Nullifier Nerf

[Rehero]

It's called a secondary. They exist. When I take my Dread out with me, I bring my Gammacor. When I take my Soma, I bring my Marelok. It's not DE's fault if people refuse to prepare adequately for missions.

You are right and I am sure everyone here brings a secondary weapon to deal with them. That said secondary weapons shouldn't be justification for a mob that serves only to punish a weapon type that isn't as efficient as the weapons that have no problem dealing with them in the first place.

 

I have yet to see an adequate reasoning as to why their shields are based primarily on number of hits over a hit point pool and why a hit point pool would cause the gameplay to change for those who don't have trouble with them anyways. It isn't like we want the game to instantly become easier but instead we would like for a specific weapon type, that isn't considered efficient anyways, to not have some unjustified counter.

 

Edit: It doesn't even have to be a hit point pool but there are so many ways to make it feel better. Like why didn't they simply assign each weapon to a specific number of counters to be taken away from the shield per hit so that they could have a flat rate for the shield to dissipate at all levels and allow them to assign an appropriate level of impact to slower firing weapons?

Edited December 26, 2014 by Rehero

[vaugahn]

You are right and I am sure everyone here brings a secondary weapon to deal with them. That said secondary weapons shouldn't be justification for a mob that serves only to punish a weapon type that isn't as efficient as the weapons that have no problem dealing with them in the first place.

 

I have yet to see an adequate reasoning as to why their shields are based primarily on number of hits over a hit point pool and why a hit point pool would cause the gameplay to change for those who don't have trouble with them anyways. It isn't like we want the game to instantly become easier but instead we would like for a specific weapon type, that isn't considered efficient anyways, to not have some unjustified counter.

 

Go to Cerberus. They are based on a hit point pool, the Void ones are just bugged right now. Actually the hit point pool in general is bugged, there's some weirdness with multishot, but I don't expect to see either of those things fixed during Christmas break.

 

I honestly don't get why people refuse to prepare appropriately for missions. It's like getting mad because you modded your gun with magnetic to fight Grineer. Just bring a secondary. It's not difficult. 

 

Alternatively, we could just balance tenno abilities so enemies don't need to have a hard counter. 

Edited December 26, 2014 by vaugahn

[-AR.Amaranthyne]

Nullifiers have already been nerfed to hell because of people whining over and over. I thought they were perfectly fine as they were originally added, but apparently nobody knew how to kill them, so they needed nerf after nerf after nerf, and now they're as useless as a prodman as far as I'm concerned. It's kind of stupid.

[Rehero]

Go to Cerberus. They are based on a hit point pool, the Void ones are just bugged right now. Actually the hit point pool in general is bugged, there's some weirdness with multishot, but I don't expect to see either of those things fixed during Christmas break.

 

I honestly don't get why people refuse to prepare appropriately for missions. It's like getting mad because you modded your gun with magnetic to fight Grineer. Just bring a secondary. It's not difficult. 

 

Alternatively, we could just balance tenno abilities so enemies don't need to have a hard counter.

I could care less about it affecting tenno abilities I actually find that particular aspect of the mob quite interesting. If nerfing tenno abilities would positively effect the game I am all for it as well since there are obvious balance flaws with warframes anyways. I just don't want to feel like all of the time I put into my vectis, when it isn't even a weapon considered all that strong, is rendered moot against a single mob that people would like to focus down, which is the snipers forte, because they didn't want to create a system that caters to all weapons instead of ones that are considered the more efficient anyways. My unmodded akzani should never be able to take anything out faster than a fully formaed/potatoed anything.

 

I think the thing that bothers me the most is just the reaction to the plea for simple changes that would only serve to benefit the lower performing weapons. I wouldn't have made this much of a deal out of it if there wasn't so many, "Just learn to play" comments as rebuttals. Secondary weapons shouldn't be a reason why a mob can hard counter inefficiency. If it was instead the mobs countering the soma prime, boltor prime, synoid gammacor and the like it becomes a different story.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Rehero

[GrimwarAlpha1]

Officer to the soldier " Here son take this bazooka.".

Soldier " No thanks I prefer my rifle.".

Officer. "The enemy are in tanks"

Soldier. "can you nerf them?"

Officer. " pull your head out of your @#$ and use a weapon that works son"

 

    I do regular solo stealth runs on my Loki . Just every now and then I put away my bow and drill the big gold orb with a short burst from my hikou prime's . They pop the orb, kill the nullifier and the guy behind him in less than one clip. Stealth play is not compromised. and I go back to one shotting everything else.

 

Difficult = Danger

Danger = fun. 

[Rehero]

Officer to the soldier " Here son take this bazooka.".

Soldier " No thanks I prefer my rifle.".

Officer. "The enemy are in tanks"

Soldier. "can you nerf them?"

Officer. " pull your head out of your @#$ and use a weapon that works son"

 

    I do regular solo stealth runs on my Loki . Just every now and then I put away my bow and drill the big gold orb with a short burst from my hikou prime's . They pop the orb, kill the nullifier and the guy behind him in less than one clip. Stealth play is not compromised. and I go back to one shotting everything else.

