Petition To Remove Frame And Weapon Slot Limits Or Offer A Free Way To Get Them

[Mietz]

http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=230410

[Klaww]

All game devs say that.  They don't like being compared to successful games because they know they'll never be able to measure up to them.  Thus they say other games' models don't fit.  The irony of this is that they often then go on to make a system that is very similar with some minor detrimental differences.  Slots are a good example of this.  Because when you get down to it, the system DE has right now is not very different from other f2p games aside from the fact that they're giving away some costmetics (helmets) and charging for stuff that many games don't bother with (slots).

 

Warframe is stradling the dungeon crawler and shooter genres.  The fact that it has a foot in the shooter genre  makes slots mesh pretty poorly with the expectations of some players.

 

Been living under a rock or something? Have you not heard of steam stats/graphs/charts?  The game has regularly been fluctuating between 12-17k users and hit an all time peak of 21k (21,157 to be exact).

 

 

 

Oh look, another person that can't tell the difference between concurrent users and registered users. 

Resorting to ad hominem attacks doesn't strengthen your resolve. Fallacies destroy arguments.

Also you still lack sources so once again its a opinion.

Basing a "opinion" using steam resources is pointless as well due to the fact war frame is played quite a bit without steam.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Klaww

[Aggh]

Resorting to ad hominem attacks doesn't strengthen your resolve. Fallacies destroy arguments.

Also you still lack sources so once again its a opinion.

The guy above you posted it lol.  I'm not going to hold your hand, this kind of stuff is readily available to anyone with the mental capacity to look it up :|

[Klaww]

 

Also you still lack sources so once again its a opinion.

Basing a "opinion" using steam resources is pointless as well due to the fact war frame is played quite a bit without steam.

^

Steam resources are useless

 

 

More ad hominem attacks I see coming from your way. Thats a silly excuse as well

Edited May 4, 2013 by Klaww

[Azure_Kytia]

Is that attitude really necessary, Aggh? Seriously. Tone it down. There's no need to berate others simply because they may not share the same opinion as yourself.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/7-community-rules/ Read 'em.

[Blatantfool]

 Hey guys, what is really important is keeping the feedback and conversation constructive. When things get caught up in a back and forth about right and wrong it chokes that up. 

 

 Just popping in to let you guys know that it kinda looks like that is whats going on.

[Klaww]

Its frankly disturbing to say numbers are diminishing based on one factor: Plat for slots

You haven't interviewed every single one of these people and yet assume its because of this.

As Windblow said: "You cannot project your own views on countless unknown persons"

[Honest]

this is what ticks me off........ some of you just don't understand people need to make money off this game you can not get every darn thing for free. Live with it or just pay the damn money.I already believe the Devs gave the non paying member base more than they deserved so stop complaining.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Honest

[Story4]

Mietz, thank you for the link. Now let's see what Warframe concurrent players looks like on steam from 12 april to 2 may:

 

http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=230410&from=1365714000000&to=1367442000000

 

As you can see, there is a pretty steep decline, from 22000 to 17000.

 

Or just click on past month:

 

http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=230410&from=1365067834

Edited May 4, 2013 by Story4

[Mietz]

Mietz, thank you for the link. Now let's see what Warframe concurrent players looks like on steam from 12 april to 2 may:

 

http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=230410&from=1365714000000&to=1367442000000

 

As you can see, there is a pretty steep decline, from 22000 to 17000.

 

Yes.

 

What does this tell us?

 

That players have declined.

 

Does this tell us anything about the -cause-?

 

No.

[liavalenth]

          This is an interesting topic, and one that is hard to say how they would go about doing it, but I do want it. Allowing people to buy slots would be nice in my opinion, but they do need to make money with the game.

 

          I have not read through this entire topic, so I apologize if someone already suggested this, but IF they did allow people to buy slots I think an exponentially increasing credit cost might work. For example the first new warframe slot costs 100,000 the second costs 200,000 the third 400,000 fourth 800,000 etc. Start weapon slots lower, at like 40k, 80k, 160k, 320k, etc. That way even new players can get a few more slots for free, but at a certain point (fairly quickly) it becomes much easier to just buy them. Although, as pointed out above, credits may become easier to get over time, so this may not work very well.

