Scrap The Energy System. Replace It With Separate Cooldowns For Each Ability

[JessicaAlba]

Sorry but complacent =/= not disagreeing with things in the game (great logic there btw). The current energy system is perfectly fine so there's nothing to criticize about it. If you read some other posts of mine I have absolutley criticized things and offered up ideas for changes so you're first paragraph was actually pointless.

Are they actually "way less"? Or do they both have flaws in different areas? Just to use the "cake-walk" line a CD supporter used above, sometimes energy drops are few and far between and often people play without energy siphon, so you actually have to rely on killing things with weapons to harvest some energy, with cooldowns you allow players to just sit and hide waiting for their cooldowns and then cast powers. That in itself will lead to a great deal of frustration from people I'm sure.

Also it sounds easy as changing some text but I'm sure the re-coding to swap from an energy system to a cooldown system is no small task (coding for powers, mods that affect energy etc), and I'd rather have the devs work on actual bugs and new content then to change a system that works perfectly fine as is.

Edited May 1, 2013 by JessicaAlba

[Story4]

@Story4

I have given examples where a CD system has already failed in this game.  Please give a list of reasons definitvely of:

1) How you would balance abilities

2) How you would limit waiting outside of a room for 60 seconds for your ults to recharge

3) How you would balance ability powers with CD durations.

So far I have given examples of how it would make too many things weaker and you keep on saying "It'll only be logical to increase their power with a long CD."  Please enlighten me on how you would do that in the game to make the abilities more powerful and yet balanced against a long CD.

1) How would i balance abilities? More CD for good abilities, less for abilities that are spamable. For example 5 sec cd on superjump, pull and teleport/switch teleport, 60 seconds cool-down or more for ultimates, depending on how useful they are (60 seconds for Rhino ult, 80 for mag etc.), 30 seconds or more for middle-tire abilities like Iron skin, invisibility, Overheat etc. Basically more powerful- more CD. Less powerful-less CD. I think i explained this by saying "making abilities more powerful- longer cooldown" and through other posts and examples.

2)You can't limit that. I'd like to ask you how would you limit going back to look for energy orbs/containers to get energy if your out of it? You can't. Waiting for the cooldowns to recharge or backtracking to search for energy and/or wait a little for energy siphon to replenish takes the same amount of time. I already explained this also...

3)Basically the same as 1 isn't it? You can't balance abilities without balancing their CD duration, they go hand in hand. I also think that i explained this already through examples.

 

More powerful and balanced along a longer CD?

1st they already aren't balanced, if you believe that the cake isn't a lie.

2nd I gave you an example of Loki's decoy. It could have 20 sec cd but 10 sec duration, but it would be invincible. You could only spam it once every 20 seconds, but an upside of being there for 10 and invincible. The current decoy lasts 21 seconds but is not invincible and gets destroyed immediately by high-level mobs. 

Iron skin could have a 30 seconds CD for 15 seconds invulnerability (like it currently is), but have his Rhino charge have a larger AOE knockback with 10 sec CD for example, or shockwave with 20 sec CD but it would send enemies away from Rhino.

These are examples and numbers, they don't need to be this exact way, the devs are the ones who are going to decide on the CD eventually of course, but how would it be worse instead of always spamming Iron Skin as it currently is?

 

And i already explained all this. Getting tired of saying the same thing over and over and over again.

[Story4]

Sorry but complacent =/= not disagreeing with things in the game (great logic there btw). The current energy system is perfectly fine so there's nothing to criticize about it. If you read some other posts of mine I have absolutley criticized things and offered up ideas for changes so you're first paragraph was actually pointless.

Are they actually "way less"? Or do they both have flaws in different areas? Just to use the "cake-walk" line a CD supporter used above, sometimes energy drops are few and far between and often people play without energy siphon, so you actually have to rely on killing things with weapons to harvest some energy, with cooldowns you allow players to just sit and hide waiting for their cooldowns and then cast powers. That in itself will lead to a great deal of frustration from people I'm sure.

Also it sounds easy as changing some text but I'm sure the re-coding to swap from an energy system to a cooldown system is no small task (coding for powers, mods that affect energy etc), and I'd rather have the devs work on actual bugs and new content then to change a system that works perfectly fine as is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/complacent complacent synonim = unbothered, untroubled.  Seems good to me, whoever says that energy system is perfect the way it is is unbothered by it. I think i used correctly and english isn't even my primary language.

