What About The Lato Vandal?

[FateZero]

Inb4 downvotes, I know and am fully expecting it. So come at me bro! (Well since there is no more downvotes, how about upvotes then :P?)

 

Inb4 Nothing constructive, I know and am fully doing it on purpose. This topic is to get opinions and perhaps reasons why you guys whined about the Braton Vandal and Braton, but nothing about the Lato series weapons.

 

Why hasn't anyone complained about Lato Vandal and Lato? Those two guns have the same problem as everyone complained about with the Bratons. One has higher damage, unobtainable, lower fire rate, polarity slot, and higher accuracy than the other as a Vandal was originally suppose to be compared to the normal version of the weapon. So why nothing about the Lato and all about the Braton?

 

inb4 something else blah blah blah. I have every intention to provide a much more detailed and better feedback on the Braton issue and maybe the Lato after I get some responses to the topic listed above. I want people's honest responses without presenting a perspective already. Like what I would suggest for the issue.
 

inb4 title has whiners. If you're really taking it to heart and is butt hurt over it, you really need lighten up bro and take a break. (Title changed yet again, so I'll just rename the title :/

 

TLDR/Clarity: I want the opinion of people about the Lato Vandal compared to the Lato. I am not calling for a Lato Vandal Nerf and/or a Lato Buff.

 

Notes:

 

LEAVE MY LATO VANDAL ALONE! HE IS MY FAVORITE WEAPON!

^Similar reaction to the Braton issue no?
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I think everyone just cares about primary weapons more?

 

Well, it doesn't help that there's just very popular and likeable pistols to begin with that anyone can get with some effort. Twin Vipers and Akboltos to stand out in my mind. Let's not forget the Lex being an absolute monster for damage when properly modded.

So if they added more "popular and likeable" primary weapons, do you think the issue with the Braton Vandal would have still came up?
^Response
"Probably not, but that's maybe me being too optimistic."

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Much more people have the Lato Vandal, It was distributed widely and even potato'd. Braton Vandal however, was only available for a shorter period of time.

 

In short, there are less jealous people for Lato Vandals. Not significant enough to cause an uproar like Bratons and Braton Vandals.

So presented with the same issues, the amount of people was the main reason?
^Response

"Yes. Because of the fact that a lot more people have Lato Vandals, so it wasn't much a "special" weapon. Although in all reality I find that the Lato Vandal has much more stats buffs than the Lato as compared to Braton Vandals to Bratons before the Braton buff.

 

In short, yes you are right; the explanation being; people just wanted an exclusive special weapon. In order to achieve that, they will utilize everything in their arsenal, posting multiple threads; bring Braton Vandal back, buff Bratons, etc etc. I'm sure we have seen enough of them."

 

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The Lato Vandal is my favourite pistol in the game. Decent fire rate and damage, plus it looks and sounds completely badass. 
Yeah, why hasn't anyone complained about that?

Just cause.
Expanded reasoning below by CheeseHasLeafs

Honestly, I don't know why people were complaining about the Braton Vandal in the first place. It wasn't the best rifle out there. Certainly it was better than the standard Braton, but so were many other guns. The Boltor was better than the Braton, if harder to obtain and aim. 

And come on, the Braton cost 10,000cr in the Market. What did you expect from it? It was a nice allrounder to begin with, which is pretty good for 10,000cr. 

 

I don't believe there's any one reason people don't complain about the Lato Vandal. Perhaps because it's somewhat underrated, or because akimbo pistols are vastly preferred to single pistols. Personally I like it, as it's an allrounder with good damage, fire rate and accuracy. Generally though people used more specialized secondaries, going for fire rate (viper, akimbo pistols etc.) or high damage (Lex, Kraken). Also people tend to like to complement their primary with their secondary, and using an allrounder isn't as effective as using something that more easily remedies the deficiencies of your primary.

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Isn't it obvious why nobody complained about the Lato?

 

(Hint: It is used by about as many people as the MK1-Braton)

Just cause

Just some DPS calculations

Formula: (base damage * clipsize * (1 + (critchance*critdamage))) / (time per clip + relaod time)

 

If you can give me a formula that calculates accuracy into DPS I'd be happy to use it.

