The New Frost Prime/helmet Is Ugly...

[Luxangel7]

Art is subjective.

 

A doctor failing to properly perform an operation is not. 

 

Good job, you found the one example that was not completely accurate and used it to make it sound like my entire point, which was "it's ok to critique artists" was completely wrong.

 

If you think that because art is subjective that means you can't critique it, then good for you. But that's not how the real world works. Art can be horrible, no matter what prism of "subjective" evaluation you place upon it.

 

And I'd appreciate that if you must contribute that you do so in an honest manner, not trying to mince words or divert attention from the real topic like a salesman or something.

[Alazais]

How about we wait to see what the reward is before speculating on it? xD

I'd say it's probably a Frost helmet or Prime w/e but I won't judge till i know. I saw so many people speculating on what the new Handspring mod would do, ranging from melee range to jump height and most people were wrong.

[Demeus]

I'm gonna get a bunch of down votes on this, but I don't care lol

I honestly respect the fact LuxAngel7 has balls to say this. I was gonna walk away quietly, but seeing the reactions to his thoughts made me want to say this:

Guys, Art is subjective..

I know it seems I'm just being annoying to repeat things and etc, but a lot of people REALLY need to understand that.

Lux here is distasteful of the helm. No matter how hard he bashes anyone/thing or not, that's kinda his opinion, he has the right to say it, and more importantly, he has the right to THINK.

Sure, you can think he's a troll, sure, you can just write paragraphs upon paragraphs to disagree with me or him, but.. what do you gain?..

I love the Frost helm. End of that. He doesn't, followed by reasons.

We're not a cult guys lol

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to Lux himself, I too am kinda worried about where the design itself is going.. I honestly can't say if the game is far enough to judge anything yet, but who knows. -shrugs-

 

I think the new helm looks too unnecessarily made. But, Imo, it's alright.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Demeus

[Argoms]

Good job, you found the one example that was not completely accurate and used it to make it sound like my entire point, which was "it's ok to critique artists" was completely wrong.

 

If you think that because art is subjective that means you can't critique it, then good for you. But that's not how the real world works. Art can be horrible, no matter what prism of "subjective" evaluation you place upon it.

 

And I'd appreciate that if you must contribute that you do so in an honest manner, not trying to mince words or divert attention from the real topic like a salesman or something.

Name your good example then:

 

 

 

Car breaks down after 1000 km of use? Don't be harsh in your critique of the car manufacturer, you are using their work after all! Don't be rude!

 

Found a cockroach in your dinner at a fancy restaraunt? That chef is an artist! Don't be rude!

 

 

1. Product not fit for use.

 

3. Health and safety regulations not being followed.

[Luxangel7]

Name your good example then:

 

 

 

Car breaks down after 1000 km of use? Don't be harsh in your critique of the car manufacturer, you are using their work after all! Don't be rude!

 

Found a cockroach in your dinner at a fancy restaraunt? That chef is an artist! Don't be rude!

 

 

1. Product not fit for use.

 

3. Health and safety regulations not being followed.

The point was that your view of not criticizing anything because its subjective is stupid. its obvious you are trolling by bypassing the main point and trying to deconstruct examples i came up with on the fly.

[Babalenong]

You will learn to love them

See : touhou

[Argoms]

The point was that your view of not criticizing anything because its subjective is stupid. its obvious you are trolling by bypassing the main point and trying to deconstruct examples i came up with on the fly.

Okay then, let's get to your first post.

 

"although art is subjective, not telling an artist that you think his work is subpar is ridiculously stupid"

As you said yourself, it's subjective. Everything's fine so far, people are entitled to their opinions.

 

"Would you tell an engineer that his machine isn't the quality it should be?"

And this is where it falls apart. When an engineer designs something, he has a goal, and it is possible to objectively measure whether or not he meets that goal. Warframe's art isn't sloppy, it isn't inconsistent. It may not be what you like, but your examples imply that it doesn't meet your 'standards', which is quite different from just saying that you don't like the style.

 

"You can express yourself without all the drama and pointless moral chastising."

 

Later on, you say:

 

"its obvious you are trolling by bypassing the main point and trying to deconstruct examples i came up with on the fly. "

 

By saying that I'm trolling (obviously?), aren't you creating drama and/or chastising me?

 

I don't defend DE no matter what. I haven't spent money yet specifically because I don't like the alerts system and what it encourages in its current state. I don't think they're perfect. However, I can see that they're trying, and that's much better than most others.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Argoms

[Inez]

Edited Topic/Post due to clearer image:

 

    Of course taste is subjective. But it really disturbs me how they're art direction in many instances keeps going for 80% weird 20% cool.

 

 

Unfortunately, this is why art direction in videogames is so bland and boring.  Creative types think up something new, Joe Sixpack complains it doesn't look like what he's used too.

