Ash Needs Some Love?

[ReiganCross]

Shuriken: In my opinion Shuriken has nothing wrong, full upgraded can hit for a 1000 headshot.

 

The Shuriken is weak as a skill AND an idiotic idea for a power that they DO plan to remove/outclass by a regular throwing side-arm. So yeah, LOTS of things wrong with that nasty piece of work.

 

(Yes, this have been said before, but not been said enough!)

[ReiganCross]

Also, y'know what? Teleport could be an awesome skill... The only problem is that i need a target to execute it... I wish i kind of could just teleport anywhere like Loki can, but without setting the Decoy to do it. If that were the case, if i could just blink into a pointed location, it could remain the same.

 

Teleport would be that awesome skill about positioning yourself, perfect for avoiding detection and setting Stealth Kills. Just picture it, you're about to be detected, nowhere to go, you point upwards towards a catwalk, teleport away from the field of vision then jump back down behind him and sneak him. When i bought Ash, THAT's what i had in mind when i knew he had a Teleport ability. (I also thought Shuriken was going to be more like the current Glaive...)

Edited May 9, 2013 by ReiganCross

[Tsukinoki]

@ReiganCross
The Glaive can already easily outclass it if you are good enough to aim.  It can easily deal the same charge damage as a shuriken can and it can use elements.

I just cant wait to see what they are planning on doing with it.

I also like your thoughts on teleport.  It would really help with stealth missions.  The only thing is that it may lead to getting trapped in areas that you can teleport to but if you dont have enough energy to teleport out of them...but they could fix that with some general work on some of the tiles.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[Tulzscha]

Teleport would be that awesome skill about positioning yourself, perfect for avoiding detection and setting Stealth Kills. Just picture it, you're about to be detected, nowhere to go, you point upwards towards a catwalk, teleport away from the field of vision then jump back down behind him and sneak him. When i bought Ash, THAT's what i had in mind when i knew he had a Teleport ability. (I also thought Shuriken was going to be more like the current Glaive...)

 

That was also my expectation when I used Ash actually, I was like "awesome, I can be like Nightcrawler".

 

Then I first used it and promptly get a rifle butt smashed in my face, get staggered, because Ash needs to do this stylish flip in front of the enemy to fully announce his arrival.

 

Removed it from the slots and never used it again lol.

[ReiganCross]

@ReiganCross

The Glaive can already easily outclass it if you are good enough to aim.  It can easily deal the same charge damage as a shuriken can and it can use elements.

I just cant wait to see what they are planning on doing with it.

I also like your thoughts on teleport.  It would really help with stealth missions.  The only thing is that it may lead to getting trapped in areas that you can teleport to but if you dont have enough energy to teleport out of them...but they could fix that with some general work on some of the tiles.

 

So yeah, you just further proved that Shuriken, as it stands, is useless... And it won't really much matter if they set the number to a whooping 3000 damage, it would still be kind of a bad skill for 25 points.

 

And the traping problem is already felt by Lokis everywhere, as movement powers show up they WILL have to fix those things so bugs cannot be in the mind of the creator when developing a power. As you said, general fixing on some tiles is the way to go!

[ReiganCross]

That was also my expectation when I used Ash actually, I was like "awesome, I can be like Nightcrawler".

 

Then I first used it and promptly get a rifle butt smashed in my face, get staggered, because Ash needs to do this stylish flip in front of the enemy to fully announce his arrival.

 

Removed it from the slots and never used it again lol.

 

I know, right?... That was exactly in my mind "Holy smokes, i can be like ninja nightcrawler with guns. this game is frigging awesome!"... Then i was disapointed... But hey, i'm still regular ninja with guns, so it's still awesome... Still wish i could be ninja nightcrawler.

[Caliocerion]

I know, right?... That was exactly in my mind "Holy smokes, i can be like ninja nightcrawler with guns. this game is frigging awesome!"... Then i was disapointed... But hey, i'm still regular ninja with guns, so it's still awesome... Still wish i could be ninja nightcrawler.

The thing about Ash is that his skills don't even make him as ninja as Excalibur.

[Zimmies]

ash doesn't feel as stealthy as i thought it'd be..

[Belpharon]

The way I see it the BIGGEST thing I want to see change in Ash is his teleport. With the coming of the throwing knives and shurikens, I'll wait and see what Ash's new 1 ability is. Smoke screen handles well enough, maybe a slight duration buff, but to be fair it already has a stun, and then bladestorm...could be faster, but it's fine.

But Teleport is tactically useless, and I think there are three ways to solve it, which maybe combined as seen fit.

1) classic teleport behind him undetected. Important that during combat when the enemy knows where you are the guy should not turn around an smack you; he should still be unaware of you until you make your presence known with a hammer. If coding that is hard, then do that and pair it with...(segway to (2))

2) make Ash invulnerable during the backflip animation where he appears (or remove it) but at least add quarter of a second of invincibility so you don't get bashed in the face.

 

3) stun the enemy/enemies around you. Not viable for stealth, as it will probably tip enemy off. least favorite idea.

 

It would still be useless for me or anyone that is going to be using a Throwing Type melee weapon because you don't want to be in melee range.  The only way teleport gets useful is as a fast movement tool.

 

Someone posted the other day about how a skill called "blink" (teleport) was used in another game.  Basically you could target any point in range and then teleport to that point.  This is what I want, then I can choose to teleport to an enemy if I am using Dual Ethers or over to another catwalk if I am using my Glaive.  The goal should be useful all the time, not useful ONLY if you are using specific weapons.

