Probably An Awful Idea As A Replacement For Desecrate But Posting It Anyway.

[(XBOX)II Orochi II]

I fully support this, it would give him the freedom to not be a farmer. I think that this image is very relevant:

 

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/777/234/d39.png

[ThePredicament]

Just make desecrate into an aura, buff the other skills.

[Seanjuju]

I've never felt that desecrate had a place in warframe. As always, I support any alternative.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

So we get 350 threads a day about how Warframe is nothing but a grindfest.....but Nekros making it easier to farm is also a complaint???  Apparently this is the night for me missing something because this isn't the first thread that made zero sense to me tonight.  

[EvanTheNewbie]

So we get 350 threads a day about how Warframe is nothing but a grindfest.....but Nekros making it easier to farm is also a complaint???  Apparently this is the night for me missing something because this isn't the first thread that made zero sense to me tonight.  

Pressing one button 20 times a minute doesn't exactly make a fun experience.

[ThePredicament]

This likely isn't going to solve that.

[akira_him]

Urr

After this change, still 3333333 with min duration build of same reason as nyx's chaos

Current state, at least I Can kill everything first before using 3

[Luminide]

This stuff is awesome

Edited January 29, 2015 by Luminide

[Angelshard]

So we get 350 threads a day about how Warframe is nothing but a grindfest.....but Nekros making it easier to farm is also a complaint???  Apparently this is the night for me missing something because this isn't the first thread that made zero sense to me tonight.  

 

Problem is that Desecrate is a band aid that doesn't improve the game or deals with the issue of grinding. Also it locks Necros in a spam 3 role, instead of letting him play as a frame. And it makes it neccesarry to bring one if you're farminmg resources. What we need is a better balance between grind (it's what the game is about after all) and progress (not having to kill Alad V 6 times to get two neural sensors) not an ability that affects loot drops.

 

All in all Desecrate doesn't bring anything positive to the game and abilities that let you affect the loot table is something I'm personally against as it will almost always fail to deal with the real issue and at the same time delegate the frame to a boring role,

 

Same reason why I think this threads OP suggestion should remove reroll from it's effects

[Separius]

Just turn it into a corpse explosion that deals 70/80/90/100% of the deceased's hp as damage to all targets within a 2.5/3/4/5 meter radius of the corpse. At least then it'd be funny. Also the more gore the better. Keep its LS / HP / Energy restore spawning feature and make the current Desecrate's loot-table reroll thing into an augment for the new ability. F***.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Separius

[Liminal]

Problem is that Desecrate is a band aid that doesn't improve the game or deals with the issue of grinding. Also it locks Necros in a spam 3 role, instead of letting him play as a frame. And it makes it neccesarry to bring one if you're farminmg resources. What we need is a better balance between grind (it's what the game is about after all) and progress (not having to kill Alad V 6 times to get two neural sensors) not an ability that affects loot drops.

Indeed! However, nerfing the band aid doesn't do anything to improve the resource grind, and since I don't really trust DE to fix grinding before reducing desecrate rerolls (I'm sorry, but I just don't :( ) I'd rather leave it alone until after we get a more reliable way to get cells, neurodes and sensors.

[PsychoticMarik]

Yet another rather great idea for a replacement to desecrate.

 

The only thing I'm still not fond of is the rerolling loot tables still being in affect.

I'm against that entirely since its still a band aid fix(and just flat out horrible design)and as long as thats part of the ability at all its still gonna be his primary focus no matter how you change it. People will still *@##$ that your chains arent up whenever its not on cd.

 

The idea behind changing desecrate is to add to his options as a whole without forcing him into building around rerolling for loot. If you keep the mechanic its still gonna be what he's forced to do.

 

We want him to be able to have varying builds that are viable, and not centered on something that shouldnt exist to begin with.

 

Otherwise I like it.

[Kruglov]

Urr

After this change, still 3333333 with min duration build of same reason as nyx's chaos

Current state, at least I Can kill everything first before using 3

 

 

If you go for a min duration min str build (which Nekros has to use now to spam Desecrate) you will only be hitting maybe 1-2 enemies if that at a time. And once they get stronger you wont be able to kill them in the brief amount of time required before the effect wares off.