 

How was my paragraph pointless? I don't see you offering any reason why energy is better in your comment. You just said no.

I agree that both the CD and the energy have flaws, i have never said that they don't, but the current energy system makes a player only use 1 or 2 abilities while the others are not worth the energy cost. For example why use Rhino's ultimate when you can just use iron skin and have 30 seconds of invulnerability? No reason.

 

Similar to other warframes, but i have already said that. If separate cool-downs were implemented then you would have to think if you should use an ability and if yes when you should use it. For example if there are 5 corpus crewmen in an small corridor you could just use rhino charge instead of using iron skin because rhino charge has a lower cooldown so you can keep your iron skin and maybe even use shockwave afterwards and kill them with melee. Then you enter the next room and you instantly use Iron skin because there are 10 corpus crewmen and you can kill them until your iron skin is going to dissapear. If there still are enemies you can use rhino charge to get closer to the. I shouldn't even have to wait. This would be if a CD was implemented.

 

The way the current system implemented you would use Iron skin when you meet the first 5 crewmen, use it again against the 10 crewmen and maybe use it again if they don't die. Wow, so much more diversity with the energy system!

 

And devs already used an CD system, but from my understanding abilities weren't more powerful or useful. So it shouldn't be too hard for them to just implement the old system but tweak the CD and abilities.

 

 

@ Necrio:

What about using a 'heat' mechanic.

 

Each ability you use adds heat to the frame. Use too many of them in quick succession and you overheat, which does some bad things and renders your abilities unusable for a time period.

 

Heat goes down naturally, but moving fast helps your frame cool down faster (thanks to the air flow).

 

I... actually like this. Very much so. Though the airflow excuse is pretty silly for a high-tech warframe, but it could work.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Orimaarko]

cool downs would provide a way for the devs to balance op abilities without changing the fundamental feel or mechanic behind said op abilities (trinity comes to mind here but there are others). I like the energy system but certain abilities just feel like they need cooldowns to be balanced.

 

EDIT:

 

Addiitonally, instead of scrapping the whole system, DE could utilize a cool down mechanic on individual frames.  They could also introduce an alternative resource, like the previously mentioned heat, or using health to power abilites.  For variety I think the game could use all the differing mechanics on different warframes giving each its own personailty in terms of resource management.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Orimaarko

[Ryanshow]

@Jessica Yes i agree, "no,just no" was the most compelling argument i have ever heard. Energy is 10 times better than cool-down.

[/sarcasm]

 

@Indaroh Maybe something like Dishonored could be done? If you use an ability that costs 25 energy, the 25 energy will quickly regenerate if you don't use anything else in the mean-time. Or at least make less orbs but 25-50 energy will regenerate after each ability used?

 

Dishonored style is something I could get into. Making the orbs work like the potions as well to restore your previous max. Although they would have to be much rarer.

[neKroMancer]

So far, the discussion of CD vs Energy seemed to be ended in : "CD for ultimates have to be long thus players will be waiting around in an empty room for CD to slowly fill itself before moving to the next tile".

 

If we're going toward CD system then we better look at our next door neighbor, ME3MP. If there is anything BWdev done right about the game, it's the CD system and how they balance it in the game.

 

1. CD allows a lot more versatility in gameplay. Right now Warframe is 80%shooter and 20%power and that's something that DE already stated that they want it fixed to be more balanced between the two. However, ME3MP allows player much better versatility in term of style. It's like 50% shooter and 50%power while allowing players to customized between the two by themselves in all classes in the game.

 

2. CD come with different philosophy in power design. ME3MP actually encourages spamming ability as a part of the game in some classes. How did BW do that? Power are mostly utility more than damage. Powers that actually deal damage are generally not by itself but through combination thus giving a slower pace for caster compared to shooter since they have to at least cast two powers on the same target in order to deal 'real' damage.

 

3. Balancing power with gun. Weight system comes into play. You simply can't expect a caster to carry heavy, high DPS weapon and run around tearing everything apart. There is always a trade off when you're deciding what you want to focus on your character.

 

Now, take a look at Warframe. Currently if we're going to implement CD system into the game, we need a lot more than just balancing ability CD with damage since that is going to create slower overall gameplay. You can make Overload's CD a whole minute and multiply the damage by three fold + kill infest without DR and there will be a lot of players who are going to park their frame somewhere safe while waiting for CD to fill itself. I know I would since I have two choices.