 

Lato: 109

Lato Vandal: 115

Lato Prime: 123 (don't forget to complain about this one being totally OP please)

Akbolto: 138

Braton: 146

Afuris: 160

 

Notes: This formula doesn't include the fact that the Akbolto ignores most damage reductions by armor etc. and it also disregards the fact that semi-automatics can't fire at full speed without a macro.

 

If this this doesn't statisfy you, then you might try calculating it yourself.

 

I think this discussion is quite hilarious, because just as the MK1-Braton and the Skana the Lato is a beginner weapon and thus not supposed to be a top-end weapon.

 

All the buffs it gets are a bit of recoil and accuracy tweaking, but the problem is that as long as the Burston deals about as much damage per shot as the Braton it will be underpowered.

 

I think we may be getting too far off-topic with this, though.
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In terms of play style, shooting a pistol generally requires better aim and more precise shots. Hence there are comparable pistols like the kraken or lex in the secondary category.

 

For primaries, if you want a versatile automatic, there was nothing on par with the braton vandal (a straight upgrade). Especially when game design philosophy is to avoid "better" weapons over others.

 

And players use primaries and melee more frequently than secondaries.

 

I don't care about bratons; primaries are just boring at the moment. I have 3 pistols and 3 melee, and a braton. They really need to categorize and implement better thought and design into weapons.

Interesting
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Because lato style pistols are not popular in the current weapon loadout metagame. People have used Bratons since CBT because it's a viable option. If they made a Burston vandal that was worse than the Burston no one would complain about it because no one uses it.

 

Personally I've used the Lato Vandal and like it, but it's just not the best or popular.

So should guns that are unpopular be left out of balancing? Should guns only be changed if people whine about them enough?
Response^

"How are you inferring that out of my post? My post was a response to your only question in the OP, asking why no one complained about the lato and it's vandal counterpart.

 

Guns won't ever be changed because people complain. It's just the dev's find those threads more popular and actually read through some of them. They might just miss the threads about unpopular guns."
 

Question 2:Do you think the Braton buff was planned ahead of time and the thread complaining about the Braton Vandal vs Braton had no influence on their decision to buff the Braton to the Braton Vandal stats?

Response^

If anything DE skewed the numbers according to their descriptions. Before they all made sense but the Vandal was obviously more powerful than the Braton because of the large gap in base damage compared to their base fire rates. I'd say the thread complaining definitely influenced the changes, but most likely the dev's decision to make the base damage the same so people won't complain about anything being Pay2win or just being lucky during the release of the vandal.

Response
Sorry for being unclear about what I said. What I meant was that complaining won't be the reason for changing anything. But complaint threads can be used by the devs as feedback for they should be changing soon. It's like those threads complaining about bosses being boring. They're acknowledged but not used to justify changes in their bug fix or update schedule.
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 Lato Vandal is a special gift for the work people put in closed beta(like myself). Being in open beta, I'm sure you'll get things unattainable to others down the road. Let's keep the weapons appeal. There are also many great alternatives. The Braton Vandal flew over my head, but I'm still perfectly content. Chill and have a beer. :D

What appeals to you about the Lato Vandal?

Response if I can call it that >.>

"Woo I got put on the wall!!! I feel so special :3"
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Just Meow

Meow.

I think that the Lato Vandal is an option. It's a cool keepsake for CBT players, and it gives you a harder hitting variant of the weapon you started with. Nostalgic value. On a personal note, I quite liked the entire concept of having a a throwback to where I started off. The Vandal series, at least for me, are slower, harder-hitting variants for stock gear, marksman versions if you will. Since I am not a huge fan of the semi pistols anyway, a slower firing one is quite up to my liking - I don't like click orgies.

 

As for the issue: It's a perception thing. If the BraV would've been called Luxon, had a different model, no comparision to the Braton would have happened, Gorgon/Hek/etc. lovers would have stayed their course and touted their preferred guns as the best™ and no one would have cried. Maybe some people would have lamented that the Luxon isn't the strongest rifle in the park, but whatever, that'd be general misery not accredited to buff/nerf/balance woes. But it's not, it's the BraV, for the same reasons as the LaV - enjoy a throwback to your roots, now in special colours with a cool decal.