 

You what else was weird?  Beethoven.  The impressionists.  Rock n Roll.  Rimbaud.

 

I've never actually worked in the videogame industry, but I'm willing to bet that most of what the creative types throw out for artistic design initally gets nixed by MBA types.  "That's too weird.  We need something more bland that won't offend people."  Part of World of Warcraft's popularity stems from its bland, cartoony art direction.

 

In the future, hopefully we'll see more niche titles willing to take risks, ala Shadows of the Colossus.  Rather than everyone taking the McDonalds approach to art direction, uninspired and suited to everyone.

 

 

In case you're wondering, yes, this is a drunken rant.  What I just wrote might be completely stupid, but I've had enough Newcastle I don't care.

[Alcoran]

based on the most iconic and cool-looking frames.

 

icy what you did there

[Luxangel7]

more trolling

Dude, I'm not feeding you anymore, three times I told you you ignore what I was saying and try to nitpick examples I came up with to try and explain what I was thinking, and three times you just escalate and repeat your behavior. Go bait somebody else, I'm not interested. 

 

You're not even the person I was responding to in the post you quoted. I was answering someone who was saying I was rude, and somehow you decided it was time to start an argument on behalf of someone else and take an unrelated response and apply it to my original point. Seriously...better luck trolling next time.

Edited May 6, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Luxangel7]

Unfortunately, this is why art direction in videogames is so bland and boring.  Creative types think up something new, Joe Sixpack complains it doesn't look like what he's used too.

 

You what else was weird?  Beethoven.  The impressionists.  Rock n Roll.  Rimbaud.

 

I've never actually worked in the videogame industry, but I'm willing to bet that most of what the creative types throw out for artistic design initally gets nixed by MBA types.  "That's too weird.  We need something more bland that won't offend people."  Part of World of Warcraft's popularity stems from its bland, cartoony art direction.

 

In the future, hopefully we'll see more niche titles willing to take risks, ala Shadows of the Colossus.  Rather than everyone taking the McDonalds approach to art direction, uninspired and suited to everyone.

 

 

In case you're wondering, yes, this is a drunken rant.  What I just wrote might be completely stupid, but I've had enough Newcastle I don't care.

 

Look, I think you might have missed the spirit of what I was trying to say. There is an enormous chasm between what I was saying which was basically "weird is good, as long as its cool and not just flashy round junk" and you thinking that I want World of Warframe cartoon graphics.

 

I fu***ing HATE wow.

 

I was trying to say that artistic styles and designs are subjective in the sense that anyone can like something that another hates.

 

however, there is still a degree of objective beauty or worth to an artistic expression.

 

I'm not saying that this is the case, but you could put a decapitated horse's head on an upside down table and call it art. It's subjective because even though 99% of people would call it disgusting, there is that 1% who thinks it's genius.

 

While this case is nowhere near that drastic, I am saying that although there is a subjective worth to the prime design, that it's objective worth is very low in my opinion.

 

And not only to you, but to others I would remind as well, that MOST people who play warframe aren't going to come online and write about it. Unless you think that there are millions of users here on the forums.

 

So taking a baseline sampling of pretty dedicated fans who will generally be critical of anyone disagreeing with DE's choices and then saying that therefore I am wrong, is really misguided. This isn't directed to you personally, I'm just saying because I've noticed this trend in a lot of responses. ie: you got downvoted = you're wrong.

[Argoms]

You're not even the person I was responding to in the post you quoted. I was answering someone who was saying I was rude, and somehow you decided it was time to start an argument on behalf of someone else and take an unrelated response and apply it to my original point. Seriously...better luck trolling next time.

You know I've been directly replying to your quoted posts, right? Can't I assume that when you say "you <something>" directly below my quoted post that the message is directed at me?

 

"While this case is nowhere near that drastic, I am saying that although there is a subjective worth to prime design, that it's objective worth is very low in my opinion."

This makes literally no sense. Objectivity is the lack of an opinion, and you're saying that in your opinion, something is objectively bad. How are you measuring it?

[fishworshipper]

Look dude, no offense, but you need to toughen up and not be so delicately sensitive to anything that is slightly harsh in criticism. It's not rude to say: "Look, these designs were terribad". That's my opinion. It doesn't matter if I'm using their work to entertain myself. Apart from the fact that I have paid for their work, which isn't even my point, let's compare your logic to other things:

 

Car breaks down after 1000 km of use? Don't be harsh in your critique of the car manufacturer, you are using their work after all! Don't be rude!

 

Doctor leaves a knife in you after operating on you? He was working hard! Don't be rude!

 

Found a cockroach in your dinner at a fancy restaraunt? That chef is an artist! Don't be rude!

 

And so on and so forth.

 

Being rude is when you attack people personally with insults and bad words, none of which I did.

 

Another example of being rude would be telling you to grow the f**** up, instead of explaining all this politely like I did here.

