<Underclocking Mods> (Mentioned On Livestream)

[PapaKicks]

Which runs completely contrary to the entire point of the mod system.

 

What are you talking about? I was replying to a tangent with someone else. I was not talking about the original concept of underclocking.

 

Being able to take a maxed out multishot for pistol, and instantly convert it to multishot for shotgun is not even close to the originally proposed concept of underclocking.

 

Are you implying that being able to instantly convert a maxed out mod to another mod is in-line with the current mod system? I strongly disagree if you think so.

[Tyrian3k]

I don't know about this. Would it make things easier, yes most definitely. If they did this would I use it? Without a doubt. Didn't they already say no, we want you to have meaningful choices with real consequences? Yes they did. And I can see where they are coming from. If you can just :"clock them" why have more than 1 of each? It is part of the time/credit sink that they use to keep things moving around. This issue will also become less of an issue with the prestige/paragon system. That in and of itself may solve the problem with use of time and effort to add depth to your frame.

 

The whole point of this thread was not having to have multiple versions of each mod.

 

The system as it is will just keep us running to the point where we have all the mods we want on all the levels we want. That won't change if we lose all our progress on a mod when downgrading because nobody will do it as it is just as expensive to get a second mod to the desired level.

 

Making us play to get progress back we already had? No, thanks.

[hywod]

Watching the video and seeing them kind of mumble about how "it sounds complicated to implement" before going down the bad path.

 

Here's my suggestion about "how":

 

When you insert a mod, it's inserted at its minimum level, and you may "dial it up" as much as you like as constrained by the mod level, and mod capacity of the item it's inserted into.

 

So you can't put a base-cost-6, rank-2 mod in any un-ranked item but when the item is rank-20, you can insert at cost-6 and dial up to cost-7 or cost-8.

 

The increase would be user directed, not self-expanding so if you never tweak the mod level, it will remain at that level and you will see unused points as the item levels up.

[Lord.Finster]

We are still lucky that installing mods on a gun isn't permanent. Imagine farming multishot for every gun you have.

That would be a real nightmare.

 

Still, what they are planning to do with the downgrading system makes no sense whatsoever. It would make me uneasy even having it in the game at all for I might use it accidentally. :-(

[Fredlicious]

I don't know about this. Would it make things easier, yes most definitely. If they did this would I use it? Without a doubt. Didn't they already say no, we want you to have meaningful choices with real consequences? Yes they did. And I can see where they are coming from. If you can just :"clock them" why have more than 1 of each? It is part of the time/credit sink that they use to keep things moving around. This issue will also become less of an issue with the prestige/paragon system. That in and of itself may solve the problem with use of time and effort to add depth to your frame.

 

Once again, why is it better that the endgame for mods is "have one of each mod for each possible rank of that mod" instead of "have one of each mod at its max rank?" Spoiler alert: it isn't. It's less intuitive, it results in more clutter, and it results in uninteresting grinding.

 

Now, before someone says "but DE needs people to grind so they keep playing," I don't entirely disagree. I do, however, disagree that that makes for a good defense of this system. It can be tolerable to grind for some kind of *new* reward (a new mod, a new warframe, etc). Nobody is going to enjoy grinding to build a weaker version of a mod they already have.

[Hydraflux]

When they announced how their underclocking system was going to work on the last livestream, it seemed very roundabout and punishing for no reason- I'm the one who farmed up 50 fusion cores to max barrel diffusion, why should I have to farm up (or lose) more things to decrease its effectiveness? Was pretty disappointing. So yeah, agree with DreadScourge and Cerenth.

[unmog]

I agree with the author of this thread, and when I saw the livestream was surprised they'd try punishing you for upgrading a mod. Especially considering how much it actually takes to level a mod to max, I don't think people should be punished for it. How is that a mistake? Just make it so we can lower and raise the power level afterward. Wouldn't be too hard to code.

 

Too bad there isnt a way to like this post or something else I would have +'d the author.

[DreadScourge]

 

Is this reasonable?

 

Is this feasible?

 

Is this fair?

 

Is it right to force the player to refarm to such ridiculous extents in order to regain what they had already achieved? I don't know about anybody else, but being forced to do this wouldn't make me play more -- it'd make me play less.

I've noted your post on the main post. Thanks for the research!

[HvcTerr]

Here's a simple compromise: Limit how far you can underclock.

 

For example, if a mod has 10 upgrade dots on the side, (11 total levels) then restrict it so that you can never underclock by more than 3-4 levels.

[Fredlicious]

Here's a simple compromise: Limit how far you can underclock.

 

For example, if a mod has 10 upgrade dots on the side, (11 total levels) then restrict it so that you can never underclock by more than 3-4 levels.

 

This would be a little upsetting in that it still leaves us with the problem of mod clutter; it reduces the grind a bit, but you'd still end up with a rank 10, a rank 6, a rank 2, etc of that mod to maximize your flexibility.

[Yikitama]

I don't know about this. Would it make things easier, yes most definitely. If they did this would I use it? Without a doubt. Didn't they already say no, we want you to have meaningful choices with real consequences? Yes they did. And I can see where they are coming from. If you can just :"clock them" why have more than 1 of each? It is part of the time/credit sink that they use to keep things moving around. This issue will also become less of an issue with the prestige/paragon system. That in and of itself may solve the problem with use of time and effort to add depth to your frame.

 

Or they could make the game fun enough so that credit and mod sinks aren't necessary, and having to paragon a weapon to try out new mod combos seems like it wouldn't work at all. 

"Well, I wanna try this new setup but I'll have to paragon and spend a minimum of 5 in-game hours to get my mod cap high enough again." (No fun)

 

We shouldn't have to use money or lose progress to experiment with downgrades of all things. It just feels wrong. I can see where they're coming from but I don't agree with that point of view on underclocking.

[crow-k]

Or they could make the game fun enough so that credit and mod sinks aren't necessary, and having to paragon a weapon to try out new mod combos seems like it wouldn't work at all. 

"Well, I wanna try this new setup but I'll have to paragon and spend a minimum of 5 in-game hours to get my mod cap high enough again." (No fun)

 

We shouldn't have to use money or lose progress to experiment with downgrades of all things. It just feels wrong. I can see where they're coming from but I don't agree with that point of view on underclocking.

 

 

Watching the video and seeing them kind of mumble about how "it sounds complicated to implement" before going down the bad path.

 

Here's my suggestion about "how":

 

When you insert a mod, it's inserted at its minimum level, and you may "dial it up" as much as you like as constrained by the mod level, and mod capacity of the item it's inserted into.

 

So you can't put a base-cost-6, rank-2 mod in any un-ranked item but when the item is rank-20, you can insert at cost-6 and dial up to cost-7 or cost-8.

 

The increase would be user directed, not self-expanding so if you never tweak the mod level, it will remain at that level and you will see unused points as the item levels up.

 

They looked at this option, said no. Could they change their minds, maybe. And yes explaining things like that is easy, but I do not suppose you know how hard implementing it is? Don't worry its just nuclear fusion. Besides, we have systems incomming to make it more indepth. just relax and wait and see.

[MisguidedGT]

Here's a wacky idea:

What about having a mod called Underclock (or similar) that has a cost of zero and temporarily reduces the effectiveness of any other mod installed in the Warframe (or weapon) to the base level. Not as flexible of a solution as being able to tweak individual mod levels, but a much simpler one.

[DreadScourge]

Well...how about keeping things easy ?

 

What about adding a new type of "core"...lets call it "scaling core", or maybe "flexibility core".

 

Just fusion it to your mod you want to scale, and from now on, that mod is scalable, meaning your can fit it to your needs

I like the way you think, my friend. +1

[hywod]

They looked at this option, said no. Could they change their minds, maybe. And yes explaining things like that is easy, but I do not suppose you know how hard implementing it is? Don't worry its just nuclear fusion. Besides, we have systems incomming to make it more indepth. just relax and wait and see.

 

 

It seems like addition and subtraction, and multiplication, so that's why it seems easy. However, you are right that keeping a database of atomic objects would be more simple than ones that are variable by user input. Currently I think that there's nothing in the game that has a 'slider" for the user to adjust. I am definitely waiting and seeing.

[Fredlicious]

The question I'd really like to get to the devs in the next livestream (if not before) is this: do you envision players at the "endgame" sticking with a fairly static, specialized build, or do you imagine that players will constantly experiment and tweak as they play? Both the current system and the proposed destructive fission would push us towards the former, and I can say for sure that I would burn out on that experience a lot faster than the latter.

[Nickeltoe]

I know the devs responded, but this would be a great addition.  Also probably been said elsewhere but mod profiles for each gear once it is max leveled and even super charged so you can click and it auto moves mods and, with this suggestion, power levels to whatever gear you are loading.

 

Allows you to quickly switch to Grineer figthing gear for the next mission before the 1 minute timer is up if you had your infestation or corpus gear on.

 

Hope this comes out someday.  Good post.

[potatofamine]

The first couple of paragraphs sound like awful whining, but the stuff after that about being able to decrease a mod's power sounds great!

[DreadScourge]

The first couple of paragraphs sound like awful whining, but the stuff after that about being able to decrease a mod's power sounds great!

I appreciate the support. However, I was quite careful to not show any remorse aside from the word "Unfortunately" regarding their decision and implementation. Perhaps you're oversensitive to it.

[Inspector_Flagellum]

Since we're all just throwing opinions out there, I'll make mine known: With respect, the guy who came up with the destructive underclocking idea needs to go sit in a corner and think about what he's done. Better to save everyone's time and effort by not implementing an underclocking system at all, because that idea is utterly pointless.

 

Frankly, I don't see any good reason why you shouldn't be able to underclock a mod to any level you've "unlocked" already. Like some people (by which I mean, the entire damn community) have said already - the current idea increases tedious grinding (even more than trying to farm duplicates already does) and clutter, and no-one with a modicum of self-respect would use the destructive underclocking idea. It is at best redundant with keeping duplicates at every level, and it doesn't even have any of the advantages that such a strategy does.

 

You want me to pay for progress? That's fair, and it makes sense. You want me to pay again to remove my own progress? That's just insulting. And then you want me to pay a third time to get it back? F*ck you with a rusty spork. This isn't a design decision, it's a cheap way to get people to grind more, as if this game didn't have enough of that already with plenty to spare, and I'll have nothing to do with it.

 

How about just allowing players to set a mod to any level they've unlocked? Could be as simple as a pair of little up/down buttons on the mod card, on the "equipped mods" screen. People who want duplicates still need to farm and upgrade them, everyone else can sell them to reduce clutter. It might even make selling mods a viable source of credits. Gods know I'd desperately love to tidy my inventory (screw you, OCD), and I can always use the credits.

 

TL;DR:
What Cerenth said.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Zadok13

[Callback]

We still do want this.

 

Think about RO, the most successful Korean MMO of all time.  When you level up a skill, increasing SP cost or cast time, you're not forced to go all out and reset yourself just because you want to save a second of time killing a weaker monster with a lower level spell, you can scroll up or down to cast it at any level up to what you have unlocked.  They knew what they were doing.

 

Could you immagine a world where all machinery was forced to run at 100% capacity all the time?  PCs would require massive power supply units and burn out quickly.  Server rooms around the world would catch fire from all the heat.  Cars would be impossible to control, and would burn through gas and tires, and wear out engine oil at incredible speeds.  Food would be crispy on the outside but raw on the inside for fear of burning it in our maxed out ovens.  There would be no way to land a plane without crashing.  The world would be chaos.

[gavdl13]

i really like the idea.. hope they take this under consideration...

[Callback]

AH  BIG concern.  Ammo conversion.  We have no way after leveling them up to slot them in if we can't afford the full cost.  Good reason to reconsider *cough* and make primed chamber available *cough*

Edited July 30, 2013 by Callback

[Beelzebubbles]

Best necro ever.  This is still a much-needed thing.

[Chris9428]

I don't know how this thread managed to die.. It's a @(*()&#036; good suggestion and I want DE to put it into the game immediately!