Petition (Or Discussion!) To Remove Or Redesign The Grineer Rollers

[AndryB94]

learn better  skills run with better players ,and yes suck it up,deal with it , and get better as a player make smarter choices in your future  . A slight challenge ..rollers .lol..plz you should quit if they are so tough to over come..And stop making false  exuberant statements, abuseing neg rep system with such a sad temportanrum of a poor rebutle , truely a pathetic nature of your character ,your criticism is more harm than good. They are hear to stay have a nice time:) enjoy the rollers.

You are the kind of people I hoped I would never see me on my thread. You can speak your opinion as much as you want, but do NOT directly attack other people. Keep your personal opinions [about other players] to yourself.

 

 

Marry me.

[11.11.11]

Just to round-out my contribution to this thread. 

 

Good discussion - a little heated at times, but I think we managed to cover nearly all the points to be made on grinders in their current form. I'm not really sure much of a conclusion was drawn - it still feels like we're split amoungst the camps of "grinders a fine, they make for a challenge" and "grinders are inherently flawed please fix them". But maybe with more threads, and a bit more time, some sort of consensus will be reached.

 

Once again I'd like to remind anyone visiting this thread, to check the first two pages. A lot of good suggestions for possible solutions were posted in these early pages, and are well worth a read. 

 

I'd like to thank all those that contributed to the discussion, particularly Moonicus. I may disagree with him/her, but they presented their points in a calm logical fashion and that I can respect. There is a rather ugly trend, both in these forums, and online in general - for all discussions to devolve into arguments - which isn't really constructive in the least. 

 

So far the Warframe forums seem to be keeping it's head above this murky, fetid water, but I'd like to direct as many as possible to this episode of the Jimquistion, which outlines the issue very well: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7196-Boob-Wars-and-Dragon-Crowns

 

 

 

So lets keep these threads focused on discussion not arguments Tenno. And may the Lotus be ever with you! 

[ThatDarnPony]

I had to farm Saryn parts.  This was not a fun thing.  Eventually, the involvement of rollers got so bad I had to solo the boss several times because friends would actually refuse to play the level because of the unlimited spawns the boss has, and they would vote for another level.

 

In other words, yes, these things (as they are) detract from the game in such a way people will actively avoid them, prioritize them over much more worthwhile targets, waste ubers just trying to get out of situations involving them, and actually cause forum arguments on their worth.  While I can't say this was the intent of the devs for this enemy, the fact that Rollers exist with their current reputation means something is quietly wrong with them (and now, loudly).

 

While looking over the suggestions, I spotted a few ideas I initially thought of.  However, none really involved the thing I like this game for the most, and what seems to be frustrating players.  This game has fantastic freedom of movement.  The tenno know how to roll to mitigate falling impacts, dodge bullets, and vertically scale walls using only their feet. When did these genetically engineered space-ninja's forget how to quickly get up off the floor?  When did they lose the ability to retain their balance to a strong shove, while absorbing bullets to the face?

 

Imagine a quick-recovery option from getting slammed.  It would take stamina, sure, and wouldn't be a counter-attack from the ground. Just a quick crouch-button+jump combo to pop back up while having a minor stun invulnerability.  You would still take damage from attacks, but you'd be back up and ready to respond instead of being locked down and useless to your teammates for the duration of the knockdown.  You'd have control again; if you DIDN'T do the move, it's your own damn fault. You wouldn't need to resort to the overpowered "stand on box" Tenno special technique with rollers, either.  This could be applied in every single situation involving such things, like heavy grineer ground shockwaves, moa shockwaves, riot shield backhands, etc.

 

As for the staggers, I imagine adding some capacity to defend against this with the block button would be mighty handy; press block at the right time, you cause your own stagger on the attacker (knock away, in the case of rollers; to avoid spamming have an internal cooldown of a couple seconds or a high stam cost). Hits that would otherwise stagger you would not stagger the enemy if you just ran around holding the block button, and drain stamina per hit, so you'd have to use it carefully or run the risk of having to walk out of a mess.  Imagine making a bad call on block-wading through a horde of infested.  Then, imagine making a good call on hitting the block button when that roller tries to butterfly kiss your helmet, or against that teleporting grineer that just popped into your sniping scope and already has his home-run swing primed.

 

TL;DR:  it's not that the staggers and knockdowns from these things are inherently unfair.  It's not being able to recover or defend against them that is annoying.  I understand that it was meant as a mechanic to make some enemies more dangerous, and force your teammates to try and help you.  However, if the only defense is "just don't get hit in the first place," this is an artificial difficulty when the devs can, instead, add more tricks to the players arsenal.