 

You would want to build for Strength and Duration so as many enemies as possible get hit by the chains for as long of a duration as you can manage, ensuring as many get the 30% chance to roll extra loot as possible. Strength and Duration being of course, what Nekros other abilities need to function. You no longer would need to hit 3 constantly at enemies that are already dead.

You would simply cast it on a vast crowd of living enemies ONCE and then kill them at your leisure, while also getting the benefit of not having to nerf the rest of Nekros janky skillset.

Edited February 2, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed rudeness

[Exact_Value]

Completely against , firstly nekros is great at defense and offense especially after the recent buff , he even has an augment that lets him instantly revive if you so desire and all of his abilities except for the first whitch still has utility scales perfectly and is easily endgame , and lets refrain from your absolutely absurd "cancer" accusation with the simple statement that he is a Support frame , he supplies his team with Health , Energy , Ammo and extra Loot , the truth is , he can be anything you want him to be but was intended as support , no one is forcing your hand at the 3 key , but eventually you realize how useful it is from even an economic perspective of warframe (or when you need health and\or energy during whatever run you are doing) , this game is already a grindfest as it is , topped off by RNG , Nekros was the frame that turned me around to keep playing when i hit grindwalls over things i wanted , farming isint fun? the change you request will make it even less fun , unless you enjoy killing the same enemy over and over untill you get what you want , you completely ignored starting players aswell that REALLY need some catching up to do with players such as myself , you want to chain damage so much around enemies? Make a Trinity Link build , maybe?

P.S. Warframe is not a moba even if you saw some elements that resemble a moba , it's not , it never will be it was never intended to be so god forbid they actually try to be more like one.(im sure there are some great concepts and ideas in them , but seriously , wrong genre)

Edited February 4, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Removed Rudeness

[SnakeWildlife]

Love the original posts idea. Definitely would work.

 

Also, increase Nekros Summons damage multiplier from +150% to +300%   Summons are still terrible, plus all that AI stuff that needs fixing blah blah.

 

Summons got a buff, but werent buffed anywhere near to what they should be. Still weaksauce.

[KyrosQF]

In my opinion, just keep desecrate the way it is but make this ability also explode the dead dealing damage to mobs near the corpses.

 

A corpse explosion fills the gap as the utility is still there while having offensive power that follows the dead/corpse manipulating frame.

[Exact_Value]

In my opinion, just keep desecrate the way it is but make this ability also explode the dead dealing damage to mobs near the corpses.

 

A corpse explosion fills the gap as the utility is still there while having offensive power that follows the dead/corpse manipulating frame.

You nailed it.

This game NEEDS more exploding corpses.

[LasersGoPewPew]

better idea:make it so killed enemies chain to nearby enemies up to the cap-akin to M primes chain reaction that way max duration builds can function/sync with the rest of his kit/necro theme....... chaining enemies and binding them, then on death the plague spreads and you summon them  back as slaves....... it could  be a target required power like soul punch or it could be like mags pull where it has a cone of affect... just anything that fits his theme.......NOT corpse fondler -_-

[Kruglov]

In my opinion, just keep desecrate the way it is but make this ability also explode the dead dealing damage to mobs near the corpses.

 

A corpse explosion fills the gap as the utility is still there while having offensive power that follows the dead/corpse manipulating frame.

 

No because the problem with that is that it would end up being a flat number-based damage ability.

 

These types of damage abilities are never good.

This is why % based abilities or ones that cause status effects are more popular and much better.

 

Nobody used pre-buff Oberon for this exact reason. All he did was non-scaling damage.

This is why nobody is using Ember even post-buff. It's all non-scaling damage.

Which means once enemies get above level 30, you stop being a space wizard and turn into Master Chief or some other generic shooter game protagonist.

 

 

Simultaneously, the other problems with the corpse explosion idea is:

 

a.) corpses are not always the same for clients and hosts which is why current Desecrate is as finnicky and unreliable as it is even with its 90% success chance. we need to stop relying on ragdolls which already have different locations for most players on a squad.

 

b.) rooms in warframe are generally spacious and ensuring enemies are near dead bodies outside of choke points is difficult. the reason corpse explosions work well in dungeon crawler games like Diablo and Path of Exile is because those games are almost nothing but thin hallways and labyrinths. at the same time, if you make the explosions huge, you wind up with the same problem Nova has where it blinds everyone and you can't see a thing.

