[Ooc/q&a/recruiting]The Setup, Redux & The Lounge

[(PSN)batman200087]

I actually like the idea of the Operator and Belrev.

 

They argue all the time.

 

I love it.

[WolfmanX9]

I can see the point of view from both sides, the good and the bad ones, but let's not forget what our "space mom" said during the quest as her word of wisdom: "Dream... not of what you are, but of what you want to be". I stay "neutral" when it comes to opinions about the big U18 reveal and the potential effect for RP in the future, for now

[Exoteran]

So what essentially happened is that DE said The Tenno & Warframes are empty puppets that are controlled by an operator somewhere else?

.....I'm gonna have to digest that for a little bit.

[SpaceHelicopters]

So what essentially happened is that DE said The Tenno & Warframes are empty puppets that are controlled by an operator somewhere else?

.....I'm gonna have to digest that for a little bit.

 

Not completely true, friend.

They didn't say it, it was revealed in update 18. And while the Tenno and warframe are two separate entities, people speculate that the warframe is empty, though there is no definitive proof for either side of the argument.

[IceDragonofAmber]

Not trying to start something, but that's some pretty toxic thinking, friend.

Now know what I'm about to say is merely my attempt at a counter argument.

So first thing I'm going to shake my stick at is the whole "Tenno-Warrior Mentality." I think one of the main problems behind all this was the gutsy move on DE's end of not only introducing the Tenno as a separate entity, but as children, which brings on an assumed belief of helplessness that subtracts from the badass belief of Tenno. But remember: though a dream, the Tenno for the longest time truly believed that they were the Warframes, meaning that all the ninja parkour, masterful weapon wielding, and general badassery we've performed in-game over the years was done and ingrained into their minds. Were it not for centuries of muscle atrophy, don't you think the Tenno, even if they are kids, could perform some if not all of the things we've made our frames do?

Adding onto this, just because they look like children, doesn't mean they have a childish mentality. Remember, they thought they were the warframes; they were treated as warriors and therefore most likely adopted the warrior mentality. Yeah, sometimes they cut in on a mission with something goofy to say, but in all honesty it's based on what voice you choose your operator to have. Besides, as they say, "Maturity breeds immaturity." I can personally say that the more I've grown, the more immature I've gotten. It's the brains way of defying maturity, and let's face it: the Tenno may look 13, but they're actually hundreds of years old. I mean, if you've been treated like a tool for so long, you're either going to stay a tool, or take advantage of your new-found freedom.

And finally, the stereotype that children are helpless just isn't always true. In the news, we see stories of 10 year-olds stopping jewelry store roberies, taking the wheel to prevent their grandfather who's currently having a heart attack in order to avoid oncoming traffic, and even performing heart surgery (I'm not kidding, look it up, that story is amazing). The fact that you're a Tenno means so much more; you're not just a kid, you're the most badass kid in the solar system: you can freaking control void energy, which in most cases either kills you or drives you mad, and not only that, you've been disciplined in one of 5 (I'm pretty sure, to lazy to look up, correct me if I'm wrong) schools that have trained you to be a warrior wielding power ranging from pure, unadulterated destruction to mending and mind control. While, yes, you do seem pretty damn helpless when you fall out of the somatic link and have to be carried princess style to safety, even a grown adult would be completely helpless after not moving for centuries, meaning that this detail can't be used in the argument.

Now, regarding the Gradivus Dilemma, while yes, warframes are mechanical/biological puppets and we lost a lot, being on the side of the Tenno has made us forget just how difficult getting and building a warframe is, which would still explain how debilitating a loss of so many warframes would be.

Think about it; neither the Grineer or Corpus have access to warframes and have to result to sacrificing copious amounts of troops, credits, and resources to overpower or locate active or dormant frames. Just because we have access to them, does not by any means mean that warframes are easy to obtain. If your warframe expires on the field, do you just make another? No, you reclaim it, sacrifice a limited charge to revive it, or hope to hell someone else gets them active again. In order to build the frames, in most cases you need to kill someone very important and defended who has access to often stolen or recovered information required to view the blueprint, then you need to manipulate some of hands down the most dangerous materials in the system in order to create them. Newer frames require argon crystals, a material that decays quick and gives off deadly amounts of radiation. All frames require infestation in some form, and we know just how destructive a single spore can be. Finally, almost every frame needs one or several orokin cells, which while you may have hundreds in your inventory, are rare and highly sought after bits of orokin technology that can give off an infinite amount of power.