 

          Personally I think there should be a free way to get anything in the game, but make it difficult or time consuming enough most people will not want to. One thing I thought could be cool would be dropping single colors from pallets that you can use on your warframe, with a .0001% chance of dropping or something, but that's another topic altogether.

Edited May 4, 2013 by liavalenth

[Windbow]

Just so you know, I'm not quoting you just because you quoted me. :)

 

Its frankly disturbing to say numbers are diminishing based on one factor: Plat for slots

You haven't interviewed every single one of these people and yet assume its because of this.

As Windblow said: "You cannot project your own views on countless unknown persons"

 

This is the point I've been trying to make. Yes, we have seen the numbers go down. The stats do seem to indicate that most of the concurrent players are steam players - this is not a stretch, the servers went down practically as soon as Warframe went up on steam! This thread is about slots for plats and why DE needs to make them available without plats. The premise is that not doing so will result in a large number of users leaving, never to return and that we are seeing that happening now from the stats.

 

The fact is, the slots issue is not necessarily the direct cause of this decline. You can't credibly make that assertion right now. Unless and until we have real data (eg. a postmortem question of "why did you quit warframe?" answered by everyone who quit), this is just opinion and perhaps a healthy dose of speculation. It may be the case. And I don't doubt that it is the case for some. I'm just not convinced it's the big "game-failing" deal that some people are asserting here.

[TunaMayo]

Im just going to put my hand up and agree with a few people here that you cannot blame the slot prices for the drop in player base.

My personal opinion would be that there isnt much"more" to the game right now. Even though you can get new frames/weps there is no aim or goal to the game yet, just a lot of shooting, slashing and grinding.

Dont get me wrong, I love the game, but there is still something missing. Maybe a lot of players who picked up the game on steam thought "ooh cool graphics, kinda fun, but whats the point?".

Honestly I think DE would have done better to hold out til update 8.0 was finished and they had ironed out the bugs before doing a steam release. I know they needed the funds but but some of the people who have dropped off now may not return.

[crow-k]

ITT ad hominem repeated repeatedly ad hominemed

[Mietz]

Just so you know, I'm not quoting you just because you quoted me. :)

 

 

This is the point I've been trying to make. Yes, we have seen the numbers go down. The stats do seem to indicate that most of the concurrent players are steam players - this is not a stretch, the servers went down practically as soon as Warframe went up on steam! This thread is about slots for plats and why DE needs to make them available without plats. The premise is that not doing so will result in a large number of users leaving, never to return and that we are seeing that happening now from the stats.

 

The fact is, the slots issue is not necessarily the direct cause of this decline. You can't credibly make that assertion right now. Unless and until we have real data (eg. a postmortem question of "why did you quit warframe?" answered by everyone who quit), this is just opinion and perhaps a healthy dose of speculation. It may be the case. And I don't doubt that it is the case for some. I'm just not convinced it's the big "game-failing" deal that some people are asserting here.

 

The most rational reasons for the declining numbers are two fold:

 

a. Most games have declining player numbers from release because a lot of players try the game and just don't like it (on a subjective level of taste)

b. Its still beta, the game is still very rough around the edges and has bugs, annoyances and imbalances

 

I left CBT around mid January after ~5 hours of play because what was there wasn't enough to keep my interest (see my first post). After the game went soft open beta I returned and have now ~45h of play. There is no reason to think that some of the "lost" players won't return over time as the game gets closer to launch.

 

That being said. The game currently is more successful in player numbers than big budget F2P titles like Planetside 2

In fact, WF is, currently, -the- most successful F2P game available on steam (discounting TF2 and DOTA2 Beta) and is consistently in the top 10 of games played on steam.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

 

If you compare the player falloff, it is not alarmingly steep compared to other games. If however the trend continues after a 1-2 months and does -not- level out to a stable population (like other games do), we are in trouble.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Mietz

[Xtorma]

this is what ticks me off........ some of you just don't understand people need to make money off this game you can not get every darn thing for free. Live with it or just pay the damn money.I already believe the Devs gave the non paying member base more than they deserved so stop complaining.

