Nerfing Nova For The Sake Of Challenging Missions.

[WhiskeyGolf]

You mean Fireball?  WoF is more of a supplemental damage button (and now it's also a defensive buff with the new proc rate) than a bread and butter damage skill.

 

You can equip Narrow Minded with pretty much no downside except MPrime explosion radius.  

 

Actually, no, I can't, because I don't have Narrow Minded. :V After 17 months of near-continuous daily play. RNG has not yet smiled on me. >_< (Hell, I only got Fang Prime last week and I've been chasing it since September 2013.)

 

 

Nova dies 1 hit from Bombard? Just how bad do you play Nova or how awful do you mod her? Maxed Vitality? Maxed Redirection? One word, cancer. People are too stewpid to realize that Nova cannot be built with HP/Shield mods because those falls off VERY quickly. Or they probably just force it into their argument because they don't want their easy mode be removed :^)

 

Corrupted Bombard. If you don't realise that, you haven't been doing much void.

 

 

Normal Bombards are a threat to Nova anyway, but Corrupted Bombards take it to a whole nother level of lethality. I have gotten killed in ridiculously short order by Corrupted Bombards while using Rhino Prime - Rhino Prime who is significantly tankier than Nova.

 

I would disagree with characterising Zephyr as squishy, however. Zephyr has pretty high shield and health stats, meaning that she gets some pretty beastly total figures, and Turbulence is one of the best CC abilities in the game.

[LisRestall]

-snip-

I won't bother arguing with you because you totally have no idea what you're talking about and haven't understand a thing on the stuff I kept mentioning.

[Revel72]

Can you then comment what I posted? LisRestall. It is above WhiskeyGolf's post.

[LisRestall]

Can you then comment what I posted? LisRestall. It is above WhiskeyGolf's post.

OMG, believe me. Ever since Corrupted Mods were introduced, I was all for removing them especially Fleeting Expertise. When it was introduced, Warframe's balance suddenly went way off but sadly, we can't do anything about it anymore. Also with Primed Continuity and Constitution, Mprime would still have a very huge range due to it's high base range of 35 meters.

Edited January 28, 2015 by LisRestall

[Revel72]

Though I don't think nerfing Nova would be the most decision besides. She was nerfed quite a lot already. What I can say that Nova is much more balanced than what she was when she was released. Just take a look on what she was when she was released. + IF DE nerfs Nova now. That would be big impact to players who doesn't have the content what vets has. Nerf mods NOT the warframe.

[LisRestall]

Though I don't think nerfing Nova would be the most decision besides. She was nerfed quite a lot already. What I can say that Nova is much more balanced than what she was when she was released. Just take a look on what she was when she was released. + IF DE nerfs Nova now. That would be big impact to players who doesn't have the content what vets has. Nerf mods NOT the warframe.

The thing is, the nerf came with a buff, making the nerf so-so and this is something really wierd. They increased it's base range from 25m to 35m while still literally doing the same thing the old Mprime could, just slower but technically, this slow wave expansion doesn't even matter if you're using it for like every 10 seconds.

[Revel72]

If we are speaking about standard Nova. We shouldn't do anything else than nerf the mods. Nova is a glass cannon with huge amount of crowd control. There is a difference between instant and expanding in decent speed. Enemies like Ballista and Sniper Crewman can just tick you off without swetting + nullifiers.

 

I would more consider using Molecular Prime every 50 seconds. Since I can rely on the slow when mobile defending. If you can not deal with Nova. Do not play as her sell her away and quit the missions where you see her. I will be continuing my Wormhole trolling a little while.

[LisRestall]

If we are speaking about standard Nova. We shouldn't do anything else than nerf the mods. Nova is a glass cannon with huge amount of crowd control. There is a difference between instant and expanding in decent speed. Enemies like Ballista and Sniper Crewman can just tick you off without swetting + nullifiers.

 

I would more consider using Molecular Prime every 50 seconds. Since I can rely on the slow when mobile defending. If you can not deal with Nova. Do not play as her sell her away and quit the missions where you see her. I will be continuing my Wormhole trolling a little while.

Nerfing the mods will indirectly nerf other frames as well which is a problem because MOST frames doesn't even come close to what Nova can do. Nova isn't a glass cannon for god sake, how many times should I be repeating this, slap in a P. Flow + Quick Thinking and you got instant 1.5k+ HP where armor can also be applied. That's TANKY. Not to mention it also solves the problem of getting 1 hit by Nullifiers past 30mins. Which is better, dying with a pathetic 700+ HP with maxed Vitality mod or surviving a fatal hit but uses up most of your energy. I will repeat, she isn't squishy at all, just learn to utilize Quick Thinking, the mod is available to be used, not some card collection.