With all this in mind, is it really far-fetched to believe losing hundreds of thousands of these metal puppets can be a severe setback? Not only that, but the people hellbent on annihilating you are taking your lovingly constructed puppets and deconstructing them to make more efficient and effective ways of deconstructing them on the battlefield.

Please don't be upset with me; I'm not picking a fight, I'm merely arguing for the sake of debate. Personally, I love U18, but for reasons that some people hate it. A lot of people felt that giving the Tenno a face took "them" out of the game, and I completely agree. That's why I love it. I'm not that adorable little purple-haired girl who bears the name SpaceHelicopters and pops in every once in a while to give her two-cents on my current situation. I am the beautiful machine of death and destruction currently ankle deep in an eviscerated Grineer clad in green and red armor with silver bells attached to my fists that jingle with every debilitating hit that's about to go down because the enemies around me are upset I killed their friend.

They're also level 120.

Merry Christmas!

It's not the fact that they're children that p!sses on everything the Tenno stood for, and its not the fact that they're cripples in a glorified Oculus Rift. It's their face and voice. Before we were the stoic calm warriors of ages past that only ever spoke when it was necessary. Our identities were masked and unknown, and that's what made us all the more badass.

Now we're these kids that don't reflect this in any way. Masked and mysterious? They can't help but keep the damn thing off. Subtle and silent? They say "That was close" when you brake a damn crate! They make it seem like it's all just a massive f*cking game, and for them it probably is. I don't care if they're a thousand year old ancient Orokin that genocides on a daily basis, it doesn't matter when they don't even reflect that in a single god damn way.

I no longer feel any kind of sympathy to these kids that just sit back and look pretty while committing murder to upwards of thousands. I feel more sympathy for the clones and crewman that actually fight and die[\b] compared to these little sh!ts.

The Gradivous Dilemma wasn't between losing a bunch of frames or a bunch of civilians, it was about a choice between losing hundreds of our own (read: TENNO. DEAD.) or letting the Grineer capture and murder upwards of millions of civilians. We thought we would actually be losing hundreds of our own brothers and sisters to cruel experiments if the Corpus were not stopped. Now it turns out all we would have lost were mindless, emotionless flesh puppets that, no matter how difficult, can be replaced. Whoops! Guess we should send an apology letter to all those civvies currently languishing in concentration camps huh?

In fact it would have been easier to just rig the excavation site to explode so the Corpus wouldn't get the experimentation and while all our effort went into defeating the Grineer to save the civilians. Win win am I right?

And yes, I am the opposite of you. I do believe that little sh!t that sits on his stupid little chair took me out of the game. My Valkyr, my Loki, my pretty pink Nekros that I spent all my time and plat to function and look the way they do are all nothing now, replaced by that stupid little girl that I foolishly tried to make look like Sab.

I always hated character customisation...

And Space, no matter how the tone of my post may sound know that I'm not mad at you or what you're doing to the thread. I've even already planned on what's going to happen to my characters should Sab ever meet her operator. I'm just incredibly salty at DE and what they've done, especially as they haven't even given us the simple option of putting that god forsaken mask back on.

Until DE is able to provide us with some sort of compensation for this butchering of the lore I don't think I'll be playing Warfarm.

In the mean time I'll be conquering Europe with westernised Aztec forces.

[Rehtael7]

It's not the fact that they're children that p!sses on everything the Tenno stood for, and its not the fact that they're cripples in a glorified Oculus Rift. It's their face and voice. Before we were the stoic calm warriors of ages past that only ever spoke when it was necessary. Our identities were masked and unknown, and that's what made us all the more badass.

Now we're these kids that don't reflect this in any way. Masked and mysterious? They can't help but keep the damn thing off. Subtle and silent? They say "That was close" when you brake a damn crate! They make it seem like it's all just a massive f*cking game, and for them it probably is. I don't care if they're a thousand year old ancient Orokin that genocides on a daily basis, it doesn't matter when they don't even reflect that in a single god damn way.

I no longer feel any kind of sympathy to these kids that just sit back and look pretty while committing murder to upwards of thousands. I feel more sympathy for the clones and crewman that actually fight and die[\b] compared to these little sh!ts.

