Is Anyone Else Underwhelmed By Magazine Warp Mods?

[Ryanshow]

Maybe it is just me but 30% more magazine space doesn't feel like enough of a difference to warrant 9 mod capacity?

 

I want this mod to work, but it just feels like I could be doing better things with the capacity.

[stacey69]

Boltor makes good use of it and so does Latron. Try those.

[Gregio]

It's lower than other weapons to keep balance.
If you have magazine warp on a gorgon or something, it adds 30 extra bullets. Sure, the Gorgon goes through that pretty fast, but still.

And then you have stuff like the Snipetron, where any Magazine warp over 15% is useless. 15% of 4 gets rounded up to 5 shots, anything higher doesn't increase the magazine capacity.

[Lifeshield]

You'll learn to appreciate it. :)

Edited May 6, 2013 by Lifeshield

[Argoms]

No, you're not the only one. Same with reload speed. 

 

Boltor makes good use of it and so does Latron. Try those.

That doesn't mean it's good. For 9 points, I could have an extra 60% elemental damage buff (80% for ice), or a 90% base damage bonus. It's not worth it compared to other mods.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Argoms

[dEEkAy2k9]

only ammo mod that's worth it is the max ammo on pistols

 

having 200 or 400 ammo max is a big difference on dual vipers or afuris

 

i got +2 extra bullets on my hek too (rank 3, 40%)

[Mietz]

The problem with Magazine Warp is that it competes with mods like Multishot and multishot always wins.

 

Multishot is the most useful mod in the whole game, it reduces your ammo consumption and increases your DPS at the same time.

 

Magazine Warp is just too weak without improving any of the actual damage output of the gun.

You can shoot marginally longer (by % of Magazine Warp) but thats it.

 

If you slot Multishot you get two bullets for one, so you consume less ammo per damage dealt per time interval.

MS is just more efficient in a slot. If you want a filler-mod, go with reload speed, it will increase sustain just as much.

[MJ12]

It's lower than other weapons to keep balance.

If you have magazine warp on a gorgon or something, it adds 30 extra bullets. Sure, the Gorgon goes through that pretty fast, but still.

And then you have stuff like the Snipetron, where any Magazine warp over 15% is useless. 15% of 4 gets rounded up to 5 shots, anything higher doesn't increase the magazine capacity.

I played pre Update 7 when individual +magazine size mods could be up to +50% and mods were multiplicative, so with the 4x25% magazine size you could get from levelups that might as well be +100% magazine size.

Funnily enough nobody found that particularly unbalanced.

To make them competitive with +damage mods, Magazine Size and Spare Ammo should be around 25% a level and both cost 2 energy base.

"But a Snipetron or Hek with 10 shots is OP!" Someone will say.

Compared to a Snipetron or Hek with 90+% multishot? Or +100% damage? Really?

[stacey69]

I use mag warp and it helps a lot when defending something. Obviously not needed on missions. Balancing a weapon is choice and I cant be asked to explain how having extra ammo etc affects your dps. You'll work all this out one day.

[DaveC]

Mathematically, magazine warp and/or extra ammo simply doesn't make sense. I don't ever use either mod. You can do more total damage with other better mods.

[Gregio]

I played pre Update 7 when individual +magazine size mods could be up to +50% and mods were multiplicative, so with the 4x25% magazine size you could get from levelups that might as well be +100% magazine size.

Funnily enough nobody found that particularly unbalanced.

To make them competitive with +damage mods, Magazine Size and Spare Ammo should be around 25% a level and both cost 2 energy base.

"But a Snipetron or Hek with 10 shots is OP!" Someone will say.

Compared to a Snipetron or Hek with 90+% multishot? Or +100% damage? Really?

A Snipetron with 10 shots, 90% multishot and 105% damage IS overpowered.

A Snipetron with 5 shots, 90% multishot and 105% damage isn't. As much, anyways.

Or a Hek, either way, since people hate the Snipetron.

The only way you won't have those 3 mods together is if you don't have a catalyst on the weapon. And most "main" weapons do.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Gregio

[Argoms]

A Snipetron with 10 shots, 90% multishot and 105% damage IS overpowered.

A Snipetron with 5 shots, 90% multishot and 105% damage isn't. As much, anyways.

Or a Hek, either way, since people hate the Snipetron.

The only way you won't have those 3 mods together is if you don't have a catalyst on the weapon. And most "main" weapons do.

Catalyst weapons are all overpowered given our current enemy levels. At the level where they would match enemy difficulty, the snipetron would've sacrificed a chunk of damage, potentially forcing it to go for headshots on non-heavy enemies.