[Sniktch]

Moonicus:

 

You have a flaw in your logic.

 

Rollers do NOT move in straight lines in my experience - they zig-zag, circle, orbit, and vector into you on odd, elliptical trajectories UNLESS you are moving directly away from their current position in a straight line yourself.  The most common first sight I have on a roller is them going across my field of view before making a brutally sharp turn to curve back towards my flank - if I begin to track on them, they blink-and-you'll-miss-it turn back across my FOV and home in on the opposite flank.  Once they get the first hit in, they immediately start an "orbit" turn that will, within 2 seconds tops, put their aura into contact with you again.  And the stagger takes half that time.

 

And I'm sorry to say, you are in the minority by my experience.  The folks I play with despise Infested at all levels and Grineer whenever rollers are present - because watching your Tenno stagger about like he's had a few too many is not fun.  Can we survive it?  Sure.  Do we enjoy it?  No.  And yes, we ALL know about the AI flaws that are exploitable..but we play games to feel empowered.  Jumping on a box every couple of minutes does not make us feel like bad-&#! space ninjas.  It makes us feel like Granny Perkins seeing a mouse. 

 

They don't need to be made "easier".  They need to be made less frustrating - Rollers AND the "nothing but stun and knock" Infested.

 

And for the record, I ride a Rhino, so it's not about any of the above "killing" me - I die once every couple of days at most, and usually when I do something stupid like not being quick enough on the 2 button while Rambo'ing a big swarm of gunners.  It's about the emotion involved - I get killed like that, I kick myself, and try to sharpen my skills and/or timing.  I get stunlocked for a significant amount of time by rollers or Infested and survive, it leaves me annoyed, grumpy, and ready to close the game, because they remove player agency.

[DaveC]

As of now they're just horribly hard-to-hit stunlockers. Their only purpose is to annoy you to death, especially while other Grineer are shooting at you.

They are quite hard to avoid. Slower frames may not be able to outrun them. Unless you're very good, they can even interrupt one of your jump attacks, and they're almost impossible to hit with melee. You can get them with ranged if they are coming straight towards you and you have a Lex, or you have a very very good aim.

I am honestly not a big fan of them, but I can understand why they're here. I'll admit it, I don't have many ideas on what they could be replaced by, or how they could be redesigned (at least not for now). If somebody with better ideas than me wants to join in, you're more than welcome!

 

So let me get it right....on an already too easy game...you want it even easier.. I don't understand what people want out of gaming now, is it absolutely no challenge at all and a game that you cant lose at, almost plays itself.

 

You appear to, want anything slightly troublesome  removed....my 10 year old daughter has a computer game that's something to do with pink ponies that prance about, perhaps that game would be more to your liking?

[AndryB94]

So let me get it right....on an already too easy game...you want it even easier.. I don't understand what people want out of gaming now, is it absolutely no challenge at all and a game that you cant lose at, almost plays itself.

 

You appear to, want anything slightly troublesome  removed....my 10 year old daughter has a computer game that's something to do with pink ponies that prance about, perhaps that game would be more to your liking?

Wow, wow, wow. Calm down.

How many times do I have to repeat it: This is a discussion topic (i know the title is misleading, but just read through all the comments). I actually don't want them straight-out removed - I'd rather have a replacement or some sort of modification to them.

Now, if you want to add your own opinion, you're welcome. But keep that tone and you may as well just go away from this thread.

[11.11.11]

So let me get it right....on an already too easy game...you want it even easier.. I don't understand what people want out of gaming now, is it absolutely no challenge at all and a game that you cant lose at, almost plays itself.

 

You appear to, want anything slightly troublesome  removed....my 10 year old daughter has a computer game that's something to do with pink ponies that prance about, perhaps that game would be more to your liking?

 

 

Are any of said ponies called "Pinkie Pie"? Because then I might be interested.

 

Seriously - your post is not part of a discussion. It's at best a statement, worst - an angry rant. We understand your perspective, but this forum is for intelligent discussion - not poiting out how illogical or stupid you think people are. 

[stacey69]

Rollers are fun and fine. They just shouldn't be in the game at such a low level because its only new players who complain about them. If DE nerf this game anymore I am leaving and wont come back.

 

If it stuns or stumbles you... Kill it. Ignore the low damage mobs and kill the stunners in Warframe, always.