The Gradivous Dilemma wasn't between losing a bunch of frames or a bunch of civilians, it was about a choice between losing hundreds of our own (read: TENNO. DEAD.) or letting the Grineer capture and murder upwards of millions of civilians. We thought we would actually be losing hundreds of our own brothers and sisters to cruel experiments if the Corpus were not stopped. Now it turns out all we would have lost were mindless, emotionless flesh puppets that, no matter how difficult, can be replaced. Whoops! Guess we should send an apology letter to all those civvies currently languishing in concentration camps huh?

In fact it would have been easier to just rig the excavation site to explode so the Corpus wouldn't get the experimentation and while all our effort went into defeating the Grineer to save the civilians. Win win am I right?

And yes, I am the opposite of you. I do believe that little sh!t that sits on his stupid little chair took me out of the game. My Valkyr, my Loki, my pretty pink Nekros that I spent all my time and plat to function and look the way they do are all nothing now, replaced by that stupid little girl that I foolishly tried to make look like Sab.

I always hated character customisation...

And Space, no matter how the tone of my post may sound know that I'm not mad at you or what you're doing to the thread. I've even already planned on what's going to happen to my characters should Sab ever meet her operator. I'm just incredibly salty at DE and what they've done, especially as they haven't even given us the simple option of putting that god forsaken mask back on.

Until DE is able to provide us with some sort of compensation for this butchering of the lore I don't think I'll be playing Warfarm.

In the mean time I'll be conquering Europe with westernised Aztec forces.

"Dream not of what you are, but what you want to be." Cannonically, the Tenno DIDN'T KNOW that they weren't actually the warframes they were manipulating. To be honest, the Tenno as children is the PERFECT analogy to the player, AKA you. They knew as much as we did. As far as we knew prior, the Warframes WERE our actual bodies, so making every effort to preserve those bodies would make sense. If you were playing a game like say, Starwars Battlefront, or Planetside 2, or hell, even say Fallout 4 and you legitimately believed that your in-game avatar was the entirety of you, what would you do? Risk saving some people you don't know, or save your own skin? The Warframes are avatars of their Tenno, and only now do we/ the Tenno themselves realize it.

 

You say you don't feel sympathy for them, but they are a representation of YOU. Yes, YOU, the player. You sit behind your desk slaughtering thousands of crewmen and clones from the safety and comfort of wherever it is you game. Hell, even in MORE comfort than the Tenno, since during transference they still feel pain. Have you got a setup like that? I should think not.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Rehtael7

[Ghost333]

In the mean time I'll be conquering Europe with westernised Aztec forces.

 

*Send the Nazis after you, armed with Giant Death Robots, XCOM squads and only two tank divisions.

And 9000 nukes.*

Hows about 'no?'

[IceDragonofAmber]

Yes we may have believed back then that we were the Warframes but as we know now that isn't the case. No matter what we may have done and thought in the past it completely undermines everything we've gone through and accomplished now that we know we were never actually in any threat of dying.

No matter how much the game may say it you are not the Tenno, atleast not anymore. That masked figure you could identify and project yourself onto (and probably have been for months upwards to years now) has been replaced with a kid that came utterly out of nowehere and won't shut up.

*Send the Nazis after you, armed with Giant Death Robots, XCOM squads and only two tank divisions.

And 9000 nukes.*

Hows about 'no?'

*Forms a million man coalition against you due to aggressive expansion penalties*

How about 'yes?'

[Rehtael7]

Yes we may have believed back then that we were the Warframes but as we know now that isn't the case. No matter what we may have done and thought in the past it completely undermines everything we've gone through and accomplished now that we know we were never actually in any threat of dying.

It does? How?

Suddenly our efforts are meaningless just because we weren't in immediate danger? If you need your life to be in immediate danger to make your existence meaningful, may I advise hooking up a pistol to an egg timer and pointing it at your head while you play games? that way if you don't remember to keep resetting the egg timer, you could die! That adds meaning to your life, right? Because without danger, it's meaningless? I guess that makes army generals useless too, since they're making massive decisions and influencing wars and such, but they aren't in any threat of dying.

Hm... Spoiler seems to be broken. Not sure why. Apologies in advance.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Rehtael7

[Ghost333]

*Forms a million man coalition against you due to aggressive expansion penalties*

How about 'yes?'