 

A small range is a must for mobile defense if you're trying to rank at the same time thus Fleeting Expertise is highly suggested to be used. This solves the problem of enemies not being able to get near as well as energy management problems.

 

 

If you can not deal with Nova. Do not play as her sell her away and quit the missions where you see her. I will be continuing my Wormhole trolling a little while.

The most dumbest and pointless argument being repeated here all over.

Edited January 28, 2015 by LisRestall

[Revel72]

Though even the other warframes are quite stupidly powerful like Nova. Saryn does Nova's job much more faster except the higher we go on enemy levels. Besides Quick thinking was also nerfed (though I don't know is it now okay) does nerfing Nova really solve a problem. You are thinking this in individual person perspective while Digital Extreme needs to think on Designer and player perspective and I am not speaking that they will be thinking in single player perspective. Do you know how difficult that is?

 

All you will need to do is wait. You are not helping by arguing as one person. Because you are a vet doesn't mean that you can decide what is good for a new player. I have had been on new player's position you have had been on this position. This whole thread is pointless and needs a lock. Until you really think the thing on designer, vet, new player and decent player perspective. I am not saying that all of the mods needs to be nerfed. Corrupted and some of the dual stat mods could use some adjustment.

[WhiskeyGolf]

I won't bother arguing with you because you totally have no idea what you're talking about and haven't understand a thing on the stuff I kept mentioning.

 

Yes, that's a very good way to claim victory without putting in any effort. Good thing you can get away with that on these boards!

 

And you seem to not have understood that I'm making an observation, and trying to note that throughout this thread, most posters have been talking about Void and the Bombards showing up there, which are Corrupted Bombards, whereas you appeared to be assuming the discussion was about normal Bombards. Good job on that stunning intellect and understanding of yours! :V

 

My comment on Zephyr was directed to Soul.Fire, though admittedly I overlooked tagging him.

 

The thing is, the nerf came with a buff, making the nerf so-so and this is something really wierd. They increased it's base range from 25m to 35m while still literally doing the same thing the old Mprime could, just slower but technically, this slow wave expansion doesn't even matter if you're using it for like every 10 seconds.

Only if you're not using Fleeting Expertise; if you are, the shorter wave duration means that your wave range is only 17.5 meters. Also, you can get faster wave propagation with Natural Talent.

 

Also, you keep insisting that Nova isn't a glass cannon with Primed Flow and Quick Thinking. The problem is that not everybody has Primed Flow and Quick Thinking. So what happens to those players then?

[Clats01]

This thread is still going, really? why even? First off there is nothing wrong with Nova, second is you want a challenge then go into a game with another frame. That is all that needs to be said.

[WhiskeyGolf]

This thread is still going, really? why even? First off there is nothing wrong with Nova, second is you want a challenge then go into a game with another frame. That is all that needs to be said.

Some people want to see everything nerfed into uselessness. And have forgotten what it's like to be a new player without access to all the fancy tricks and mods they use. :V

 

I do have to admit that despite the Nova nerf making life more dangerous, it's also led to playing Nova feeling more dangerous and exciting again - at least for me, anyhow.

Edited January 28, 2015 by WhiskeyGolf

[LisRestall]

-snip-

Yea, I'm totally talking about normal bombards here when I always use T4 Voids on my sample scenarios. Yup, definitely normal bombards.

 

A normal Nova with 600 energy using non-primed Flow is equal to 1440 HP with Quick Thinking. Flow and Quick Thinking is ridiculously easy to get, arguing that "What if players don't have these mods" means they are terrible players WHICH is exactly the reason why they think Nova is squishy.

 

Are you really just gonna use Fleeting Expertise to maintain a good range on Mprime? Well, maybe you would but obviously, what I meant by using Fleeting Expertise is being able to balance the expansion range of Mprime along with the usual meta setup.

 

You just went here and read the last page, totally clueless you went ahead and post your non-sense. Don't ever quote me again.

[WhiskeyGolf]

Yea, I'm totally talking about normal bombards here when I always use T4 Voids on my sample scenarios. Yup, definitely normal bombards.

 

A normal Nova with 600 energy using non-primed Flow is equal to 1440 HP with Quick Thinking. Flow and Quick Thinking is ridiculously easy to get, arguing that "What if players don't have these mods" means they are terrible players WHICH is exactly the reason why they think Nova is squishy.