 

c.) if a Nova or Saryn is present, nobody can see the dead bodies and thus time their explosions appropriately, which is a problem the old Desecrate used to have that DE kinda sorta fixed but not really

 

d.) it requires an enemy to already be DEAD to function. if Nekros cannot kill an enemy to use the ability, it's usefulness goes into the toilet. this is why Nekros can't function very well in Survival if he doesnt have a squad protecting him 24/7 and leading him to dead bodies. this is also why he makes a mediocre support. his team has to support HIM and not the other way around, which is why its bad.

 

e.) the other problem with it requiring a dead enemy is that supportive abilities in games are designed around improving survivability or increasing damage in some way. if an enemy is dead already, the job is done. you don't need to worry about a dead enemy. its dead. and making it explode just adds a slightly-offense-based gimmick to what is already a terrible spammy ability that just increases loot and nothing else.

 

f.) corpse explosion only works once. once you explode the corpses, they are gone. meaning if you burst them and a crapload of napalms walk into the room, you have no way of helping your team kill them. best you can do is scare them away. this is the same problem Shadows of the Dead has where there is a hard physical limit on how often you can use the ability and how effective it will be.

 

The reason my idea works is the same reason Trinity's link works.

It's % based, it works with Nekros other abilities, it helps teammates kill LIVING enemies and not stand around boring dead ones, and it still can create more loot without being abused like Desecrate currently is.

[KyrosQF]

a.) corpses are not always the same for clients and hosts which is why current Desecrate is as finnicky and unreliable as it is even with its 90% success chance. we need to stop relying on ragdolls which already have different locations for most players on a squad.

 

This isn't really a problem with the idea, but rather programming issues. You could say the same thing for several different skills.

 

b.) rooms in warframe are generally spacious and ensuring enemies are near dead bodies outside of choke points is difficult. the reason corpse explosions work well in dungeon crawler games like Diablo and Path of Exile is because those games are almost nothing but thin hallways and labyrinths. at the same time, if you make the explosions huge, you wind up with the same problem Nova has where it blinds everyone and you can't see a thing.

 

So the problem would not be the explosion. The problem would be making the explosion graphic super huge and obnoxious. I didn't suggest super huge, obnoxious explosions...so why is this strawman even here?

 

c.) if a Nova or Saryn is present, nobody can see the dead bodies and thus time their explosions appropriately, which is a problem the old Desecrate used to have that DE kinda sorta fixed but not really

 

That's not a problem with corpse explosion, that's really a problem with everything else (Including aiming your weapons and such).

 

d.) it requires an enemy to already be DEAD to function. if Nekros cannot kill an enemy to use the ability, it's usefulness goes into the toilet. this is why Nekros can't function very well in Survival if he doesnt have a squad protecting him 24/7 and leading him to dead bodies. this is also why he makes a mediocre support. his team has to support HIM and not the other way around, which is why its bad.

 

You can kill tons of enemies without powers because weapons are very potent. This isn't like some diablo 2 summon necro that's built terribly.

 

e.) the other problem with it requiring a dead enemy is that supportive abilities in games are designed around improving survivability or increasing damage in some way. if an enemy is dead already, the job is done. you don't need to worry about a dead enemy. its dead. and making it explode just adds a slightly-offense-based gimmick to what is already a terrible spammy ability that just increases loot and nothing else.

 

Like corpse explosion in other games, its meant to be used in special ways. You don't run into a room spamming it, there's a somewhat unique depth in how you use it...you kill a few things then blow up the corpses...causing more corpses....causing more explosions...causing more corpses...and extra loot rolls on all of it. Or lure enemies to the corpses to chain reaction it further etc...

 

f.) corpse explosion only works once. once you explode the corpses, they are gone. meaning if you burst them and a crapload of napalms walk into the room, you have no way of helping your team kill them. best you can do is scare them away. this is the same problem Shadows of the Dead has where there is a hard physical limit on how often you can use the ability and how effective it will be.

 

Corpse Explosion isn't meant to solve all of your problems and hypothetical situations. It's ok if it has weaknesses.