*Launches the nukes at the rest of that coalition and then takes ALL the remaining cities with the XCOM squads the next turn*

Again, howsabauht nahow?

[IceDragonofAmber]

Yes and no. What they achieved at Gradivous is meaningless because that whole event was based on the fact that the Tenno still thought that they were the Warframes and so fought to save their kin when it turned out they were never truly in danger. This renders everything they fought for in Gradivous irrelevant because they never truly accomplished something in the first place. Everything else though can't be said to be as meaningless.

However the reputation of the Tenno is undermined. What we at first believed to be stoic ancient warriors that stood the line against anything that came against them whilst suffering all the pain and threat of death are now mere flesh puppets being controlled from a safe location far away. No matter which way you look at it that fact undermines the idea of what the Tenno once were.

Also, is the forum broken for anyone else?

Damnit Ghost your nukes broke the forums!

[Ghost333]

Also, is the forum broken for anyone else?

Damnit Ghost your nukes broke the forums!

It wasn't me, this time.

As you can see, Rehtael's chat box is borken. And this happened BEFORE the nukes.

 

Also, am I the only one who doesn't give a damn about how the lore is broken in half, and that I am keeping Umbra as a guy who used to be in a suit and now IS the suit?

[Rehtael7]

Yes and no. What they achieved at Gradivous is meaningless because that whole event was based on the fact that the Tenno still thought that they were the Warframes and so fought to save their kin when it turned out they were never truly in danger. This renders everything they fought for in Gradivous irrelevant because they never truly accomplished something in the first place. Everything else though can't be said to be as meaningless.

However the reputation of the Tenno is undermined. What we at first believed to be stoic ancient warriors that stood the line against anything that came against them whilst suffering all the pain and threat of death are now mere flesh puppets being controlled from a safe location far away. No matter which way you look at it that fact undermines the idea of what the Tenno once were.

Also, is the forum broken for anyone else?

Damnit Ghost your nukes broke the forums!

And that can be a factor in the lore. Lotus allowed those innocents to be sacrificed in the name of maintaining the facade that Tenno are INSIDE their frames. She did it for a reason. Was it a GOOD reason? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Debatable. 

 

And no, it doesn't. It doesn't undermine jack S#&$. Even if they are child-like in form, they're still dangerous superhumans with the minds of warriors, hence the Focus schools. You keep saying it undermines things, but it really doesn't. They're STILL badasses. The point of Transference is that the consciousness of Tenno were placed inside other bodies. Sorry, but it seems less like this lore is a bad thing and more that you don't fully understand it. Sure they're kids, but they're kids with the brains of centuries-old combat MASTERS. Tell me how a child can be any more badass.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Rehtael7

[IceDragonofAmber]

And that can be a factor in the lore. Lotus allowed those innocents to be sacrificed in the name of maintaining the facade that Tenno are INSIDE their frames. She did it for a reason. Was it a GOOD reason? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Debatable.

And no, it doesn't. It doesn't undermine jack S#&$. Even if they are child-like in form, they're still dangerous superhumans with the minds of warriors, hence the Focus schools. You keep saying it undermines things, but it really doesn't. They're STILL badasses. The point of Transference is that the consciousness of Tenno were placed inside other bodies. Sorry, but it seems less like this lore is a bad thing and more that you don't fully understand it. Sure they're kids, but they're kids with the brains of centuries-old combat MASTERS. Tell me how a child can be any more badass.

Doesn't change the fact that nothing was in danger, much less accomplished.

I understand it perfectly, and here are two ways they could be more badass.

1. Not saying stupid stuff that makes them seem 14 in both mind and body.

2. If they were actually well and truely in danger with their lives like we were led to believe for so long.

And yay new page.

Edited December 18, 2015 by IceDragonofAmber

[Rehtael7]

Doesn't change the fact that nothing was in danger, much less accomplished.

I understand it perfectly, and here are two ways they could be more badass.

1. Not saying stupid stuff that makes them seem 14 in both mind and body.

2. If they were actually well and truely in danger with their lives like we were led to believe for so long.

And yay new page.

It's not a problem with the story, it's with your perception of it. For all this "14-year-old" knew, their life legitimately WAS in danger. Despite this being a theoretical possibility, they dove head first into danger. It was bravery. In the face of what seemed life-threatening, they responded courageously. I'd like to see you do that.