 

Difficult = Danger

Danger = fun. 

You are right, except loki stealth gameplay is stealth easy mode.

[GrimwarAlpha1]

You are right, except loki stealth gameplay is stealth easy mode.

yep I know. I do them mainly for quick cash. But I seen a lot of complaints about Nullifiers invalidating any stealth play style so I thought I would mention it.

[Rehero]

yep I know. I do them mainly for quick cash. But I seen a lot of complaints about Nullifiers invalidating any stealth play style so I thought I would mention it.

It does make stealth game play unnecessarily difficult when you don't have a built in "I win the stealth game". Besides the stealth comment I brought up earlier was just another example as to one of the downsides to its current mechanics. The primary issue is its punishing a weapon type unjustly.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Rehero

[GrimwarAlpha1]

It does make stealth game play unnecessarily difficult when you don't have a built in "I win the stealth game". Besides the stealth comment I brought up earlier was just another example as to one of the downsides to its current mechanics. The primary issue is its punishing a weapon type unjustly.

 

It is not punishing any weapon type. You need to use the right tool for the right job. 

[Rehero]

It is not punishing any weapon type. You need to use the right tool for the right job. 

By tool do you mean the weapon archtypes that are already considered far more efficient than the ones that have a hard time dealing with them? Its like "Oh yea you know what weapon we should cause to jump through even more hurdles? The snipers! That will show them for not using the weapons considered efficient!". 

[Kaiser_Suoh]

It's called a secondary. They exist. When I take my Dread out with me, I bring my Gammacor. When I take my Soma, I bring my Marelok. It's not DE's fault if people refuse to prepare adequately for missions.

I know Secundary weapon exist. But my problem is that Nullifiers are anti-Snipers enemies...

 

I like to use my Lanka...

 

Lanka is a Sniper...

 

Snipers are useless against Nullifier...

 

Result in "am angry". Its simple.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Kaiser_Suoh

[ravend]

You guys do know there are melee weapons right. The nullies have crap for health and go down very quickly. i have never had a problem taking them down and im in a Frost Prime while carrying the data mass. Why do people find it easier to come here and complain then change they're play style up.

[Rehero]

You guys do know there are melee weapons right. The nullies have crap for health and go down very quickly. i have never had a problem taking them down and im in a Frost Prime while carrying the data mass. Why do people find it easier to come here and complain then change they're play style up.

This has been addressed several times in this thread so far. The problem isn't the fact that people can't adapt but instead that we are being forced to adapt for no apparent reason when the playstyle we would prefer to play wasn't a problem in the first place. Why should a mobs mechanics be kept in a manner that creates further hurdles for inefficient weapons? Which is a question I still haven't seen a decent answer to.

[SleepingSentry]

"Nullifier is stronger vs snipers and bows, that's not fair, cry cry cry."

 

Bows / snipers are a bad choice for practically every mission except bosses and deep into high level endless missions, completely disregarding nullifiers.  

Just like a rocket launcher is better versus infested and large groups of enemies.  Imagine that.

 

Every weapon has its strength and weakness.  What a weird thing to complain about.

 

The reason they should nerf nullifiers is because they kill my immortal valkyr.  Now that, that isn't fair.

Edited December 26, 2014 by SleepingSentry

[Rehero]

"Nullifier is stronger vs snipers and bows, that's not fair, cry cry cry."

 

Bows / snipers are a bad choice for practically every mission except bosses and deep into high level endless missions, completely disregarding nullifiers.  

Just like a rocket launcher is better versus infested and large groups of enemies.  Imagine that.

 

Every weapon has its strength and weakness.  What a weird thing to complain about.

How contradictory. You acknowledge that snipers are bad for most missions and then say that nullifiers completely rendering them moot is valid. Yet here we have synoid gammacor, boltor prime, and soma prime tearing through them with no issues and they are already considered highly efficient. Why would you bring up strengths and weaknesses when this is only a weakness for weapons that already were innefficient? The weapons that top the damage numbers have no problem with nullifiers, why should snipers, a weapon type that has a whole slew of problems be burdened further? 

 

Edit: Also just to clarify, as you wanted to add the word nerf in a sarcastic manner to the end of your post, the cry for a nerf only took place in the original post and a nerf is not what most of us want. What we instead propose is for a mechanic rework which yields the same results for every other weapon in the game but doesn't force another hurdle on already inefficient weapons.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Rehero

[SleepingSentry]

The weapons you listed have their own weaknesses, and it's not nullifiers.  Derp.  Boltor prime is definitely not the best weapon in every situation, although it is easy to use for noobs who don't realize they have 3 weapons not 1.

Edited December 26, 2014 by SleepingSentry

[Rehero]

The weapons you listed have their own weaknesses, and it's not nullifiers.  Derp.  Boltor prime is definitely not the best weapon in every situation, although it is easy to use for noobs who don't realize they have 3 weapons not 1.