Nobody here is saying that the game does not need to make money. They just have differing opinions on how the best way is to go about it. Of course knowing that would have required you to read, which you clearly didn't. You did get upvoted though, which is a positive thing :/.

 

On the issue of losing 4000 concurrent members, the number is meaningless unless some value is placed on it. We have no idea what each concurrent user contributes, on average, to the revenue generated by the game. There is no doubt that there is lost revenue here, but how much? We also need to know what the game's growth, either +, or - (in revenue) is for the same period. We also need to know how much revenue the game has made, during the same time period selling character and weapon slots. We need to know how many people quit as a direct or indirect consequence of the pay for content model. We need to know the long term goal of the existing business model. This is information they will never give out.

 

If people are going to ask for a change in business model, they need a more compelling argument that the change will result in higher revenue for the company.

[TerraLupus]

Nobody here is saying that the game does not need to make money. They just have differing opinions on how the best way is to go about it. Of course knowing that would have required you to read, which you clearly didn't. You did get upvoted though, which is a positive thing :/.

 

On the issue of losing 4000 concurrent members, the number is meaningless unless some value is placed on it. We have no idea what each concurrent user contributes, on average, to the revenue generated by the game. There is no doubt that there is lost revenue here, but how much? We also need to know what the game's growth, either +, or - (in revenue) is for the same period. We also need to know how much revenue the game has made, during the same time period selling character and weapon slots. We need to know how many people quit as a direct or indirect consequence of the pay for content model. We need to know the long term goal of the existing business model. This is information they will never give out.

 

If people are going to ask for a change in business model, they need a more compelling argument that the change will result in higher revenue for the company.

the argument here is by allowing players to buy slots with credits free to play members will be able to continue to build/upgrade their arsenal rather than forcing them to delete their hard work to try something new.

 

more free players stay with the game which means more players to build teams with and more players to spread good word about the game. 

 

what most people outside the game are saying atm is along the lines of "yah its cool but you can only really make so many frames then there's nothing to do unless you wana restart, or pony up the cash" just check steam about the slots if you want to confirm this 

 

now if people were to be saying "yah man its pretty fun I got 6 frames and I'm working on getting a 7th in the next few days, and I didnt have to spend a dime" which do you think would bring more players in? so what if the person that is originally attracted is a free to play member hes most likely got friends he likes to play with, and you can safely assume one or more of them is willing to pony up a bit of cash to catch up maybe get a slight advantage on his peers. 

 

you have to keep in mind that their are tons of other options in free to play shooters firefall is a nice example their beta community was pretty huge till they started using a slot system and their system wasn't nearly as limiting since you kept your exp on the frame if you sold it. 

 

If they want the game to pretty much require you to pay at some point to enjoy all the non cosmetic features then it should be advertised as "Free to try" i doubt the game would do well as a pay to play title since it doesn't offer enough unique content. Dont misunderstand that statement the game is fun and all, But there are many other free to play titles to choose from.

 

The payment model I see working best for this game is more or less what they are doing now without a few limitations currently on free players.

 

access to all content for free, that includes the ability to continue progressing without losing what you have already earned.

 

The option to pay to speed up progression, buying weapons and frames instantly, finishing crafting instantly, buying mods, buying mod boosters, buying more cosmetic items that would require free members to play the waiting game on alerts, ect.

 

and maybe a boost to income by allowing early access to new items through cash like they did with the glave assuming they are going to add a recipe for this op burst weapon(got it from the alert).

 

no this model doesn't pull in 500 tho a month but it keeps you nice and comfy in the green and as long as you keep pumping new content the money keeps on coming.

 

this roadside robbery on slots might make a few unwilling paying members but it will also turn away alot of free players in the end. But turning away free advertisement over 50 cents seems like a bad move in my mind. 

 

Words have more value than penmanship I'm not willing to invest more time to make my opinion look pretty for you. take any typos or grammar errors as they are.