A Few Things I Would Like To See To Improve Panthera's Primary Fire

[Paradoxbomb]

Faster base fire rate- While the Panthera does feel a bit more "rifley" than the Miter, a base fire rate of only 1.7 still feels too sluggish, especially considering you cannot aim down the sights of the Panthera and the projectiles have travel time, making missed shots common and punishing (not to mention it makes headshots tricky, so-so damage, no crits, etc, etc.) At the bare minimum the fire rate could be brought up to 2.0, but anything between 2.0-3.0 would make it a beaut that can make up for it's shortcomings by just being able to fire a bunch of blades.

 

Improved Primary ammo economy- I actually do think making the primary fire cost multiple ammo is a clever idea, since other semi-automatic weapons like the Latron tend to be a bit too forgiving in regards to ammo economy; with the Panthera you have to be a little mindful of your reserves. That said, 5 blades per shot seems like a bit much, personally I would like to see it reduced to 3-4, not only to improve ammo economy but this would also give you a veritable base clip size of 15-20, which is more on par with other semi-auto rifles.

 

Damage(?)- As for damage, personally I would be happy with just the improved fire rate and ammo efficiency, but a lot of people seem to think the damage is underwhelming, so I suppose it's worth re-mentioning. To me any additional damage buffs would be icing on the cake.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Paradoxbomb

[Photon95]

All this, and DE finds some way to allow zoom on weapons with secondary fire. Totally agree.

[geninrising]

The damage is extremely underwhelming considering the need to put a MITER into the build.

The damage should bare minimum be 200 as the weapon has no crit to speak of and a much lower status chance compared to the Miter.

 

Additionally the ammo mechanic is completely worthless as you do not get 5 blades per shot. Thus its ammo pool and clip are highly misleading.

Ammo needs to be 1 for 1 or ammo counts need to be divided by 5 for accurate presentation and clarity. AMMO count equates to how many shots you can take with a weapon and this is just a gimmicky thing in this case as it has no reason to cost 5 ammo per shot.

 

Let's use the Kohm as a good example for using a ammo mechanic in conjunction with a VALID reason.

 

The Kohm uses more ammo because it FIRES MORE SHOTS simple easy to understand and a good design choice. The Panthera uses extra ammo for NO reason than to annoy you, especially considering you get mediocre damage upon primary fire and thus there is no definable reason for this implementation.

 

Mastery fodder. Yet another cool gun is mastery fodder, can we please get some DEvs to see this!

[geninrising]

Zoom is not possible as a separate function in the current mechanics of the game unfortunately. We previously asked for this many times on many other weapons.

[Cryhunter059]

Miter; 125 uncharged(250 charged), 20 magazine, and 50% status

Panthera: 100 damage per shot, 12 magazine (5 ammo cost/shot in a 60), and 10% status

So you get less damage per shot, you can't fire as many shots per magazine, less status, and you can't ADS. Explain to me, how this is an improvement?

[direcyphre]

Miter; 125 uncharged(250 charged), 20 magazine, and 50% status

Panthera: 100 damage per shot, 12 magazine (5 ammo cost/shot in a 60), and 10% status

So you get less damage per shot, you can't fire as many shots per magazine, less status, and you can't ADS. Explain to me, how this is an improvement?

You forgot that it uses Rifle ammo instead of Sniper ammo. The only part that is disappointing is the fire rate at that point.

[Repligon]

Additionally the ammo mechanic is completely worthless as you do not get 5 blades per shot. Thus its ammo pool and clip are highly misleading.

Ammo needs to be 1 for 1 or ammo counts need to be divided by 5 for accurate presentation and clarity. AMMO count equates to how many shots you can take with a weapon and this is just a gimmicky thing in this case as it has no reason to cost 5 ammo per shot.

 

Let's use the Kohm as a good example for using a ammo mechanic in conjunction with a VALID reason.

 

The Kohm uses more ammo because it FIRES MORE SHOTS simple easy to understand and a good design choice. The Panthera uses extra ammo for NO reason than to annoy you, especially considering you get mediocre damage upon primary fire and thus there is no definable reason for this implementation.

I actually think it's quite clever and not misleading at all. It allows to controll ammo consumption without making new ammo type. I even think DE should apply same mechanics on Ogris, Penta, Castanas etc. and some overpowered guns like Boltor Prime.