[KyrosQF]

No because the problem with that is that it would end up being a flat number-based damage ability.

 

These types of damage abilities are never good.

This is why % based abilities or ones that cause status effects are more popular and much better.

 

Corpse explosion type abilities usually use a percentage of the corpse's HP to deal damage. It's up to DE to balance the % and/or flat damage of the explosion. There's zero reason to assume that it will be a flat number based damage ability...at least when you look at other games that turn corpses into bombs.

 

This type of damage scaling also has depth. Blowing up a Crewman corpse isn't going to be as effective as blowing up the corpse of a Corrupted Bombard.

[Acegikmo]

I'd rather just see a remake of Nekros where he's more of a support Warframe that fights through his minions (like a necromancer should).

[NocturneOfSolace]

This is actually brilliant

[Burns2PvP]

So assuming whenever DE decide to change Nekros they realize there is no way to cure the cancer that is desecrate.

 

And it is a cancer, let's not even beat around the bush. It's designed specifically to make farming easier, offers no offensive potential, it's defensive potential drops off as enemies start dying less and damage climbs, plus you have to mod for it to use it often.

 

If you're using a summon build for Nekros (ie, strength and duration which benefits every ability except desecrate) you will rarely use desecrate as it eats up quite a bit of energy and its energy ball drop chance isnt as reliable as the chance for health orbs.

It also doesn't benefit your other abilities in any way. Soul punch, Terrify, Shadows might as well exist in a seperate dimension.

 

DE made a new version of it called Despoil that benefits Nekros players who use Equilibrium, which is already the mod of choice for most desecration builds as it is. But Despoil just allows players to make hybrid builds and doesnt fix the real problem of Desecration:

 

- useless offensively

- almost useless defensively

- pidgeon-holes Nekros into being Farmy McLoot and not cool skeleton ghost bondage wizard

 

 

 

A thought hit me (while looking at other rpg's) for an ability that could be good both offensively and defensively for Nekros that gives him an ability no other Warframe has, and would possibly be a very good (maybe even slightly overpowered) supportive ability to help out his team.

And would also not completely take away the extra loot people tend to use him for.

And most importantly, DE already have the code for it with Trinity's link that they could reuse parts of!

 

So here it is:

 

 

 

CHAINS OF DESECRATION:

"Nekros seals the fates of enemies, forcing them to share each other's pain."

 

- Nekros links together 4, 5, 6, 7 enemies in a 15 meter radius

- enemies are now linked together by ghostly chains

- chains last 6, 7, 8, 9 seconds

- all enemies chained now SHARE 15% of their damage taken

- enemies that die while under the effects have 15%, 20%, 25%, 30% chance of rerolling their loot table

- enemies that die while under the effects have a 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% chance of dropping health orbs

- number of enemies connected affected by Power Strength

- damage shared by chained enemies affected by Power Strength

- range of chain cast area affected by Power Range

- chain duration affected by Power Duration

- chance of rerolling loot NOT AFFECTED by mods

- chance of dropping health orbs NOT AFFECTED by mods

- cannot be recast until duration ends or all chained enemies have been slain

- does not stack with other Chains of Desecration

 

 

VISUAL EXAMPLE:

 

 

eh? Eh? Now Nekros has a unique method of making enemies take damage that is purely supportive, works with every power and weapon in the game including his own, is still spooky themed, and even still has a chance of causing more loot to occur.

 

and for the augment....

 

BONDS OF DESPOILMENT.

 

- Nekros sacrifices 90, 80, 70, 60 health to cast instead of energy

- chained enemies now all share debuffs and procs

- every enemy killed while chained creates a Shadow of itself that immediately attacks nearby enemies

- Shadows have same stats as ones created by Shadows of the Dead

- Shadows created by this ability have a 50% chance of dropping loot and a health orb as well

- does not stack with other Chains of Desecration or Bonds of Despoilment

 

 

Thoughts? Is this something that could fix one of Nekros many problems? Or have I created an unholy steaming pile the likes of which make women cry out in agony and men gnash their teeth?

 

(note: i am fully aware this wont ever get ingame considering what happened with ember)

Put this in fan concepts.

[MotherofHermes]

my thoughts here: 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396165-another-desecrate-replacement-idea-stealth/