 

If that is isn't good enough, maybe people are too serious for a game. :)

 

My 2.14757 Albanian Lek*

 

* conversion from US$ as of mid-market rates: 2013-05-06 09:53 UTC

Interesting Meow

It does not work like this, at all.

 

DE is keeping track of use metrics and knows which weapon is used and which one is not. When the Boltor was hands-down OP and everywhere, they could extrapolate this from those metrics, just as the Hek and the Gorgon in their respective times. Same goes for the Braton buff.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2013 by FateZero

[Kohira]

LEAVE MY LATO VANDAL ALONE! HE IS MY FAVORITE WEAPON!

[AndryB94]

I didn't understand a word you said.

[FateZero]

LEAVE MY LATO VANDAL ALONE! HE IS MY FAVORITE WEAPON!

Noted as Kohira's opinion, seems very similar to some of the responses when people wanted to change the Braton Vandal no?

Edited May 4, 2013 by FateZero

[tsubasakuroi]

I think everyone just cares about primary weapons more?

 

Well, it doesn't help that there's just very popular and likeable pistols to begin with that anyone can get with some effort. Twin Vipers and Akboltos to stand out in my mind. Let's not forget the Lex being an absolute monster for damage when properly modded.

[FateZero]

I didn't understand a word you said.

I want your opinion on the Lato Vandal compared to the Lato. Similar to the Braton Vandal and Braton issue.

 

 

I think everyone just cares about primary weapons more?

 

Well, it doesn't help that there's just very popular and likeable pistols to begin with that anyone can get with some effort. Twin Vipers and Akboltos to stand out in my mind. Let's not forget the Lex being an absolute monster for damage when properly modded.

Noted. So if they added more "popular and likeable" primary weapons, do you think the issue with the Braton Vandal would have still came up?

Edited May 4, 2013 by FateZero

[Symbiont71]

Lato vandal is, in my opinion, the best secondary after Lex. For me, it's even better.

[Notso]

I'm not exactly sure what the point of the OP was, but I think he's calling for the Landal to be nerfed? I think?

[CheeseHasLeafs]

The Lato Vandal is my favourite pistol in the game. Decent fire rate and damage, plus it looks and sounds completely badass. 
Yeah, why hasn't anyone complained about that?

[Kohira]

Noted as Kohira's opinion, seems very similar to some of the responses when people wanted to change the Braton Vandal no?

I did it on purpose. Now seriously, Lato is the starting weapon, not necessarily the weakest (I think), but it shouldn't be at the level Lato Vandal is. It doesn't breaks anyone's game if they don't have it. It's not the best weapon out there, it's in the middle. You already have 10 other side arms that could replace the normal Lato, I don't see why the Vandal has to be at the same level with it.

 

If people are that bothered with the Vandal being better, then they should start complaining about the Akboltos too. Why should any weapon be better than the Lato, right? Let's bring them all to it's level.

 

In my opinion, it was the same with the Braton Vandal, it didn't make anyone feel underpowered. There were still Hek, Gorgon(not anymore) and Boltor out there. The normal Braton was meant as a replacement for the Mk1, a replacement that would last you until you got one of the 'best' weapons, which at the moment are no longer that good compared to the Braton.

 

As much as I am for weapon balance, this didn't solve anything. Sure, it made the Braton more useful, it raised it to a different level, now you are no longer forced to use just the '3 kings'(most popular) to do the best damage. The problem is that there are so many underpowered weapons, that are rarely used, yet they did nothing about them.

 

Meh, this is my opinion, my beliefs. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me. The Braton Vandal was never good enough to convince me to ditch my Boltor anyway, it's a bit sad that now I don't have any incentive to play with the Vandal other than for it's awesome look.

 

PS: I've been using the Lato Vandal since the first day I got, it's definitely my favorite weapon even if some say it's not the best. I don't see why should it be nerfed, that's just me though.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Kohira

[AndryB94]

I want your opinion on the Lato Vandal compared to the Lato. Similar to the Braton Vandal and Braton issue.

 

Right. Then, sorry, I have none - I don't own either of the Vandal weapons.

[tsubasakuroi]

I'm not exactly sure what the point of the OP was, but I think he's calling for the Landal to be nerfed? I think?