Very well. Would you agree that boltor prime, synoid gammacor, and soma prime are far more efficient weapons than any of the snipers? If so then how are you justifying snipers having another weakness when they are already inefficient?

[SleepingSentry]

If you can hit headshots no they can be better than the weapons you listed.  I'm not sure why you think a sniper rifle should be the best choice all the time.  It's like going into a small crowded room with a sniper instead of a shotgun.  Just plain silly.  The majority of the military is armed with assault rifles because they are well rounded weapons, but not the best at anything.  That's exactly how this game works, why would you expect anything else?

[Kaiser_Suoh]

"Nullifier is stronger vs snipers and bows, that's not fair, cry cry cry."

 

Bows / snipers are a bad choice for practically every mission except bosses and deep into high level endless missions, completely disregarding nullifiers.  

Just like a rocket launcher is better versus infested and large groups of enemies.  Imagine that.

 

Every weapon has its strength and weakness.  What a weird thing to complain about.

 

The reason they should nerf nullifiers is because they kill my immortal valkyr.  Now that, that isn't fair.

Sorry what?

 

Snipers/Bows never was a bad option, only if you don't know how to use it. Only Sniper/Bows will understand.

 

You are a perfect example, who knows nothing of snipers/bows.

 

Strength and weakness, again, you knows nothing of snipers/bows.

 

If you can hit headshots no they can be better than the weapons you listed.  I'm not sure why you think a sniper rifle should be the best choice all the time.  It's like going into a small crowded room with a sniper instead of a shotgun.  Just plain silly.  The majority of the military is armed with assault rifles because they are well rounded weapons, but not the best at anything.  That's exactly how this game works, why would you expect anything else?

 

Tell me that after DE release a new enemy with "anti automatic-weapon mechanics"

Edited December 26, 2014 by Kaiser_Suoh

[SleepingSentry]

Sorry what?

 

Snipers/Bows never was a bad option, only if you don't know how to use it. Only Sniper/Bows will understand.

 

You are a perfect example, who knows nothing of snipers/bows.

 

Strength and weakness, again, you knows nothing of snipers/bows.

 

Yes a gun that shoots 1 single bullet is better than something like say a flamethrower which can kill a dozen enemies all at once in the same amount of time it takes to kill 1 with a sniper.   Dread / despair, Dread / nukor are my most used combinations.  It's pretty ****ing simple.  Use secondary until the damage falls off or ammo gets low then swap to the bow.  

 

Unless a nullifier comes around then I've actually got a reason to swap weapons again.  One of the few well designed enemies which requires a change in tactics (only sometimes), depending on your frame / weapon choice.  And you guys want to take that away, because you want to be able to press 4 and use 1 gun (any gun no matter how stupid it would be to realistically use that 1 gun all the time) and that's it.  Anything more than that presents too much of a challenge.

Edited December 26, 2014 by SleepingSentry

[evilfluffy]

Kamikadze into bunch of t4 enemies under a bubble that removes all you buffs and abiliites is not a viable tactic, its a suicide. 

 

 

thats what guns are for, only a complete idiot runs straight into a bunch of enemies to kill a nullifier

I do that all the time (yes even in t4) never bothered me any.  Serious note though you can easily lower the shield to nothing and attack.

Edited December 26, 2014 by evilfluffy

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Yes a gun that shoots 1 single bullet is better than something like say a flamethrower which can kill a dozen enemies all at once in the same amount of time it takes to kill 1 with a sniper. 

All you do is give me the reason, you are saying "Snipers/Bows are bad because are not automatic weapons"

[TheErebus.]

I know Secundary weapon exist. But my problem is that Nullifiers are anti-Snipers enemies...

 

I like to use my Lanka...

 

Lanka is a Sniper...

 

Snipers are useless against Nullifier...

 

Result in "am angry". Its simple.

Would you use a handgun against a tank? No. You'd use a rocket launcher or an anti-tank weapon.

Same thing here.

 

If a weapon is in-effective against something, you switch it to something else that can kill them. 

You wouldn't use a Fire pokemon against a Water pokemon.

 

Logic 101

[Rehero]

Would you use a handgun against a tank? No. You'd use a rocket launcher or an anti-tank weapon.

Same thing here.

 

If a weapon is in-effective against something, you switch it to something else that can kill them. 

You wouldn't use a Fire pokemon against a Water pokemon.

 

Logic 101

You don't hinder what is already hindered. Instead you hinder what doesn't have as many hindrances.

 

Balance 101

[TheErebus.]

You don't hinder what is already hindered. Instead you hinder what doesn't have as many hindrances.

 

Balance 101

Again, why would you insist on weakening an enemy just so that you can use your precious sniper rifle.

Get a secondary, kill this one enemy (I'm going to say this again: ONE. ENEMY.), and then bring out the sniper rifle. It is such a minor hindrance that I cannot believe the amount of whining some say. And yeah, I said whining. I never want to say whining, but this is literally whining.