 

What happens to the other guns? If the snipetron becomes "overpowered" with this, how about every other gun in existence, since the snipetron's considered one of (if not the) worst primaries? 

[PlebbyMilliner]

I use them quite a bit in different flavors. If I'm finding it takes a mag + a little to kill an enemy, I'm better off to use a slight mag increase.

 

For shotguns or guns with really slow reloads, the comparable mod is a lifesaver. Going from 6 shots to 8 on a Strum means another enemy I can deal with before the long reload.

[Argoms]

I use them quite a bit in different flavors. If I'm finding it takes a mag + a little to kill an enemy, I'm better off to use a slight mag increase.

 

For shotguns or guns with really slow reloads, the comparable mod is a lifesaver. Going from 6 shots to 8 on a Strum means another enemy I can deal with before the long reload.

Shotgun mag mods give twice the bonus that rifle/pistol do, and start at 2 instead of 4, by the way. 

[stacey69]

Use a mod because you like it and it balances the weapon too the feel of your play style. Going for cookie cutter X + damage all the way isn't the best way to spec in my opinion (imo). Once your damage multipliers are 5 notch and above you can think about balance and not extra damage and make the game a lot more enjoyable. ie: Being able to kill 25 mobs not 20 before you reload due to mag warp: Faster reloading can save lives as well. Ammo drum can take you just a few waves further than you did before, etc etc etc.

 

Learn to balance and enjoy. Cookie cutter isn't always the way to go.

[securitywyrm]

Gorgon + Magazine warp + Speed trigger = Bullet hose of death!

[MJ12]

Use a mod because you like it and it balances the weapon too the feel of your play style. Going for cookie cutter X + damage all the way isn't the best way to spec in my opinion (imo). Once your damage multipliers are 5 notch and above you can think about balance and not extra damage and make the game a lot more enjoyable. ie: Being able to kill 25 mobs not 20 before you reload due to mag warp: Faster reloading can save lives as well. Ammo drum can take you just a few waves further than you did before, etc etc etc.

 

Learn to balance and enjoy. Cookie cutter isn't always the way to go.

 

The problem is that "more damage" is basically always more optimal than the tiny boost in magazine size you get. The only edge cases are the Hek and Snipetron. If I add 30% more damage on a rapid-fire weapon, that means I use 25% fewer bullets most of the time and thus have an effective bonus to both my magazine size and spare ammo of 33%.

 

A mod shouldn't be only useful if you "like it", it should be useful no matter what. Even if I hate the mod I should be able to look at it and go "okay this would help a lot but I don't like it so I'll use something else."

[11.11.11]

To my mind the Magazine warp gives far too little of a boost for the energy it costs. It should at least be doubled to a 10% base effect. 

[TheHeraldXII]

It's really unfair to compare damage and utility mods, because we already know that everyone has 6/8 slots filled up with Base Damage+, Elemental Damage + and Multishot, things like Mag Warp are there for the remaining 2 slots to alter the weapon so it suits your playstyle better.

[Mak_Gohae]

If you are going to min/max everything how do you NOT understand that some stuff will not work according to that?

Edited May 7, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[PaperAlien]

I feel like Rifles should be the category with largest magazine increases. I'm not sure if it currently already is, but 30% is still a bit low. 50% would seem more reasonable.

[Phoenix86]

yes and also by: Fire Ball, Mind Control, Shuriken and a few other

[stacey69]

The problem is that "more damage" is basically always more optimal than the tiny boost in magazine size you get. The only edge cases are the Hek and Snipetron. If I add 30% more damage on a rapid-fire weapon, that means I use 25% fewer bullets most of the time and thus have an effective bonus to both my magazine size and spare ammo of 33%.

 

A mod shouldn't be only useful if you "like it", it should be useful no matter what. Even if I hate the mod I should be able to look at it and go "okay this would help a lot but I don't like it so I'll use something else."

 

Put speed trigger and all your damage mods on Boltor then go defend. You'll reloading and backing off allowing mobs near the Cryo constantly.

 

Balance I said. Mag warp and less speed lowers dps but Balances the weapon for the job required. I'm fully aware of the percentages and how mods change weapons. I was trying to explain it to someone else.

[Ryanshow]

Gorgon + Magazine warp + Speed trigger = Bullet hose of death!

 

You only get 27 more bullets though.

 

It isn't really significant.

 

You'd be better off adding damage.

[DaveC]

You only get 27 more bullets though.

 

It isn't really significant.

 

You'd be better off adding damage.

I think your wasting your time trying to convince some people, because your dealing with emotion, people "feel" it's better even though the math says otherwise. Buff the damage+speed trigger+reload speed+cold or convulsion damage mod and your good. As you rightly say a few extra bullets....so what.