 

1. Don't wait for CD and run around shooting things. Risk got overwhelmed and found my CD 15 second away from full while I want to cast it now.

or

2. Wait for all my abilities' CD to full first and going in gunblazing, knowing that I have a trump cards that I can use whenever I want.

 

I believe that most of us will pick the second option since revive is expensive and frankly, dying is a bit embarrassing. Showing the world that you're total PvE noob isn't my kind of relaxation.

 

If we really going to have CD in Warframe, it needs a lot of changes in power design and balance to the point that it's going to be a different game from what we have now. Shift in power design alone is game-changing already.

 

Is it doable? Yes.

 

Is it going to worth the resource doing so? Doubtful.

 

I think DE should add depth to the energy system and allow power spammers a chance to shine more than scrap the energy system and go for CD.

[Story4]

I agree with your post nekromancer. I don't mind an energy system per se, i mind how it is currently, spam just 1 ability to win.

 

I think an easier and better way would be to implement a heat mechanic like Necrio suggested. It's really good once you think about it.

[JessicaAlba]

"http://dictionary.re...owse/complacent complacent synonim = unbothered, untroubled.  Seems good to me, whoever says that energy system is perfect the way it is is unbothered by it. I think i used correctly and english isn't even my primary language."

 

What an incredible circlejerk you have going here. Once again: unbothered, untroubled =/= not disagreeing with certain things in the game. If they work fine I have no reason to complain/argue against them. The energy system is a fine example of that. If you STILL think that's complacency, I don't think any dictionary, thesaurus or english textbook can help you...

As far as your argument that powers will all of a sudden become useful with a CD in effect because people have to wait to use Iron Skin or whatever else they choose...that's grasping at straws. What makes you think because there is a cooldown in place that people will be using skills that they never use? Rhino's ultimate is very situational e.g being swarmed and needing reprieve. But an even better example would be Banshee's 'Silence', by your logic, people who are waiting for their other skills to cooldown will now have a reason to use Silence. If you think that isn't the same as Rhino's ultimate, you need to change your argument. People will use skills they deem useful at the times they deem useful, whether they use energy or require cooldowns. It's that simple.

[Story4]

" If they work fine I have no reason to complain/argue against them" seems pretty much a synonym to complacent/unbothered/not bothered so you won't complain against them. No circlejerk here, my fault you don't know the meaning? I actually showed you the meaning the in the dictionary and your still saying it's not true. You clearly have a problem admitting your wrong.

 

And people will use more skills because there will be no repercussion to not using them. Currently if you use shockwave on Rhino, which is a very weak ability compared to the cost, you won't be able to use Iron skin which is his best ability. Using anything else other than Iron Skin gives you the penalty of not being able to use the best Rhino ability. If there is a CD, especially an ability with a pretty low cd like let's say shockwave has 20 seconds, people will use it because it is cheap, low cooldown and they are not penalized for using it like the current energy system it. You can just use that against weaker enemies and keep iron skin for when you really need it.

Also please tell me one person who would use shockwave instead of iron skin on rhino with the energy system that currently is in place, one person, please.

 

@Nekromancer, forgot to say one thing, i agree that with a high cd system you will want to wait for it especially on solo, but don't you already go back to get energy orbs? I don't think that there is a time difference between them because with cd you will wait but with energy you go back and search for energy orbs.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[KaizerPrime]

The energy system gives the game a crappy feel. It's like playing an old school game where you have a few numbers of bombs that'll clear out every enemy on the screen, but you never use those bombs as "you might need it for later". Then you get hit by an A****** ancient disrupter and your 350 energy is now 0

[Thypari2013]

Well, I read most of the posts and I understand both sides. And noth sides have cons and pros.

Here is an alternative way of solving most of the problems:

 

 

To not confuse anybody lets call the system "Solar-System" instead of Energy or Power, so it is clear I mean something new.

Every Warframe has a Solar-System with a maxmium amount of Solar-Power and a base amount of Solar-Regen.

Solar-Regen regenerates (who thought it would do that?!) your current amount of Solar-Power as long as you haven't used an ability.