 

Run around them as they come at you, or let them hit you once so its forces them into a straight line motion and as they come at you, you aim just below them. Easy kills all day long.

 

Enough nerfs. Just remove the stuff people complain about like rollers and ice maps and only add this stuff to end game material. This game needs balancing. Not new weapons every week. The end game is awful if it even exists.

 

New planet please at level 75 minimum, ice levels (half shields) and a huge roller ball boss that farts out baby roller balls. Do this and ill make a video and leave Skype open so you can hear everyone pissing themselves laughing. Roller balls are fun !

 

Long live TEH roller balls of death !

[Depar]

 

New planet please at level 75 minimum, ice levels (half shields) and a huge roller ball boss that farts out baby roller balls. Do this and ill make a video and leave Skype open so you can hear everyone &!$$ing themselves laughing. Roller balls are fun !

 

Long live TEH roller balls of death !

grinner roller ball boss? that would be awesome :D

 

we should really mention it to the staff

Edited May 4, 2013 by Depar

[Chichi.Yosimase]

So let me get it right....on an already too easy game...you want it even easier.. I don't understand what people want out of gaming now, is it absolutely no challenge at all and a game that you cant lose at, almost plays itself.

 

You appear to, want anything slightly troublesome  removed....my 10 year old daughter has a computer game that's something to do with pink ponies that prance about, perhaps that game would be more to your liking?

 

Of course it's an easy game.. So I apologize that everyone is not as l337 as you.

[Huitzil]

So let me get it right....on an already too easy game...you want it even easier.. I don't understand what people want out of gaming now, is it absolutely no challenge at all and a game that you cant lose at, almost plays itself.

 

You appear to, want anything slightly troublesome  removed....my 10 year old daughter has a computer game that's something to do with pink ponies that prance about, perhaps that game would be more to your liking?

The phrase "So let me get this right..." or "So let me get this straight..." in an argument means "I am about to lie about what you just said, even though everyone can see what you said and everyone will know I am lying."

[MoonicusMaximus]

Moonicus:

 

You have a flaw in your logic.

 

Rollers do NOT move in straight lines in my experience - they zig-zag, circle, orbit, and vector into you on odd, elliptical trajectories UNLESS you are moving directly away from their current position in a straight line yourself.  The most common first sight I have on a roller is them going across my field of view before making a brutally sharp turn to curve back towards my flank - if I begin to track on them, they blink-and-you'll-miss-it turn back across my FOV and home in on the opposite flank.  Once they get the first hit in, they immediately start an "orbit" turn that will, within 2 seconds tops, put their aura into contact with you again.  And the stagger takes half that time.

 

When engaging you for an actual attack, Rollers will always take the most direct path towards you, which is a straight line, after which when they reach a certain distance from you they will go into the leap animation, small blades extended. It doesn't matter the distance, Rollers on an aggressive pass will forgo any sort of dodge movements for simply rollings straight at you. Normally after a pass is made against a Tenno, however, there is a period of time where the Roller is NOT making an engagement pass at you, and is instead attempting to turn around through different methods, such as circles, u-turns and whatnot. The distance at which the Roller does this is normally always the same, a good 10m or so in-game distance, but it can be changed when obstructions like boxes or walls are present in the path of the Roller. The period of time in which a single Roller engages and disengages before reengaging again is always shorter than the stagger it produces from its attack unless an outside obstruction is involved, in which case you are essentially in a bad position to be combating that Roller and should consider your options.

 

What you are explaining is most likely the non-aggressive turning phase, not the Roller's actual attacking motions. Currently, Rollers will still stagger you even if they are not making a direct effort to with their straightforward attack. I'm not entirely for or against the fact that Rollers that are not leaping at you can still stagger you with a touch, but I do think that it could possibly be removed in favor of staggers only happening when the Roller is actually making an effort to attack you. Otherwise, you're just stepping on them and are being tripped up in the process.

 

 

And I'm sorry to say, you are in the minority by my experience.  The folks I play with despise Infested at all levels and Grineer whenever rollers are present - because watching your Tenno stagger about like he's had a few too many is not fun.  Can we survive it?  Sure.  Do we enjoy it?  No.  And yes, we ALL know about the AI flaws that are exploitable..but we play games to feel empowered.  Jumping on a box every couple of minutes does not make us feel like bad-&#! space ninjas.  It makes us feel like Granny Perkins seeing a mouse.