 

Have you played Borderlands? Every second gun there consumes multiple ammo per shot.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Repligon

[geninrising]

Miter; 125 uncharged(250 charged), 20 magazine, and 50% status

Panthera: 100 damage per shot, 12 magazine (5 ammo cost/shot in a 60), and 10% status

So you get less damage per shot, you can't fire as many shots per magazine, less status, and you can't ADS. Explain to me, how this is an improvement?

My point precisely.

 

I actually think it's quite clever and not misleading at all. It allows to controll ammo consumption without making new ammo type. I even think DE should apply same mechanics on Ogris, Penta, Castanas etc. and some overpowered guns like Boltor Prime.

 

Have you played Borderlands? Every second gun there consumes multiple ammo per shot.

Clever? Control ammo consumption? It does not control ammo consumption, it causes it to be accelerated versus a single shot consumption rate. If a weapon does not fire multiple shots how can you justify costing 5 ammo per shot? I could see costing 5 ammo per second on the blade ONLY if it did 5x the damage of the primary fire, THAT would make sense and be a good mechanic. 

 

Both this weapon and the Miter suffer heinously due to travel time on the projectiles. The projectiles need to be sped up to at least give some indication that this is an "upgrade" or evolution from the Miter's base design. Otherwise this is a sincere downgrade as it has no niche at all except as a gimmick weapon(I would never sacrifice ammo for my primary weapon when I already carry a melee that does a massively larger amount of damage). As it stands now the only benefit of this weapon is rifle ammo versus sniper ammo which is a crying shame given the cool factor.

 

Both primary fire damage and the ammo mechanic must be remedied.

Primary fire should be higher than the Miter no matter what as it is included in the build. 

 

These 2 things are what is necessary to give this gun a place, otherwise it is a waste of a good miter to build it and players should not be forced to sacrifice a decent weapon for a sub-par one.

Edited January 16, 2015 by geninrising

[CHunterX]

Make it an automatic and remove the 5 ammo per shot penalty. With it being semi-auto, you might as well stick to the Miter and shoot uncharged shots to get the same effect (but with better damage, status, charge capabilities, and zoom).

Edited January 16, 2015 by CHunterX

[CHunterX]

You forgot that it uses Rifle ammo instead of Sniper ammo. The only part that is disappointing is the fire rate at that point.

Consumption of Rifle ammo means little when it takes 5x the amount of ammo to shoot the Panthera than it does the Miter, not to mention the damage difference heavily favoring the Miter.

Miter: 72 ammo @ 125/50% per uncharged shot

Panthera: 108 effective ammo @ 100/10% regular shot

Damage tradeoff, lack of zoom (personally doesn't bother me, but regardless), no charge capability, and worse status; the switch to Rifle ammo is meaningless. Keep in mind the Miter wasn't even good to begin with, both weapons need help.

Edited January 16, 2015 by CHunterX

[geninrising]

Consumption of Rifle ammo means little when it takes 5x the amount of ammo to shoot the Panthera than it does the Miter, not to mention the damage difference heavily favoring the Miter.

Miter: 72 ammo @ 125/50% per uncharged shot

Panthera: 108 effective ammo @ 100/10% regular shot

Damage tradeoff, lack of zoom (personally doesn't bother me, but regardless), no charge capability, and worse status; the switch to Rifle ammo is meaningless. Keep in mind the Miter wasn't even good to begin with, both weapons need help.

agreed

[Repligon]

If a weapon does not fire multiple shots how can you justify costing 5 ammo per shot?

Ammo pickup obviously don't contain completed ammo, it probably has materials needed to assemble and shot projectile. Blade just needs 5 times more material than regular bullet.

 

Consumption of Rifle ammo means little when it takes 5x the amount of ammo to shoot the Panthera than it does the Miter

Rifle ammo are much more common than sniper ammo. I yet to run out of ammo at least once.

 

 

All it needs is damage buff and zoom.

[ChaplainFergus]

I personally would love it doing 5x less damage, consuming only 1 ammo per shot and being fully automatic. Counters the fact that you cant zoom, and is similar to play style to the hikou, and also differs it more from the miter

[geninrising]

Ammo pickup obviously don't contain completed ammo, it probably has materials needed to assemble and shot projectile. Blade just needs 5 times more material than regular bullet.

 

Rifle ammo are much more common than sniper ammo. I yet to run out of ammo at least once.

 

 

All it needs is damage buff and zoom.

Point still stand that the ammo pool is misleading and forces player calculation to figure out how many shots are left=flawed

Rifle ammo being MUCH MORE COMMON and still running out of ammo still illustrates my idea that consuming 5 ammo per shot is a mistake.