If you use an ability Solar-Regen is disabled for a short duration depending on the ability used. Let's call it "Solar-Downtime". Solar-Downtime can be added up by using skills very fast after each other. Using the same ability more often will double the Solar-Downtime from that ability. Abilities use Solar-Power.

 

e.g.

Excalibur has 100 maximum Solar-Power and a Solar-Regen of 10/s.

Slash Dash consumes 20Solar-Power and has a Solar-Downtime of 2s.

Super Jump consumes 10Solar-Power and has a Solar-Downtime of 1s.

Radial Blind consumes 35Solar-Power and has a Solar-Downtime of 3s.

Radial Javelin consumes 50Solar-Power and has a Solar Downtime of 5s.

 

As you can see the Player can now Combo different abilities together or just spam 1 ability many times. Either way the Solar-Downtime adds up. Leaving the Tenno unable to gain Solar-Power for a few seconds. To negotiate this effect, he can either decide to fight with weapons until the Solar Downtime is over or try to use the abilities slower after each other.

 

Example1

Excalibur using Slash Dash frequently until his Solar Power is too low to spam it:

5x Slash Dash - Solar-Downtime doubles everytime the same ability is used again: 2+4+8+16+32 = 62s Solar-Downtime
The player did massive damage in a short time to the enemies but at the cost to have to wait a full minute until his Solar-Regen is acive again.

Example2

This time Excalibur uses Slash Dash but uses Super Jump in between:
2x Slash Dash, 1x Super Jump, 2x Slash Dash total: 2+4+1+2+4 = 13s Solar-Downtime

 

Example3

In the last example I will show you an Excalibur mainting his Solar-Downtime by waiting a short time after using an ability. I will add the current amount of power behind the single Solar-Downtime seconds, because I won't use it all up at once duo to the waiting time:

1x Slash Dash, wait 3s, 1x Radial Blind, 1x Slash Dash, wait 7s, 1x Radial Javelin 

total: 2sd(80sp)>3s wait(90sp)>3sd(55sp)+2sd(35sp)>7s wait(55sp)>5s(5sp)

 

 

Pros:

Fast paced Energy replacement system, without the need of picking up orbs or waiting until the cooldowns are done.

Resolves the problem of a spamming abilities loop, pick up orbs from the dead bodies, and continue spamming.

Very tactical; You have to decide your combo to fit into your situation. (spam a lot but high Downtime / maintain abilities / negotiate downtime with weapons)

New Modifications which increase Solar-Power, derease Solar-Power Cost, decrease Solar-Downtime or increase Solar-Regen.

Cons:

Hard to master.

New players will have a hard time to know how the current downtime was calculated.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Thypari2013

[Fredlicious]

Why not cooldowns and energy? Make the cooldowns short enough that it doesn't make sense to stop and wait between rooms, but long enough to encourage players to use a larger subset of their skills in longer fights.

[Story4]

 

 

Hmm interesting system, but the numbers need a little tweaking. I actually like it myself, it would be a better addition than the current system anyway.

Only thing is that people would still probably spam just the best ability, but at least you can also cast other abilities with not such a harsh penalty. I'm saying this because someone could use just Iron Skin and before it is ended your solar-power would have regenerated again.

 

Actually I'm beginning to like the idea of heat a little more. Hear me out a little and post your feed-back.

So let's say that you have 100 maximum heat on Rhino. RC and SH consume 15 heat, IS consumes 30 and ultimate 50. The more you spam your abilities, the more heat you get, but after you hit 100 heat you can't use any abilities anymore for a few seconds. Instead, the heat decreases incrementally. It takes 3 seconds for the cool-down to start and it decreases by 5 every second until it reaches 90% heat, then by 10 every second until 50% heat and then by 15 every second until it is cooled down.

This way you can spam all you want, the abilities can remain as powerful as they are but you'll have to gauge your heat so that you don't get caught without at least 30 heat cooled down.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Tsukinoki]

Why not cooldowns and energy? Make the cooldowns short enough that it doesn't make sense to stop and wait between rooms, but long enough to encourage players to use a larger subset of their skills in longer fights.

So a hybrid system where you have 1 free cast of an ability every X seconds, but if you cast it during its cooldown it costs its normal energy cost to use?

I can honestly see that working more than a standard CD system and gives you the choice: Spam your abilities or spread them out to use them for free.