 

So please, save your unnecessary moralistic drama.

You're being an A******.

[Luxangel7]

You're being an A******.

 

No, I'm really not. Now as for you trying to quote me answering to someone else, instead of the answer I gave to your post, in some kind of an attempt to once again turn a simple preference in game design into some sort of moral and personal attack? yeah. It's because Im not an a-hole that I'm not even going to entertain you. You can join Argoms and go try and bait someone else into a troll/flame fest. And that's not even touching the subject of responding to someone, and the entirety of your post being an insult with profanity. Bravo.

[fishworshipper]

No, I'm really not. Now as for you trying to quote me answering to someone else, instead of the answer I gave to your post, in some kind of an attempt to once again turn a simple preference in game design into some sort of moral and personal attack? yeah. It's because Im not an a-hole that I'm not even going to entertain you. You can join Argoms and go try and bait someone else into a troll/flame fest. And that's not even touching the subject of responding to someone, and the entirety of your post being an insult with profanity. Bravo.

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to point out that most of your comments have been rude in the most clear way I can.

[EversorMetus]

Art is subjective. Based on threads/comments/votes...etc. Most people think Prime Frost is not ugly. 

[Arlayn]

The first frost helmet looked like a silly crab... the second one looked worse. This new Prime one is a vast improvement. The golden stuff all over looks awesome. Plus I bet even after you change all the colors it stays gold like Excalibur Prime giving it more attitude.

[Mir.]

What the hell, you're complaining over your rewards that DE had spent much time on. It's like being a brat to your parents complaining about getting an iPhone for Christmas.

[Arlayn]

Iphones and tablets make me want to play the Nintendo moment I pick one up I feel like I entered the dark ages... So yes I will complain about it if they did buy me one due to a rough and horrifying childhood I don't like being reminded of. Complaining is ok. That is apart of art. if people want to complain let them its good to complain. It is what makes us human beings. Lux has a strong point about critique. Just let him talk. If he hates it he hates it. If he likes it he likes it. That's his opinion. Every human being was raised different. Different taste. Born with different temperments. That's life. You will go to work meet someone you don't like. Try to avoid them only for your boss to force you to work with them. That's life... When your born your spanked for no reason and it hurts. That's life deal with it. Everyone in life is going to hurt you for no reason. Everyone in life is going to complain, everyone in life is going to point something out they don't like. You cannot please the whole world. That's life.

[Ced23Ric]

Who here has seen Frost Prime ingame and not just on a 2D picture?

[Arlayn]

Who here has seen Frost Prime ingame and not just on a 2D picture?

Outside of staff I doubt anyone has seen it.

[Luxangel7]

What the hell, you're complaining over your rewards that DE had spent much time on. It's like being a brat to your parents complaining about getting an iPhone for Christmas.

 

Saying that I don't like the design of an ingame object is absolutely nothing like complaining about getting an Iphone for christmas.

 

Apart from the fact that I paid my money to contribute to the game, which isn't my point, complaining or disliking a certain design in a game is completely valid. Just because it was a "reward" for an event that doesn't magically make free speech banned. So please think about what you write before calling people "brats".

 

If tomorrow they released a texture-less, featureless box for an alt helm as a free reward for an event would you call anyone who said that it looked ugly a "brat"?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how in forums a lot of times, if people disagree with you then they just immediately personally insult you.

 

I would suggest, in all sincerity, that you consider not doing that. It only does you a disservice as well as cast you in a negative light and/or discredit your idea to others.

[Stabby_Tentacles]

So please, save your unnecessary moralistic drama.

 

 

Kind of get that, have an opinion, but make sure its your’s and not somebody… eah… Bah maybe I don’t get it… Whatevs.

 

But I agree moralistic drama is a little crap; especially as the games going pretty good, and everybody has a right to say what should be done, to make the game even better…

 

So have your say, just don’t buffer the delicate fragile wittle designers ‘stylists.’

I think they might be able to handle themselves.

[Ced23Ric]

Outside of staff I doubt anyone has seen it.

 

So, what is this "Frost Prime is ugly!" based on?

[Luxangel7]

So, what is this "Frost Prime is ugly!" based on?

 

He has a goatee. And it's gold. He has a beard almost exactly like an ancient Egyptian pharaoh.

 

He has three unwieldy, round, archs on his head, something more suited to architectural design, that to me look like future 12-yr old girl headband armor.

 

So far what I've seen of the new frost prime is 80% weird hipster "we do things differently just for the sake of it" and 20% different but in an awesome way. (The gold diamond piece in the middle)

 

Sure, we haven't seen it in game. but he has a ******* goatee beard and headbands. What. The. ******.

 

And before previous posters get all enraged again, let me say it nice and clear THAT'S MY OPINION. (sry not directed at you moderator)