Petition (Or Discussion!) To Remove Or Redesign The Grineer Rollers

[Emotitron]

Has it occured to anyone that instead they should be asking for difficulty settings rather than trying to 'tweak' marginal content as if it is endgame content? If some people are having more difficulty than fun with content that others are finding too easy - then the issue isn't 'nerf this/buff that', the issue is that the game needs a way to adjust to the players.

[RealityMachina]

Fine.

 

Nerf or remove roller balls.

Nerf Ancients.

Nerf Rhino.

Nerf Trinity.

Nerf the Gorgon.

Nerf whatever else I have forgotten seeing requested over the last couple days.

 

And when they are done with all of that let's see what is left of the game.

Well, his argument anyway but I hope you get my point.

[Emotitron]

@Emotitron

And how is fixing a broken mechanic a nerf?

 

 

Cuz it ain't broken.

[Emotitron]

Well, his argument anyway but I hope you get my point.

 

And please stop spamming forums with graphics.

[Tsukinoki]

@Emotitron
So its not broken to be able to shut down most bosses with stuns so that they just stand there waiting for you to kill them?

its not broken that you can be stunlocked by a single enemy indefinately?

Please tell me how neither of those cases show that the stun mechanic is broken.

[MoonicusMaximus]

Very few here want Rollers completely removed. There are several ways of improving Rollers to remove their more despised mechanics while keeping their gameplay-altering benefits. They are a special unit, like Heavy Gunners and Ancients, and should be kept that way, but currently, stunlocking mechanics keep them from improving by basically locking them into that singular role.

I believe that Rollers should only impart a stagger effect on players when connecting with their actual leaping attack with blades extended. As they are now, hitbox collision is all Rollers need to stagger Tenno, and this can be more troublesome than is proportional to the effort expended dealing with them, especially in large groups. If Rollers only impart a stagger effect on their leap attack, they would still maintain their ability to disrupt players while keeping within limits of reason pertaining to chances of stunlock occuring, as their leap attacks are not nearly as frequent as them just rolling underfoot, without actually having acquired Tenno as targets for a leap.

Stunlock mechanics in general are too black-and-white as they are now; you're either performing well and are never stunned for more than a second, or you are stunlocked by multiple enemies for long periods of time with not chance of escape. It's meant as a punishment and an incentive for players not to be struck by stun-capable enemies, but this needs to be addressed as it's too punishing to players as it is now. There are several suggestions in the thread already about dealing with the issue of stunlock.

Right now, Rollers are built entirely around their ability to disrupt, but if their leap attack were it's only way to impart the stagger effect, it would leave room for DE to add more layers to the Roller instead of simply 'small and fast unit, disruption with low damage;. Perhaps the leap attack can actually do damage now in addition to a stunning effect, because as they are now, Rollers do next to no damage whatsoever and cannot be an actual threat to Tenno by themselves. If it's not relying solely on its ability to stagger players on simple touch, DE could have more reason to make them more mobile as well; maybe they be changed to be able to scale terrain now, to compensate for their constant problem of terrain clipping. Maybe they can climb on walls as well in order to reach Tenno better and actually fulfill their purpose of keeping up with speedy Tenno and harassing them until other slow Grineer units can catch up.

There are plenty of ways to make Rollers more interesting while still keeping their limited ability to disrupt players, but as they are now, they rely too much on simple stagger and stun mechanics to make more difficult/challenging without making them overpowered and disproportionate to the amount of effort one needs to deal with them. I would gladly reduce their disruptive ability (but not completely remove it) to have them present more interesting variety to the normal Grineer gameplay.

Edited May 14, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[RealityMachina]

And please stop spamming forums with graphics.

I will as soon as you stop saying the most hiliariously stupid things I have ever seen during a beta of a game.

.

[Tsukinoki]

@MoonicusMaximus
I agree completely.

There is so much that could be done once they fix the stunlocking.  Allow them to scale walls and boxes to better chase tenno.  Allow them to drop in from above with little warning.  Give them something so that they are engaging to fight.  I would gladly have them deal more damage if they could no longer stunlock me.  And if they could deal damage they would better fit in with the grineer anyways.

If they fix the biggest issue with them they can then work on making them a good enemy.  And once they start making the enemies fun, challenging and dynamic then we could have a far better game on our hands then we do currently.  But in order to make them a good enemy they have to fix what is broken about them.

[ValhaHazred]

There is so much that could be done once they fix the stunlocking.  Allow them to scale walls and boxes to better chase tenno.  Allow them to drop in from above with little warning.  Give them something so that they are engaging to fight.  I would gladly have them deal more damage if they could no longer stunlock me.  And if they could deal damage they would better fit in with the grineer anyways.

 

That sounds fun! Could they violently explode when killed? That would be amazing. No knockdown though, just heavy damage.

[Tsukinoki]

@ValhaHazred
That would also make them more imperative to stay away from instead of relying on un-interruptable melee attacks.  And it would further cement them in their role.  If they are supposed to chase you out of cover make it so that they can actually chase you out by being dangerous to have them die near you.  It would also make it more important to target them early and kill them before they get to you.

Since this is a thread also about redesigning them, then why not try to come up with ways that would make the rollers unique and fun to fight while also challenging.  Make them a threat but remove the broken mechanic.  Shouldn't be that hard to come up with ideas.

[Qeveren]

Replace rollers with loud-beeping, flashing-light Grineer grenades that, when they go off, do the shockwave MOA thing and blow you out of cover.  Cover problem solved.

[JJ842]

Stuff

 

Agree completely, rollers are just a pain to deal with right now & these are great suggestions.