 

Let me use Kohm as a point of illustration as it uses Shotgun ammo which is less rare than Rifle ammo.

Kohm currently requires you use an ammo mutation mod and actively seek ammo in it's use, because it uses rarer ammo than rifle ammo and uses multiple shots after the first shot is fired.

 

Panthera uses Rifle ammo which is the most common ammo drop in the game because rifles typically are used to fire more shots down range than any other weapon. Panthera also uses up more than one shot per firing FOR NO REASON and currently causes you to run out of ammo.

So it allows less damage downrange for no reason and STILL causes you to run out of ammo? Broken

 

The last has a valid point and something which cannot be helped in the games current iteration-Damage does need to be buffed since it includes a miter in it's composition it is logical that the damage be higher than uncharged shots MINIMUM.

 

As far as the zoom, this has been answered in a previous discussion on the Paracyst.

Currently the game does not allow for three different buttons to perform separate actions with a weapon therefore we cannot provide a separate zoom binding to a weapon with 2 functions already. Or some such, I forgot the precise wording and cannot be bothered to dig it out.

[geninrising]

Miter; 125 uncharged(250 charged), 20 magazine, and 50% status

Panthera: 100 damage per shot, 12 magazine (5 ammo cost/shot in a 60), and 10% status

So you get less damage per shot, you can't fire as many shots per magazine, less status, and you can't ADS. Explain to me, how this is an improvement?

Just going to leave this here for emphasis

 

Consumption of Rifle ammo means little when it takes 5x the amount of ammo to shoot the Panthera than it does the Miter, not to mention the damage difference heavily favoring the Miter.

Miter: 72 ammo @ 125/50% per uncharged shot

Panthera: 108 effective ammo @ 100/10% regular shot

Damage tradeoff, lack of zoom (personally doesn't bother me, but regardless), no charge capability, and worse status; the switch to Rifle ammo is meaningless. Keep in mind the Miter wasn't even good to begin with, both weapons need help.

This too

 

My point precisely.

 

Clever? Control ammo consumption? It does not control ammo consumption, it causes it to be accelerated versus a single shot consumption rate. If a weapon does not fire multiple shots how can you justify costing 5 ammo per shot? I could see costing 5 ammo per second on the blade ONLY if it did 5x the damage of the primary fire, THAT would make sense and be a good mechanic. 

 

Both this weapon and the Miter suffer heinously due to travel time on the projectiles. The projectiles need to be sped up to at least give some indication that this is an "upgrade" or evolution from the Miter's base design. Otherwise this is a sincere downgrade as it has no niche at all except as a gimmick weapon(I would never sacrifice ammo for my primary weapon when I already carry a melee that does a massively larger amount of damage). As it stands now the only benefit of this weapon is rifle ammo versus sniper ammo which is a crying shame given the cool factor.

 

Both primary fire damage and the ammo mechanic must be remedied.

Primary fire should be higher than the Miter no matter what as it is included in the build. 

 

These 2 things are what is necessary to give this gun a place, otherwise it is a waste of a good miter to build it and players should not be forced to sacrifice a decent weapon for a sub-par one.

and this just to ensure little things like facts are not ignored.

[geninrising]

This thread needs more feedback to get this weapon on track. Community sound off!

[geninrising]

Please fix this!

[Paradoxbomb]

Bumping. My initial impressions of the Panthera were pretty good, but both the primary and secondary seem to fall off really quickly, even after the buff to the Ripper mode. I really would like this one go through one more buff/balancing pass rather than become discarded as a mediocre weapon.

 

Granted I still want to see the Primary fire given more attention, but the Secondary mode could use a bit more range and a more reliable stunlock.

[geninrising]

Bumping. My initial impressions of the Panthera were pretty good, but both the primary and secondary seem to fall off really quickly, even after the buff to the Ripper mode. I really would like this one go through one more buff/balancing pass rather than become discarded as a mediocre weapon.

 

Granted I still want to see the Primary fire given more attention, but the Secondary mode could use a bit more range and a more reliable stunlock.

As far as the secondary goes it's well...secondary. The primary fire should be stronger than the base miter shots and should not cost 5 ammo per.

It's just not worth using atm based on those two facts.  The item requires a decent weapon in order to obtain a worse weapon. That alone is reason for a buff.

 

Increase base damage to more than 150(miter's base damage)

Remove ammo mechanic or make it burst fire. Simple easy fix.