 

This topic is to get opinions and perhaps reasons why you guys whined about the Braton Vandal and Braton, but nothing about the Lato series weapons

 

Was thinking this was the point. Anyway...

 

 

Noted. So if they added more "popular and likeable" primary weapons, do you think the issue with the Braton Vandal would have still came up?

 

Probably not, but that's maybe me being too optimistic.

[FateZero]

I'm not exactly sure what the point of the OP was, but I think he's calling for the Landal to be nerfed? I think?

Nope, I already said, if you read, I am not putting my perspective into this topic yet about the weapons. I am purely asking the community's feedback on the Lato Vandal compared to the Lato.

^Above for first sentence

Was thinking this was the point. Anyway...

 

 

 

Probably not, but that's maybe me being too optimistic.

^I'm trying to figure out how that issue came up without anyone mentioning the Lato Vandal vs Lato. The arguments made could have been also made for the Lato Vandal vs Lato, but they were not. Why?

Edited May 4, 2013 by FateZero

[Mir.]

Much more people have the Lato Vandal, It was distributed widely and even potato'd. Braton Vandal however, was only available for a shorter period of time.

 

In short, there are less jealous people for Lato Vandals. Not significant enough to cause an uproar like Bratons and Braton Vandals.

[FateZero]

Much more people have the Lato Vandal, It was distributed widely and even potato'd. Braton Vandal however, was only available for a shorter period of time.

 

In short, there are less jealous people for Lato Vandals. Not significant enough to cause an uproar like Bratons and Braton Vandals.

So even both of them are Vandal and are better than the original, people only whined about the Bratons because it was more limited?

Shouldn't the Lato Vandal coming with its own slot and catalyst be more of an issue than the Braton Vandal that didn't come with either a slot or a catalyst? Interesting.

Edited May 4, 2013 by FateZero

[Mir.]

So even when they both are Vandal and are better than the original, people only whined about the Bratons because it was more limited?

Shouldn't the Lato Vandal coming with its own slot and catalyst be more of an issue than the Braton Vandal that didn't come with either a slot or a catalyst? Interesting.

Yes. Because of the fact that a lot more people have Lato Vandals, so it wasn't much a "special" weapon. Although in all reality I find that the Lato Vandal has much more stats buffs than the Lato as compared to Braton Vandals to Bratons before the Braton buff.

 

In short, yes you are right; the explanation being; people just wanted an exclusive special weapon. In order to achieve that, they will utilize everything in their arsenal, posting multiple threads; bring Braton Vandal back, buff Bratons, etc etc. I'm sure we have seen enough of them.

[FateZero]

I did it on purpose. Now seriously, Lato is the starting weapon, not necessarily the weakest (I think), but it shouldn't be at the level Lato Vandal is. It doesn't breaks anyone's game if they don't have it. It's not the best weapon out there, it's in the middle. You already have 10 other side arms that could replace the normal Lato, I don't see why the Vandal has to be at the same level with it.

 

If people are that bothered with the Vandal being better, then they should start complaining about the Akboltos too. Why should any weapon be better than the Lato, right? Let's bring them all to it's level.

 

In my opinion, it was the same with the Braton Vandal, it didn't make anyone feel underpowered. There were still Hek, Gorgon(not anymore) and Boltor out there. The normal Braton was meant as a replacement for the Mk1, a replacement that would last you until you got one of the 'best' weapons, which at the moment are no longer that good compared to the Braton.

 

As much as I am for weapon balance, this didn't solve anything. Sure, it made the Braton more useful, it raised it to a different level, now you are no longer forced to use just the '3 kings'(most popular) to do the best damage. The problem is that there are so many underpowered weapons, that are rarely used, yet they did nothing about them.

 

Meh, this is my opinion, my beliefs. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me. The Braton Vandal was never good enough to convince me to ditch my Boltor anyway, it's a bit sad that now I don't have any incentive to play with the Vandal other than for it's awesome look.

 

PS: I've been using the Lato Vandal since the first day I got, it's definitely my favorite weapon even if some say it's not the best. I don't see why should it be nerfed, that's just me though.

Thank you for the response, will be noted when and if I do my planned next topic.