It avoids the pitfalls of everyone waiting for their abilities to refresh, and allows an easier time balancing their use.

[Thypari2013]

[...]

 

This is basicaly my idea. But I didn't call it "Heat" cause some hardcore / elitist players knowing League Of Legends would immidietly say things like "THIS AINT LOL GTFO. ENERGY IS FINE!!"

But this would be a better system than energy or cooldowns for such a fast paced coop game like Warframe.

[Story4]

This is basicaly my idea. But I didn't call it "Heat" cause some hardcore / elitist players knowing League Of Legends would immidietly say things like "THIS AINT LOL GTFO. ENERGY IS FINE!!"

But this would be a better system than energy or cooldowns for such a fast paced coop game like Warframe.

 

Kinda, but not really. In your idea the more you spam the longer the cooldown until it regenerates. It also regenerates at a steady pace. With heat, the more you use your abilities the more heat you gather, but it takes 3 seconds, which is a constant, for the cool-down to begin and the cool-down is not constant, the more you wait the more it cools down.

Although i must say that they are similar, i can't really know which one is better until they have been tested.

Also i am a LoL player and if anyone comments they can go splash some water on their face. It's an old mechanic used in many games before it, even Mass Effect for example (the first one). It's like CoD players saying other games are rip-offs of CoD, when CoD is a rip-off of something else.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Necrio]

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

 

Back to heat, another advantage it has from energy is that, in a pinch, even with high heat the player can still use any skill at the cost of overheating.

 

There should be another downside to overheating as well to make that emergency use a tougher decision. I was going to suggest slower movement but that won't work.

[Story4]

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

 

Back to heat, another advantage it has from energy is that, in a pinch, even with high heat the player can still use any skill at the cost of overheating.

 

There should be another downside to overheating as well to make that emergency use a tougher decision. I was going to suggest slower movement but that won't work.

 

Maybe if you overheat your shields don't regenerate until you cool-down completely. That would be an interesting thing. Or maybe they could go down actually at a steady rate? or something like that. I think it would be nice to tie it to the shields.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Thypari2013]

Con of your Heat System:

* Players can still only equip 1 ability and spam it endless. there is no difference in using 1ability 4 times or 4 different abilitys>> Doesn't solve one of the initial problems

*  Rhino Iron Skin Problem: Use it generates heat. When it is over, heat is already at 0 again. Repeat indefinitely thanks to your 3s constant. In my solution the Solar-Downtime is reliable on the ability and would be for Iron Skin: Iron Skin duration + 3s.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Thypari2013

[modded]

The reason I dislike the cooldown suggestion is that it will ruin a LOT of combos.

 

As Loki, I can spam decoy and switch teleport to get a mate to cover when they're about to die, without killing myself in the process.

As Loki, I can invis, run into a cluster of enemies and use my ult, taking heat of my mates without killing me.

As Volt, I can save my team on Corpus defense by using speed to get to them then overload to clear the area.

As Volt, I can protect weak mates by dropping 2 shields to protect them from multiple angles.

As Rhino, I can save my team on infested defense by popping iron skin, rushing a group of 10 ancients, then using my ult.

 

Without combos, I can't do any of that. That's why I dislike CD's. It also takes the risk out of things. I can spam stuff now, and risk not regaining it. With a CD, I can use whatever I want knowing I'll get it again in just a little while. Make Frost and Rhino even better since they can tank bullets while they cooldown, right?

[Story4]

Ah yes i agree. Forgot about that. But while you are on iron skin you can't spam it and you should use something else and iron skin lasts for 15 seconds. The same problem is with your idea too, even if it has a 3 sec delay to regeneration, solar power will still regenerate until the 15 seconds are up.

 

Con of your Heat System:

* Players can still only equip 1 ability and spam it endless. there is no difference in using 1ability 4 times or 4 different abilitys>> Doesn't solve one of the initial problems

*  Rhino Iron Skin Problem: Use it generates heat. When it is over, heat is already at 0 again. Repeat indefinitely thanks to your 3s constant. In my solution the Solar-Downtime is reliable on the ability and would be for Iron Skin: Iron Skin duration + 3s.

 

@modded, actually, a CD would still allow you to do those things and will actually promote combos. We aren't talking a common CD, we are talking separate CD.