[Emotitron]

I will as soon as you stop saying the most hiliariously stupid things I have ever seen during a beta of a game.

.

 

And I am done with this conversation. Forums win again.

[Madotsuki]

@RealityMachina

Those pictures made my day XD A shining beacon of humor in a sea of flames, rage and denial. Do post more, it's a refreshing sight.

 

Also, I'm happy to inform you all that my poll has finally hit 1000+ voters! I'll be starting my own thread addressing these findings then. Thank you to MJ12 for providing reasons supporting my poll better than I ever could.

 

edit: it's up: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/44432-poll-results-869-of-players-want-rollers-tweakedremoved/

Edited May 14, 2013 by Madotsuki

[Icemugz]

the stun locking from these balls are extremely irritating, kinda like jockey from L4D, jumping around pissing ppl off.

- it is almost impossible to shoot them with rifles without spraying if they ever gets close to you (which happens most of the time when u discover them)

- results in wasting of bullets and they did not drop a single magazine cartridge or mana balls

- unless you are wielding a heavy weapon, u can never dish out decent melee combos with them around

- one is bad enough but they often comes in multiple units

 

therefore i suggest various ways to 'improving' their battle style like previous players has suggested beforehand:

- make a damage counter for them, expires when they have attacked successfully attacked for a certain number of times.

- killing them will drop energy ball or health ball if possible (since they are also balls)

- introduce a charge timer for them before attacking, players are able to have a chance to aim and kill them.

- make them neutral such that they will stun lock opponents as well.

 

i am not saying to implement every pointers but at least somewhere along that line to make our battles slighter easier.

i am getting used to the balls but sometimes they just piss me off especially with a group of them bouncing around me at the start of the mission where we have not much power to spam skills on them. 

[Madotsuki]

the stun locking from these balls are extremely irritating, kinda like jockey from L4D, jumping around &!$$ing ppl off.

Except the L4D franchise was conceptually focused on forcing the team to stick together if they wanted to survive, as the player characters were just normal humans with guns with no kung fu or military training or special powers. And even then, jockeys were large enough targets to shoot at reliably, they could be counter-staggered with a simple shove, they make extremely obvious laughing sounds from across half the map, they have to specifically pounce in order to jock people instead of just disabling players on touch, and even if it jocked someone it could be knocked off by a single shove. So while I get your point, and i'm not disagreeing with you on the other points, Jockeys are actually STILL BETTER ENEMIES than Rollers.

[Tsukinoki]

@Madotsuki
I think it would be hard to find an enemy that is at the same level as the rollers.  They abuse a broken mechanic.  They move quickly.  They are smaller than any other enemy.  They have a flat DR and not just armor (even though they die in one or two shots at higher levels this is something that not many enemies have).

Even the supporters tips on how to deal with them are mainly: Abuse terrain/use AOE powers.  For an enemy with their health and damage it shouldn't require either of those to handle/make less annoying.  All they really seem to be is an annoyance to waste your energy on, which has never really been a good enemy concept in games.

[AndryB94]

Guys, I have an idea. Please comment/upvote if you agree with it.

I vote to re-write this thread, but gathering -all- of the ideas, and small essences of the discussions that happened. This will prevent people from being turned off by the 21 pages here (16 of them being utter bullS#&$) and also remove the "controversial" title that I gave the thread.
[EDIT] You can all add to the topic afterwards, or you can tell/message me what you want me to write, in every detail, and I will add it to the first post. I will credit you for your support and idea :)

We can continue the discussion there more peacefully. Also chances are DE mods/admins/devs will read that thread, not this one... For obvious reasons.

Edited May 14, 2013 by AndryB94

[Nedwin]

You know what guys?

I found nice little thingie:

-YOU DON'T GET STUNLOCKED BY ROLLERS.

^^^read this 5 times, and understand it.^^^

I got trapped with 7 rollers in 1 room on Kappa mobile defense, went in corner to "check" stunlock and all the rollers didn't kill me. Because each time roller attack you, he make a little circle around the room and goes for another attack.

 

Roller doesn't stunlock you until:

a) AI getting bugged ( when you get invisibility by Shade) - roller continue to attack/stay and stunlock you in corners

b) Roller stuck in textures with you.

^^These circumstances are very rare, you will almost never get stunlocked.

It's too easy to overcome them.

If you got stunlocked because of a) or b) - make a bugreport. You will help yourself and devs

Edited May 14, 2013 by Nedwin

[xection9]

what annoys me the most they are highly accurate, the cheapest enemy ever in my gaming history.

[apostateCourier]

Another point of contention: does it really feel right that the greatest problem a space ninja has to deal with is a metal basketball?  No.  No, it doesn't.  When I get knocked down by a Heavy Gunner, I'm okay with it because 1. I shouldn't have gotten that close without an anti-stun ability up, and 2. those guys are really big and it makes sense that they can do that.  I'm NOT okay with getting casually murdered by metal basketballs contact-damage style, without their actual attack animation mattering in the slightest.

[MrBigFloppyDisk]

Why not just make them bigger ?

The whole point is that they are impossible to hit...bigger = easier to hit!

[Snowball]

Am I the only one who thinks they're kinda cute, would love to have one as my sentinel, and laughs myself half to death watching my team spinning around in circles trying to shoot them?

 

I would have to be standing in front of the toilet because I would be pissing myself laughing.

[GoneM4d]

Hate rollers? Get DEATHCUBE! Still having issues? NOT ROLLERS FAULT!

[AndryB94]

PLEASE DON'T START THIS TOPIC AGAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNN