Single-Blade Swords Need Buff

[Guest]

Imo every melee should have multi-hit.

yes

I too believe that every weapon should be able to hit within their swing arc.

[Nedwin]

Stopped reading.

Your welcome.

What will you take on missions - Cronus or DE? DE not OP? Armor pierce+ Infested dmg+ Multi-hit = OP

Edited May 12, 2013 by Nedwin

[Eltoshan]

Your welcome.

What will you take on missions - Cronus or DE? DE not OP? Armor pierce+ Infested dmg+ Multi-hit = OP

How is this proof that DE is overpowered? Asking "what are you going to take, an awful garbage weapon or a competent one" isn't a fair question at all.

 

Here, let's fix that for you. What will you take on missions - Dual Ethers, or a Gram? Dual Ethers, or Dual Heat Swords? Did you know that charge attacks also ignore armor, and on bladed weapons like the gram and DHS, you get bonus damage to infested, and can hit multiple targets?

 

I don't disagree that longswords need to be buffed because they clearly do, but this point is complete trash.

[Grilleds]

The Cronus is actually a pretty viable spam attack weapon until you get Dual Ether Daggers. The problem is that you are jumping from 77 DPS to over 100 DPS in that one upgrade, and there is only maybe one or two other spam attack weapons that can bridge the gap in the meantime.

 

In terms of charge damage, the Plasma Sword and Dark Sword have a charge DPS that only Furax can match, and Furax has very little range to compensate.

 

Pangolin Sword, Jaw Sword, and all the single dagger weapons simply don't offer enough damage to really be worth getting, especially since almost everyone already has a Cronus or something better by the time they get the alerts for them.

[TPSCROLL]

I think all the single daggers and really all the alert melee weapons need a buff (besides the glaive), other than mastery there isn't a reason to run any of them. Why run any of those when you could just bring Dual ether?

[RIOT]

I would love single bladed weapons to be buffed. :( i want a better reason to use pangolin sword other than slightly faster charge attacks.

[overdosed]

Whats up with everyones fascination with dual ethers anyways?! I have them, and i still prefer my scindo, dark sword or glaive to them. They dont have stronger charge attack than any of those, heat swords also have more damage. And as far as them being good for normal attacks, normal attacks need a buff as a whole. Spamming normal attacks with ethers is still weaker than most charged attacks, and sadly you cant spec them optimally for both normal and charged attacks, so you have to choose which one you want and the heat swords are better for charged attacks(AND ALL CHARGED ATTACKS IGNORE ARMOR) So they can only shine with normal attacks, which as i already said are not that good, and the only bonus that the ethers get on those is to ignore armor against greneer, nothing else, most other bladed weapons get double or triple dmg against infestation.

So whats so overpowered about them?! I feel like most ppl saying they are overpowered either dont have them, or have never played against lvl 28+ enemies...

[KenseiSeraph]

Hi! As for me, for this time single-bladed swords are seemed to be really underpowered.

Lets take a look at all market melee weapons:

 

 

So. We have: 2 single-bladed, 1 disc, 2 staff, 2 close-combat, 3 heavy swords and a bunch of dual swords.

To be mentioned there is only 1 sword you can buy immediately - Skana.

And there are only 2 swords you can purchase/create from market.

Another 6 swords that exist (Heat, Dark, Jaw, Pangolin, Plasma, Cronus) can be created in foundry. Blueprints for them drops on Alert missions/Boss. So they are considered to be rare ones (Just like Glaive).

 

Lets take a look on them:

-Dark sword has bigger charge damage (125) (Just like Plasma sword);

-Heat sword AOE fire jump attack;

And what about others? Jaw sword and Pangolin sword have even lower basic/charge damage than Cronus. And all swords features are seemed the same.

 

Lets compare single-bladed sword to the most overpowered weapon - Dual Ether.

Dual Ether:

-Triple damage to Infested;

-All attacks can hit multiply targets;

-Stagger on every attack;

-Ignores armor;

-AOE jump knockdown (Even Bosses)

 

Dark Sword:

-Triple damage to Infested;

-Low base attack;

-High charge attack;

-Hit single target

-Very small AOE jump knockdown.

 

To sum up:

-Single-bladed swords are no way better than dual/heavy

-Other weapons' blueprints are all in the market -> easy to get;

-Other weapons  hit multiple targets (The biggest advantage).

-Swords that meant to be rare are worse than market ones.

 

I personally don't see any reason not to buff them.

 

Did they recently buff the AOE jump attack on Dual Ether?

I almost never bother with it as its AOE is smaller than my frames hand and most enemies dodge it in the time it takes for me to hit the ground.

 

Also don't single-bladed weapons have the highest block damage reduction?

Edited May 13, 2013 by Seraphim_ZA

[overdosed]

Did they recently buff the AOE jump attack on Dual Ether?

I almost never bother with it as its AOE is smaller than my frames hand and most enemies dodge it in the time it takes for me to hit the ground.

 

Also don't single-bladed weapons have the highest block damage reduction?

 

No they didnt, hes just quoting the wiki, which is full of misinformation, and i bet he doesnt even have dual ethers or the dark sword xD

 

And who cares about blocking damage? The only time ive used the block was to see what does it look like. Its an absolutely obsolete feature.

And again as i said earlier in the thread - single light weapons just need to be able to hit multiple enemies and have a minimum of 30 normal and 100 charge dmg to become as good as everything else.

[Tyrian3k]

Whats up with everyones fascination with dual ethers anyways?! I have them, and i still prefer my scindo, dark sword or glaive to them. They dont have stronger charge attack than any of those, heat swords also have more damage. And as far as them being good for normal attacks, normal attacks need a buff as a whole. Spamming normal attacks with ethers is still weaker than most charged attacks, and sadly you cant spec them optimally for both normal and charged attacks, so you have to choose which one you want and the heat swords are better for charged attacks(AND ALL CHARGED ATTACKS IGNORE ARMOR) So they can only shine with normal attacks, which as i already said are not that good, and the only bonus that the ethers get on those is to ignore armor against greneer, nothing else, most other bladed weapons get double or triple dmg against infestation.

So whats so overpowered about them?! I feel like most ppl saying they are overpowered either dont have them, or have never played against lvl 28+ enemies...

Yes, normal attacks definitely could use a buff... or more precisely: Pressure Point and Shocking Touch need a buff.

Pressure Point fills the same Role for normal attacks as Killing Blow fills for charged attacks, but Killing Blow grants a much bigger bonus.

If normal attacks and charged attacks are supposed to be balanced without mods then charged attacks are ~75% more powerful than normal attacks with all mods applied.

I am well aware that you need to use Killing Blow and Reflex Coil for that to actually be the case, but even on a weapon without any polarities you can use Killing Blow (11), Reflex Coil (7), Sundering Strike (7), Fury (9), Molten Impact (11) and North Wind (11) all on their maximum levels and still have 4 energy left.

People may argue about being able to use Shocking Touch on normal melee, but that's just 30% electric damage at the cost of 11 capacity, so the difference that makes is actually minor, especially since melee is mostly used against infested which are resistent or even completely immune to electric damage.

 

On topic:

The problem about not hitting multiple enemies is that DPS barely even matters if all non-heavy enemies die with one charge attack. You can only use the DPS of the Dark Sword if there are either many enemies (where multi-hit weapons have a clear advantage) or heavy enemies/bosses.

Yes, single target weapons are better against single, strong enemies, but the difference should be more significant than what it is now.

You can kill a horde of infested about twice as fast with Dual Heat Swords as you can with a Dark Sword, but can you kill a boss twice as fast with a Dark Sword when compared to Dual Heat Swords?