In your Rhino example it would actually more effective to spam iron skin again instead of your ult since your ult has a very low stasis and if you stay longer inside the infested(i'm guessing your example was) with iron skin the more they will attack you and not the team-mates. Also you waste 30 seconds of invulnerability on an ult that does only 9 seconds of stasis. This is with the current energy system.

In separate CD, you will use iron skin and then you will pretty much have to use your other abilities if you want to be of any help and you won't feel punished for using them since you used them when you needed them. You will feel punished if you use it when you don't need them, for example using ult for an ancient disruptor instead of your rhino charge, when the boss is in the next room.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Thypari2013]

Ah yes i agree. Forgot about that. But while you are on iron skin you can't spam it and you should use something else and iron skin lasts for 15 seconds. The same problem is with your idea too, even if it has a 3 sec delay to regeneration, solar power will still regenerate until the 15 seconds are up.

 

 

@modded, actually, a CD would still allow you to do those things and will actually promote combos. We aren't talking a common CD, we are talking separate CD.

In your Rhino example it would actually more effective to spam iron skin again instead of your ult since your ult has a very low stasis and if you stay longer inside the infested(i'm guessing your example was) with iron skin the more they will attack you and not the team-mates. Also you waste 30 seconds of invulnerability on an ult that does only 9 seconds of stasis. This is with the current energy system.

In separate CD, you will use iron skin and then you will pretty much have to use your other abilities if you want to be of any help and you won't feel punished for using them since you used them when you needed them. You will feel punished if you use it when you don't need them, for example using ult for an ancient disruptor instead of your rhino charge, when the boss is in the next room.

 

I said the Solar-Downtime will be the duration of Iron Skin (15s) + extra 3s = 18s.

Lets say Iron Skin cost 35 Solar-Power. You use it the first time and after its duration you still have 3s on Solar Downtime so you are still at 65 current Solar Power. If you use it again you are at 30Solar Power and because you used twice the same ability you would now have a Solar Downtime of 2x18s = 36s. So after the duration of the 2. Iron Skin you are still at 30 Solar Power and have 21s left without Solar-Regen.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Thypari2013

[Story4]

I said the Solar-Downtime will be the duration of Iron Skin (15s) + extra 3s = 18s.

Lets say Iron Skin cost 35 Solar-Power. You use it the first time and after its duration you still have 3s on Solar Downtime so you are still at 65 current Solar Power. If you use it again you are at 30Solar Power and because you used twice the same ability you would now have a Solar Downtime of 2x18s = 36s. So after the duration of the 2. Iron Skin you are still at 30 Solar Power and have 21s left without Solar-Regen.

 

Ah i see, i did not understand that from your post, sorry if i misinterpreted. I think it would be pretty good, but what happens if you use Rhino Charge or Shockwave immediately after you use Iron Skin? Does it add to the iron skin cool-down or does it do something like, you are at 65 solar power while in iron skin, use rhino charge for 15 power and then after 1 sec it regenerates to 65 but doesn't go further until your iron skin CD is done? Just curious :).

[zirephoenix]

""Furthermore no matter how low the CD there are some abilities that just wont be used much if at all.  Take Excalibur's super jump.  Even if it had a 1 second CD would anyone honestly start using that ability?  Same for the current version of Ash's teleport, with a short CD it would be teleport to enemies more often and get hit in the face before I can do anything.  How would you make abilities like super jump worth the waste in mod points on the warframe by making it on a CD timer?"
 

Super Jump has to give me 25 energy before I'll waste mod slots to use it.  That's how bad I think it is :D

[Thypari2013]

Ah i see, i did not understand that from your post, sorry if i misinterpreted. I think it would be pretty good, but what happens if you use Rhino Charge or Shockwave immediately after you use Iron Skin? Does it add to the iron skin cool-down or does it do something like, you are at 65 solar power while in iron skin, use rhino charge for 15 power and then after 1 sec it regenerates to 65 but doesn't go further until your iron skin CD is done? Just curious :).

 

I use Iron Skin so I am now at 65 Solar-Power and 18s Solar-Downtime. Using now any other ability will cost the ability's Solar Power and adds the ability's Solar-Downtime.

 

e.g. Rhino Charge (15Solar Power; 2s Solar-Downtime):  You will now be at 50 Solar Power and 18s + 2s = 20s Solar-Downtime.

 

It is clear that Warframes having "overtime" abilities have higher Downtimes as well.