 

In my experience, you are also the minority. A majority of the people I play with have no issues with the stuns and staggers beyond the normal amount of disdain that one would get for having a punishment for poor performance. We also find Grineer without Rollers to be the most boring and easiest faction in the game to approach. They are all slow moving and easily dispatched with next to no effort, and there are never enough of them to make a difference in this assessment, while Infested levels are silly with targets that constantly swarm you and move in oft-erratic patterns.

 

I have never once condoned jumping on top of boxes to deal with anything, either. I do not believe in the strategy and have never used it because I feel it is unnecessary and, during fights with multiple elements, can potentially put you in harms way. You are correct in saying that standing on top of boxes to shoot targets while they cannot reach you is not fun. I agree with that. Instead, I suggest you try having fun challenging yourself by not exploiting the limited AI and mobility of Rollers and attempt more dynamic methods, unless your goal is to simply reach Point B from Point A without hindrance.

 

 

They don't need to be made "easier".  They need to be made less frustrating - Rollers AND the "nothing but stun and knock" Infested.

 

And for the record, I ride a Rhino, so it's not about any of the above "killing" me - I die once every couple of days at most, and usually when I do something stupid like not being quick enough on the 2 button while Rambo'ing a big swarm of gunners.  It's about the emotion involved - I get killed like that, I kick myself, and try to sharpen my skills and/or timing.  I get stunlocked for a significant amount of time by rollers or Infested and survive, it leaves me annoyed, grumpy, and ready to close the game, because they remove player agency.

 

You and I have very different definition of fun, I believe, because I much prefer fighting the more dynamic and risky-to-fight Rollers and Infested than to endless swarms of stationary Moas and Grineer/Corpus standing up neatly in a line in front of you to press their faces into your bullets. The fact that Infested and Rollers are fast, small, close-range and carry larger potential penalties for poor performance than just damage make killing them much more satisfying and rewarding to me than offing what are essentially low-risk cannon-fodder units, Lancers/Troopers/Crewmen/etc.

 

When I get killed because of Rollers (which is not often, as they are, by themselves, fairly harmless), I only get upset with myself, because after I'm dead, I always realize how I could of done that better. It never occurs to me that my death is because I was staggered, but because it was my poor performance that brought me to that point at which I died, and it behooves me to improve myself for the next encounter.

Edited May 5, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[Jamfrost]

Being Excalibur, I can deal with the other kinds of stuns in the game just fine, but these balls. These really, really annoying balls that just make me skip combat entirely and just run past enemies, really need to be redesigned in some fashion. Just my two cents. They're my biggest source of frustration and actually kill my desire to play this game. They actually make me dread combat. D:<

 

Anyhoo, good luck to the other Tenno.

[Raiithe]

I find the rollers annoying, but as someone earlier said the grineer are generally very easy to handle otherwise.

 

That said, i do think that the amount of staggering that goes on from a small ball running over your toe to be somewhat excessive. 

From my PoV, Rollers should only stagger you when they are actually attacking, not rolling past for its next attack run.

 

Though tbh i think that the stagger mechanic needs to be examined (not just for rollers), whether it be that stagger only affects the player once shields are down, or at low stamina, or even just random chance. Yes, I and probably everyone else knows that jumping up high can avoid most units that will cause stagger/stun-lock, however there are levels or situations where you might be unable to find such a sanctuary. 

[K_Shiro]

My greatest problem with them is when they sometimes stuck to the objective of a defense mission so hard that they cannot be shot - only aoe or lucky melee attacks can harm them (Earth defense missions to be precise).

[NinjaChicken]

Rollers fulfill the utility role within the Grineer faction, like the osprey for the Corpus. However, the persistent damage and stagger is quite annoying; seems like the devs just needed to throw something into the game without much thought or design. I mean really, its a ball that flies at you and you are unable to act for a few moments. The roller should only stagger on attack animation, which has been mentioned many times already, and IMO should be susceptible to slows via ice mods.

[Nedwin]

l2p.

[stacey69]

l2p.

Stop beating about the bush and say what you mean.

 

¬_¬

[AndryB94]

l2p.

Wow. Just wow. I sincerely hope for you this isn't the apex of your intelligence.

[Mietz]

Rollers don't necessarily need to be removed, just adjusted so they aren't as annoying as they are now.