Dark Sword needs 1 s to charge and 0.5 s to perform the attack which deals 125 damage with a crit chance of 20% at 150% crit damage, which is 137.5 damage in 1.5 s or 91.7 DPS.

Dual Heat Swords need 1.5 s to charge and 0.5 s to perform the attack which deals 150 damage with a crit chance of 10% at 150% crit damage, which is 157.5 damage in 2 s or 78.75 DPS.

The damage difference isn't all that significant, even if you consider modding crit on the Dark Sword.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Tyrian3k

[overdosed]

Snip...

 

I dont understand what are you trying to tell me with all that? My whole point was that the dual ethers are not overpowered lol

Edited May 13, 2013 by overdosed

[Tyrian3k]

I dont understand what are you trying to tell me with all that? My whole point was that the dual ethers are not overpowered lol

 

You said that charge attacks are generally better than normal attacks didn't you? I simply agreed with that and gave some more details on that point.

 

The part about multi-hit vs. single-hit wasn't directed at you.

 

Made some edits to make it more obvious...

Edited May 13, 2013 by Tyrian3k

[overdosed]

You said that charge attacks are generally better than normal attacks didn't you? I simply agreed with that and gave some more details on that point.

 

The part about multi-hit vs. single-hit wasn't directed at you.

 

Ah, I see :P

[Powet]

Agreed, single-wielding still awesome!

[Kurokazin]

Here are three ways of approaching dual wield vs single:

 

1. Have single blades deal more damage against a single target, or reduce the charge damage of dualwielding weapons, OR split the charge damage of dual-wield weapons between each target they hit. So 1 target = 100%, 2 targets = 50%/50%, 3 targets 33%/33%/33%.

 

2. Provide more special abilities to single blade weapons, buff the special abilities that already exist. Mire comes to mind.

 

3. Make single blades and daggers "crit" weapons. Provide them with substantially hire crit values compared to their dual-wield counterparts. Another alternative is improve the slashing arcs of single blades so that headshots are easier to do.

 

Personally, I'd rather be able to customize my weapon from the ground up, rather than pick from a bunch of predefined weapons. Picking the handle, hilt, blade, energy, etc etc. Each part could come with their own benefits and drawbacks. This could also be an exclusive feature to melee weapons(To keep it simple), since the Tenno blades are supposed to be a "part" of the armor. My personal preference is a pretty drastic overhaul, however...

[Moondancer]

You could also have one handed blade only mods that change the viability similar to the thunderbolt mod for Paris.

[ROSING]

+1 all the way!

I think they should have higher crit chance, base damage and charge swing than dual weapons, to make up for the fact that they are slower and don't hit multiple enemies.

And referring to a post earlier in this topic, +1 for improving pressure point, melee crit chance mods and basically all electrical mods, as they all suck right now.

[GrandDaddie]

no need to bufff single weapon, just create dual-versions BP with lvl30 requirement for components, for example dark dagger 30 + dark sword 30 = dual something dark unranked. And yes ofc, those new versions must be somehow stronger or freaki' cooler than current duals.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I agree with this, I can't find a reason to use a long sword over a heavy weapon, or dual weapons, they simply are inferior (minus one or two of the single swords for 1 target damage)

[Eldorian]

Single daggers and swords both need buffs.  Also, basic melee attacks need to be buffed, specifically the pressure point mod.

[ROSING]

no need to bufff single weapon, just create dual-versions BP with lvl30 requirement for components, for example dark dagger 30 + dark sword 30 = dual something dark unranked. And yes ofc, those new versions must be somehow stronger or freaki' cooler than current duals.

 

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with this statement

this doesn't solve the problem, it will just lead to a higher disparity between single weapons and duals, which was the problem in the first place. People want these weapons buffed because they like working with single weapons better, either because that's their preference or playstyle.

Making dual options would be cool, but it is absolutely necessary that these weapons be buffed to be competitive with dual weapons in their own way.