If you have a problem with how "badass" that is, that's your business, but the most of rest of us are perfectly fine with this explanation.

This gives a canonical explanation for why we can die and not truly die. Theoretically, if your operator's life were directly connected to the warframe, or were even inside the warframe, the canonical response to death would be to delete your account. Can you imagine that? This lore gives us a contextual reason as to why we can change frames, be killed and come back, and so on.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Rehtael7

[Ghost333]

 

Edit: Image was better

Edited December 18, 2015 by Ghost333

[IceDragonofAmber]

It's not a problem with the story, it's with your perception of it. For all this "14-year-old" knew, their life legitimately WAS in danger. Despite this being a theoretical possibility, they dove head first into danger. It was bravery. In the face of what seemed life-threatening, they responded courageously. I'd like to see you do that.

If you have a problem with how "badass" that is, that's your business, but the most of rest of us are perfectly fine with this explanation.

This gives a canonical explanation for why we can die and not truly die. Theoretically, if your operator's life were directly connected to the warframe, or were even inside the warframe, the canonical response to death would be to delete your account. Can you imagine that? This lore gives us a contextual reason as to why we can change frames, be killed and come back, and so on.

My perception is fine thank you, and sure, that was brave. It doesn't change the fact that Gradivous was all just a farsh that truely accomplished nothing and that the mysterious nature of the Tenno was ruined by these thousand year old demi-gods that don't act like it.

And the "I'd like to see you do that" argument is so weak. You want me to do the same thing as a fictional character set in a universe thousands of years into the future? Yeah, I'd like to see you do that.

And I have no problem with how badass it is. It is pretty badass. It just used to be more badass.

And that excuse is one of the weakest you can use. Delete our accounts? By your logic we'd only be able to ever fight the same boss once and we'd still have to build a new frame everytime we died and ran outta revives.

And you still want a canonical response for what would happen if the operator died in a mission? Simple. It didn't happen. It would be like reloading the save on a game when you died. That death would never have happened and you just continue the game.

[Rehtael7]

My perception is fine thank you, and sure, that was brave. It doesn't change the fact that Gradivous was all just a farsh that truely accomplished nothing and that the mysterious nature of the Tenno was ruined by these thousand year old demi-gods that don't act like it.

And the "I'd like to see you do that" argument is so weak. You want me to do the same thing as a fictional character set in a universe thousands of years into the future? Yeah, I'd like to see you do that.

And I have no problem with how badass it is. It is pretty badass. It just used to be more badass.

And that excuse is one of the weakest you can use. Delete our accounts? By your logic we'd only be able to ever fight the same boss once and we'd still have to build a new frame everytime we died and ran outta revives.

And you still want a canonical response for what would happen if the operator died in a mission? Simple. It didn't happen. It would be like reloading the save on a game when you died. That death would never have happened and you just continue the game.

 

And be pissed with the Lotus. She lied to you, that's the point you don't seem to be getting. It's not a hole in the lore, it's proof that the Lotus is a LIAR. You're calling out a 14-year old child for not being badass when throwing themselves into the fire, that's my point.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Rehtael7

[IceDragonofAmber]

And be pissed with the Lotus. She lied to you, that's the point you don't seem to be getting. It's not a hole in the lore, it's proof that the Lotus is a LIAR. You're calling out a 14-year old child for not being badass when throwing themselves into the fire, that's my point.

I am getting that, I know that the Lotus is a liar. And it's because she's a liar that led to the Tenno accomplishing things that never even mattered.

And I never said that there was a hole in the lore. I hate the lore, I don't agree with it, but I never said there was a hole in the lore.

[Rehtael7]

I am getting that, I know that the Lotus is a liar. And it's because she's a liar that led to the Tenno accomplishing things that never even mattered.

And I never said that there was a hole in the lore. I hate the lore, I don't agree with it, but I never said there was a hole in the lore.

Then why are you here? 

[Ghost333]

*nomming on marshmallows heated over all the flames going on*

[IceDragonofAmber]

Then why are you here?

I don't know why are you here? You started the argument.

*nomming on marshmallows heated over all the flames going on*

*Sprinkles marshmallows with salt*

[Ghost333]

-The marshmallows are all gone, and thus the salt is wasted-

[IceDragonofAmber]

*Pours salt down digestive tract to chase after marshmallows*

[Ghost333]

-doesn't have one due to non-logic bullS#&$-