[Sniktch]

When engaging you for an actual attack, Rollers will always take the most direct path towards you, which is a straight line, after which when they reach a certain distance from you they will go into the leap animation, small blades extended. It doesn't matter the distance, Rollers on an aggressive pass will forgo any sort of dodge movements for simply rollings straight at you. Normally after a pass is made against a Tenno, however, there is a period of time where the Roller is NOT making an engagement pass at you, and is instead attempting to turn around through different methods, such as circles, u-turns and whatnot. The distance at which the Roller does this is normally always the same, a good 10m or so in-game distance, but it can be changed when obstructions like boxes or walls are present in the path of the Roller. The period of time in which a single Roller engages and disengages before reengaging again is always shorter than the stagger it produces from its attack unless an outside obstruction is involved, in which case you are essentially in a bad position to be combating that Roller and should consider your options.

 

What you are explaining is most likely the non-aggressive turning phase, not the Roller's actual attacking motions. Currently, Rollers will still stagger you even if they are not making a direct effort to with their straightforward attack. I'm not entirely for or against the fact that Rollers that are not leaping at you can still stagger you with a touch, but I do think that it could possibly be removed in favor of staggers only happening when the Roller is actually making an effort to attack you. Otherwise, you're just stepping on them and are being tripped up in the process.

 

 

 

In my experience, you are also the minority. A majority of the people I play with have no issues with the stuns and staggers beyond the normal amount of disdain that one would get for having a punishment for poor performance. We also find Grineer without Rollers to be the most boring and easiest faction in the game to approach. They are all slow moving and easily dispatched with next to no effort, and there are never enough of them to make a difference in this assessment, while Infested levels are silly with targets that constantly swarm you and move in oft-erratic patterns.

 

I have never once condoned jumping on top of boxes to deal with anything, either. I do not believe in the strategy and have never used it because I feel it is unnecessary and, during fights with multiple elements, can potentially put you in harms way. You are correct in saying that standing on top of boxes to shoot targets while they cannot reach you is not fun. I agree with that. Instead, I suggest you try having fun challenging yourself by not exploiting the limited AI and mobility of Rollers and attempt more dynamic methods, unless your goal is to simply reach Point B from Point A without hindrance.

 

 

 

You and I have very different definition of fun, I believe, because I much prefer fighting the more dynamic and risky-to-fight Rollers and Infested than to endless swarms of stationary Moas and Grineer/Corpus standing up neatly in a line in front of you to press their faces into your bullets. The fact that Infested and Rollers are fast, small, close-range and carry larger potential penalties for poor performance than just damage make killing them much more satisfying and rewarding to me than offing what are essentially low-risk cannon-fodder units, Lancers/Troopers/Crewmen/etc.

 

When I get killed because of Rollers (which is not often, as they are, by themselves, fairly harmless), I only get upset with myself, because after I'm dead, I always realize how I could of done that better. It never occurs to me that my death is because I was staggered, but because it was my poor performance that brought me to that point at which I died, and it behooves me to improve myself for the next encounter.

First: I find enemies tend to NOT stay still unless they're behind cover or en masse - the sole exception being Shockwave Moa charging for their stomp.  Otherwise, they're constantly shifting position, seeking a clear firelane, or running for cover.  Grineer tend to fall back and seek cover, whether it be a Shield Lancer or actual terrain.  That may be a perceptual difference; confirmation bias is an ever-present risk in a subjective situation, which this is. 

 

And yes, I do agree we have differing definitions of fun - I don't play games to "receive punishment until I get better".  I play them to have a good time with my friends blowing pixels into blood smears, helping each other achieve goals, and occasionally screwing up hilariously.  You, however, seem to view it as a profession - something you're being judged harshly on, with penalties for screwing up.  Work, in other words.  Given that particular worldview, perhaps you'd be happier playing something on the pro tours instead of "just for fun"; either way, it's quite clear we'll never meet eye-to-eye on the definition, so I'll agree to disagree and move on.

 

WRT the rollers: You say their attack is the jumping-blade phase - I say their "attack" is anytime you get stumbled and damaged by them regardless of animation.  And the oft-mentioned "only let them stumble you when they are actually jumping, blades out" would be a very good median point - because it's not the animated attack that makes them hair-tearingly frustrating.  It's the "zipped by you two inches away and sent you into a drunken lurch" that does it - fix that, and Rollers go from the reason I'm bald to what you currently view them as: a spice to the Grineer, something to change-up the scenario. 