 

Yes. Because of the fact that a lot more people have Lato Vandals, so it wasn't much a "special" weapon. Although in all reality I find that the Lato Vandal has much more stats buffs than the Lato as compared to Braton Vandals to Bratons before the Braton buff.

 

In short, yes you are right; the explanation being; people just wanted an exclusive special weapon. In order to achieve that, they will utilize everything in their arsenal, posting multiple threads; bring Braton Vandal back, buff Bratons, etc etc. I'm sure we have seen enough of them.

You get it and Thank you for your response, will be noted. (Out of topic, should DE keep falling to pressure in order to please the majority?) (Not bashing DE for any of you mods reading this)

 

The Lato Vandal is my favourite pistol in the game. Decent fire rate and damage, plus it looks and sounds completely badass. 

Yeah, why hasn't anyone complained about that?

 

Will not be fully noted, as it doesn't fully relate to the question. However the opinion on the Lato Vandal will be.

Edited May 4, 2013 by FateZero

[Notso]

Nope, I already said, if you read, I am not putting my perspective into this topic yet about the weapons. I am purely asking the community's feedback on the Lato Vandal compared to the Lato.

^Above for first sentence

^I'm trying to figure out how that issue came up without anyone mentioning the Lato Vandal vs Lato. The arguments made could have been also made for the Lato Vandal vs Lato, but they were not. Why?

 

 

I did read. You just didn't make any sense.

[FateZero]

I did read. You just didn't make any sense.

And from the feedback I got when I posted this topic, I added this in.

TLDR/Clarity: I want the opinion of people about the Lato Vandal compared to the Lato. I am not calling for a Lato Vandal Nerf and/or a Lato Buff.

So is that not clear enough?

 

[Artaban]

In terms of play style, shooting a pistol generally requires better aim and more precise shots. Hence there are comparable pistols like the kraken or lex in the secondary category.

 

For primaries, if you want a versatile automatic, there was nothing on par with the braton vandal (a straight upgrade). Especially when game design philosophy is to avoid "better" weapons over others.

 

And players use primaries and melee more frequently than secondaries.

 

I don't care about bratons; primaries are just boring at the moment. I have 3 pistols and 3 melee, and a braton. They really need to categorize and implement better thought and design into weapons.

[Tyrian3k]

Isn't it obvious why nobody complained about the Lato?

 

(Hint: It is used by about as many people as the MK1-Braton)

[Buddlschlumpf]

Imo the lato vandal is overpowered. It's by far the strongest pistol ingame, outclassing the LEX at 1-shotting and even the akbolto due to it be a lot more flexible. With high level mods, the lato vandal has almost comparable dps to a highly modded braton (due to pistol mods being stronger). The lato vandal right now has the stats and mods the latron should have.

[Tyrian3k]

Imo the lato vandal is overpowered. It's by far the strongest pistol ingame, outclassing the LEX at 1-shotting and even the akbolto due to it be a lot more flexible. With high level mods, the lato vandal has almost comparable dps to a highly modded braton (due to pistol mods being stronger). The lato vandal right now has the stats and mods the latron should have.

 

Lato Vandal has very low DPS actually. Even less than a normal Lato.

 

Lato Vandal is better than Akbolto? Seriously? The Akboltos are OP as hell and tear through everything with no problems.

 

Sry, but I can't take you seriously there...

[FateZero]

Lato Vandal has very low DPS actually. Even less than a normal Lato.

 

Lato Vandal is better than Akbolto? Seriously? The Akboltos are OP as hell and tear through everything with no problems.

 

Sry, but I can't take you seriously there...

Since this isn't my topic about balancing, I won't disagree or agree with you yet, but could you present some data or reasoning behind why the Lato Vandal has very low DPS and lower than the normal Lato? So I could actually have something to note down, instead of just taking your word for it?

 

(out of topic I have always believed the Lato Vandal to having higher DPS than the Lato, that's why I'm asking this of you and I think most people have the same perspective as me on that. Lato Vandal DPS>Lato DPS)

 

[Blatantfool]

 Hey Fate, I'd really like to ask that you chill with the downvote baiting and such. There is no reason for that. Throwing around words like whiners and butthurt just hurts the impact of an otherwise reasonable topic. You really don't have to be so passive aggressive to get the point you are trying to make across.