 

Are you really just gonna use Fleeting Expertise to maintain a good range on Mprime? Well, maybe you would but obviously, what I meant by using Fleeting Expertise is being able to balance the expansion range of Mprime along with the usual meta setup.

 

You just went here and read the last page, totally clueless you went ahead and post your non-sense. Don't ever quote me again.

Fair enough, I misread the first thing. Again, I'm not disagreeing that Corrupted Bombards are bad news so why are you being all aggressive?

 

A normal Nova with maxed Flow has 450 energy. Just FYI. To get to 600 energy, you'd need to have Primed Flow. And after playing for 17 months and 486 hours I still don't have Quick Thinking. *shrug* If lacking a single rare mod makes me a bad player by your metric, so be it. All hail the Quick Thinking master race!

 

And no, I wouldn't use Fleeting Expertise to maintain range, I'd slot in Constitution and Primed Continuity, which is what I do on my Speednova. I run Fleeting Expertise on my usual close combat MP spam Nova, recognising that the only way of mitigating my range decrease is 1) duration mods and 2) getting closer. I will probably drop Fleeting Expertise and Streamline for Primed Streamline (when it inevitably happens sooner or later), which solves the duration/range issue.

 

Also, the correct spelling is "nonsense", there's no hyphen in between. :V

Edited January 28, 2015 by WhiskeyGolf

[NytroBeast]

Nerfing the mods will indirectly nerf other frames as well which is a problem because MOST frames doesn't even come close to what Nova can do. Nova isn't a glass cannon for god sake, how many times should I be repeating this, slap in a P. Flow + Quick Thinking and you got instant 1.5k+ HP where armor can also be applied. That's TANKY. Not to mention it also solves the problem of getting 1 hit by Nullifiers past 30mins. Which is better, dying with a pathetic 700+ HP with maxed Vitality mod or surviving a fatal hit but uses up most of your energy. I will repeat, she isn't squishy at all, just learn to utilize Quick Thinking, the mod is available to be used, not some card collection.

 

A small range is a must for mobile defense if you're trying to rank at the same time thus Fleeting Expertise is highly suggested to be used. This solves the problem of enemies not being able to get near as well as energy management problems.

 

 

The most dumbest and pointless argument being repeated here all over.

 

Repeating "Put in a QT and Prime Flow and shes sooooooo OP" is a moot point. You can literally use those to mods on any warframe and have just as easy a time. She's not the only one with a base of 150 energy. Arguments like this are just saying with the right build she can be tanky, which can be said for many other frames.

[Dull]

Kind of tired reading posts like this, seems to be people that aren't hosting their own void missions or using their own keys. Easy solution, host your own game, invite who you want.

[WhiskeyGolf]

Repeating "Put in a QT and Prime Flow and shes sooooooo OP" is a moot point. You can literally use those to mods on any warframe and have just as easy a time. She's not the only one with a base of 150 energy. Arguments like this are just saying with the right build she can be tanky, which can be said for many other frames.

 

I'm kinda skeptical of the whole "Quick Thinking and Primed Flow and she's tanky" argument because caster frames need that energy, and I've run out of energy with Nova before.

 

*shrug* On the other hand, Large Energy Restores are a thing, so... maybe? *shrug* But it's a moot point for me, lacking Quick Thinking.

[NytroBeast]

Edit: made a redundant point from my previous post, my bad.

Edited January 28, 2015 by NytroBeast

[nekrojiji]

I'm kinda skeptical of the whole "Quick Thinking and Primed Flow and she's tanky" argument because caster frames need that energy, and I've run out of energy with Nova before.

 

*shrug* On the other hand, Large Energy Restores are a thing, so... maybe? *shrug* But it's a moot point for me, lacking Quick Thinking.

Tower 1 Survival ..... or Tower 2 Survival  do those for 30 minutes .... and you'll get one ...... or ... 5p or something from other players.

Edited January 28, 2015 by nekrojiji

[IlluminaZero]

Kind of weird to be agreeing with Azawarau early on, but yeah Nova's "nerf" was a ridiculously huge buff in utility.

 

Screw Ember's "buff," please nerf Ember like you nerfed Nova DE.

[Revel72]

IlluminaZero. You can not really ask something like that. They are extremely difficult to execute those buffs and nerfs. This buff for Ember was good and I can see myself playing a lot more Ember.

[WhiskeyGolf]

Tower 1 Survival ..... or Tower 2 Survival  do those for 30 minutes .... and you'll get one ...... or ... 5p or something from other players.