 

As for the Infested: The problem with them is that stumble is ALL THEY DO.  You either bring a heavy weapon(Gram, Scindo) or Dual Ethers capped and potato'd and expect to melee-slog through it taking a ton of time while being bored to tears, or you plan on running past just about everything so you DON'T get stunlocked.  And God help you if you've got a Glaive on your arm and the Corpus or Grineer mission you picked turns into Infested - at that point, it's run or abort, because the Glaive is useless as a melee weapon, and they WILL get to melee unless you book it.  Give them some variety beyond "ten different ways to stagger like you've just had a cask of Jack".  Runners are fine.  Leapers are fine.  Knock stun off Chargers, give them something else.  And Disruptors need a serious balance check - shields OR energy, not both.  If both, then NOT all of either.  And no more "ten in a pack as you come around the corner" - limit their numbers in the same way Grineer elites are limited.

[Nedwin]

Well here you are... 5 people who dont want to learn how to avoid/destroy rollers, you just want to nerf them. Well done.

Saw there another thread about Disruptor Nerf...

Please stop making this game boring

Edited May 5, 2013 by Nedwin

[Huitzil]

Well here you are... 5 people who dont want to learn how to avoid/destroy rollers, you just want to nerf them. Well done.

Saw there another thread about Disruptor Nerf...

Please stop making this game boring

People like you, who post on the beta forum responding to every complaint with "you all suck everything is fine learn to play", actively make games worse. 

'Cause you know what? Even ignoring the fact that rollers are terrible no matter your skill level and the only reason to defend them is rationalization and pretending that being more able to tolerate a bad design makes you somehow a more worthy person... A game ought to be fun even if you aren't good at it. When it destroys you, it ought to be in a way that feels fair and makes you want to get better. When Batman gets his &amp;#&#33; beaten in an Arkham game, it's always because you screwed up; you always have all of the tools you need to overcome a situation and you just didn't apply them correctly. Every attack in Bayonetta or Devil May Cry has a signal to alert you it's coming and the warning is proportional to how much the attack will harm you, and when you get killed, it was because you didn't react fast enough, not because the game didn't warn you or wasn't set up in such a way as to let you react instantaneously.

Getting stunlocked by anything and watching yourself get shot to death while your character kind of derps there, when you mash the buttons to move but your character won't respond, is not fun. It never has been fun and it never will be fun. Stunlock is not an acceptable mechanic. Period.

[Nedwin]

People like you, who post on the beta forum responding to every complaint with "you all suck everything is fine learn to play", actively make games worse. 

'Cause you know what? Even ignoring the fact that rollers are terrible no matter your skill level and the only reason to defend them is rationalization and pretending that being more able to tolerate a bad design makes you somehow a more worthy person... A game ought to be fun even if you aren't good at it. When it destroys you, it ought to be in a way that feels fair and makes you want to get better. When Batman gets his &amp;#&#33; beaten in an Arkham game, it's always because you screwed up; you always have all of the tools you need to overcome a situation and you just didn't apply them correctly. Every attack in Bayonetta or Devil May Cry has a signal to alert you it's coming and the warning is proportional to how much the attack will harm you, and when you get killed, it was because you didn't react fast enough, not because the game didn't warn you or wasn't set up in such a way as to let you react instantaneously.

Getting stunlocked by anything and watching yourself get shot to death while your character kind of derps there, when you mash the buttons to move but your character won't respond, is not fun. It never has been fun and it never will be fun. Stunlock is not an acceptable mechanic. Period.

Learn to lose.

Yes, you got killed, what next? Make the game look like Call of duty? Where you can hide and regenerate health?

The problem is the game is very soft to newcomers. You think you are so damn good at this game when you kill tons of level 2 Grineer, but when they kill you at level 40-50, "something is wrong".

Not fair to you? Is it fair to Grineer that you have such powerful abilities?

Tenno are not immortal superheroes. I recommend you to play some old games where you had to spend HOURS to complete one stage/kill one boss.

You have 4 free revives, and I ask you: "How many times you used all of them?" How many times you actually died because of stunlock?

And why the heck i don't die because of rollers?

 

P.S. And you know what...YOU SUCK, not because you bad at this game but because you came on forums to make your " fair suggestions" and spoil a game (at least for me). Go to mom or l2p.

[Depar]

The rollers are here 2 annoy, the should prevent you from aiming and move freely, yeah sometimes it get ridiculous because there are so many of them but why you didnt prevent THEM to get so many? you have no idea how this balls where in closed bete, watch some old videos on youtube. THAT was something they need to change but our litte rollers are nothing compared 2 them. im not saying l2p get gud or something just stop complaining about such stuff you can avoid by easily watch you enemys and take out whats important.

 

 

and bayonetta and devil may cry are games you can complet in 3-6h if you are not totally new 2 gaming

Edited May 5, 2013 by Depar