...goddamnit Lotus stop giving me fusion cores >_<

Edited January 28, 2015 by WhiskeyGolf

[IlluminaZero]

IlluminaZero. You can not really ask something like that. They are extremely difficult to execute those buffs and nerfs. This buff for Ember was good and I can see myself playing a lot more Ember.

Value of Ember's "buff" is debatable, especially as feedback from Ember's "buff" was generally negative going from such topics as this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/388985-ember-changes-post-15110-megathread/

 

You also completely missed the subtext of my post.

Edited January 28, 2015 by IlluminaZero

[Airwolfen]

Repeating "Put in a QT and Prime Flow and shes sooooooo OP" is a moot point. You can literally use those to mods on any warframe and have just as easy a time. She's not the only one with a base of 150 energy. Arguments like this are just saying with the right build she can be tanky, which can be said for many other frames.

 

My reaction to it as well. Though I do use it on nova together with a 200% p flow but I would not take that in my point of her being tanky or anything as a lot of the time I just sit there with only 2 hp and living on energy. but it does not make her tanky. Quick thinking is what is the tanky component in that case.

She is just a squish beyond QT

And the other component of "moving around alot" is just evasion, and in this case it also has nothing to do with Nova her survivability as the point of HER being squishy or tanky is taking in mind when you actually get hit, not when you evade them.

[.Re-light.]

   Ok, so I just tried to see how far I can go in T4 survival with Nova.

 

  I am talking about solo because I believe that intentions on how the game works are more matched in solo due to having 0 lag then online where all kind of connections can sometimes have an effect of almost being untouchable by mobs. I can reach 40 minutes with most frames that have damage mitigation, I can reach 50 with most frames that have hard CC and I can reach 60+ with one frame.

 

  Nova - 31 minutes. Seemed easy, then when 1 shots started happening, I hit a brick wall. I haven't forma'd her so I just stick with both redirection and vitality. I suppose with QT + Flow, I would probably menage 40. Build is max slow 75%, max duration and max efficiency. I don't consider builds that requires using energy restores (without eximus energy drain) good.

 

  My starting position was that Nova is balanced, but I did get persuaded for a while that 1 skill on her kit is so much better the all other comparable abilities.

 

    Well guess what, when the game works how it is supposed to, 0 lag, those 75% slow is not as OP as some would have you believe. Rockets still hit you 50% no matter how hard you try to avoid them, bullets still hurt and propositions on lowering the slow cap even as little as 50% would in my mind make her CC almost subpar. The fact that as a whole she does reduce enemy fire output by 75% is true, however, consider this: you weren't taking those 100 percent of damage to begin with. You were either utilising every damage avoidance tool in your arsenal or you were a dead Tenno.

   Making M Prime last less would just mean you would be spamming it more often. The wave is slow and if I am not careful I copter much faster then it spreads so that is also a drawback.

 

I am a new Nova player, the regular one was, for me, just mastery fodder. Back then, Nova was "MPrime and steal all the kills, yeah!"

 

   This Nova however is different, she is a team player, she is also fast and with directional melee, most of my runs in void are 50% airborne. I find her very fun exactly because of how MPrime works, meaning that spam doesn't really get you anywhere. (spam being - having to use CC abilities more then once in every 20 seconds).

Only other frame that comes close is Nyx, 14 seconds (again my preference), but with Chaos, and how little mods you need to use to maximize Chaos, I feel very tanky with her. (red, vit, flow, qt). Chaos is also not unpredictable, if enemy is closer to another enemy then you, he won't shoot you. I fail to see what is unpredictable about that. +the stun.

 

      Most avid advocates here are old players, that have maxed out everything (so do I), however they are missing the point seeking challenge through (in this case) balancing  a frame that is already in a pretty good place (null star could use a tweak to stagger or something).

 

 Nova is slow and explosions. If anything needs to be nerfed, take out the damage multiplier not the choice to play around with various speed of enemies affected by it, even if in most cases it will be max slow.

 

 

   We will be getting harder enemies so sit back and relax.

 

I have more playtime then 99% of posters here, about 40% of my time being spent in conclaves but even subtracting that, I will still have more then 95%. I still find the game fun and play it daily. But I don't have a favorite frame, favorite weapon and the only part of my gear that stays the same from mission to mission is the Carrier. The customization in Warframe is big. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Hydroid and Ember in Voids but untill that day comes, be creative people and let others be creative too.

 

  The balancing part is hard because you want both new people and old people happy.