 

Honestly, they need to do a pass like this on all abilities and start asking if they are useful all the time rather than just useful if the stars align with Jupiter and only if you have  Hek equiped.

[Pi_Masta]

No but seriously, are you missing something about how horrible Shuriken is compared to the other Warframe first abilities? 25 power... count it.... 25 power from Ash's already scant energy pool to hopefully line up a single target for a headshot?

 

From my experience I would take Shuriken over Mag's Pull ability.

Same 25 power from the same scant energy pool (just checked they have the same max energy, though mag has ~ slots so flow or whatever is somewhat easier to get/use)

Let's look at the good uses of Pull shall we?

Pull the annoying shields off of shield lancers (Faction and enemy specific), or save 25 energy and circle around the shield or just melee their butt

Pull some enemy near/next to you and hope you can land a mega melee strike that kills them. (I'd say the precision needed for headshotting with Shuriken, falls close to lining yourself up for a downward melee attack on an enemy that wasn't there on the ground half a second ago)

Pull your buddy to annoy him/her or get them to the extraction a whole 0.5 seconds faster (Ok, I'm being silly, not really a good use of 25 energy)

 

Down sides:

Almost useless for infested (wait 2 seconds and they're in your face, and you normally can't kill an ancient with 1 pull/melee)

If your buddy happens to walk in your LOS when you press 1 - oh look you just wasted 25 energy to pull him next to you... confusing you both for a few moments

 

(I'm actually going to make a Mag raging thread if I can't find one, maybe its just me and I don't know how to use her)

 

Now I've used Shuriken many times while I've been caught reloading. Yeah aiming may need some work but its pretty good damage even if you don't head shot. I'll use it once or twice on heavies (Not aiming for the head) just to bring their shields down. Spam it on bosses (Again not aiming for the head) to get shields down. It acts like a Paris or Bolto bolt in that if it kills its target it can continue and hit another target so lines of enemies, oh yea that's quite worth 25 energy.

 

Teleport - I've actually used this alot to get in the middle of the fray and go to town. Though most of my friends are lower level than me and I can tank the shots. Also I just got the Hek so I've been giving it a lot of love teleporting in the middle of enemies and blasting 4 or more grineer off the platform. It probably could use a small buff like going behind the target, that's what the grineer flame guys do? Also I think the first boss does that too. As a side note if you didn't know this already: You can teleport to other players, decoys, hostages, and defense objects. The blink teleport (teleport to where you are looking at) would be cool too, but one thing the current system can do and the blink can't is teleport onto a platform above you (you can see the enemy but not the ground he's running on). Its a small disadvantage if you can call it that. I'd still be fine with it though IMO it would need a more hefty energy price for that amount of freedom.

 

Smoke Screen - Or as I call it: The Oh Sh!t button. Suddenly, no shots are on you, you can regen shields AND you can go shoot up enemies or even better melee them for more damage than normal. I suppose duration is a bit small, especially in the first few ranks.

 

Blade Storm - Or as I call it: The 'I win' button. Invulnerability for several seconds while your shields can recharge, instantly kill (or severely hurt) several enemies. Yeah the animation(s) could be made prettier and sometimes it seems to stop targeting enemies sooner than I think it should and it is a bit boring to press a button and watch. But I'm gonna go back and compare it to Mag's ultimate. Yes it deals its damage all at one time, however its after a second or 2 of them floating in the air during which you can take damage or other enemies can close in on you. It's also a smaller point blank area around you versus a larger area around your target up to 50m away, though it has a max limit on targets. Take a guess on which one I'd prefer... (Hint I doubt I could reliably get 13 enemies inside of Crush's kill zone, and Mag is a squishier frame than Ash)

[Stanzwick]

Think they should remove/change the flip animation on teleport and add a small smoke cloud that either gives Ash ~3 secs of invis (maybe like the sentinel's Ghost mod, ends when you attack) or works like smoke screen's radial stun.   Would feel more stealthy, ending on your first attack would (imo) maintain its intended use as a mobility/ambush skill, small radial stun would give you a short period of safety (would also look pretty cool, stunning enemies with a smoke explosion out of teleport). 

[-Grey-]

As an Ash player (and as one who did not enjoy any of the other warframes no matter how many of them I've tried out) I agree with the suggestions.

 

Teleport should be a teleport behind.

 

Shuriken is good as it is (and most of us do not even use it to save points for more important stuff)

 

smoke screen is. Well terrible if we compare to Loki, but since poor Loki is a.... well. lets cut it.

 

Blade storm is indeed slow.

 

Oh and dont forget the fast walk of ash. While most other frames has well animated run dynamics, Ash can only speed-walk. Looks terrible if you ask me. He should get a proper sprint instead of that speeded animation. Looks really bad with a maxed out sprint. Its indeed fast, but looks really bad.

 

Devs, could Ash get a proper sprint animation? Is it possible, or is it ninja-like for you to be not able to run but only speed-walkin? =)

[simeo77]

I'm just wondering if any Developers are looking at this thread and if one of them could say "Yes we hear you and we're working on Ash. Keep it up."

[CharlesSnippy]

I'm just wondering if any Developers are looking at this thread and if one of them could say "Yes we hear you and we're working on Ash. Keep it up."

They have, for the last few livestreams they've mentioned it. He will be getting some love, but update 8 is taking priority right now.

[Shockness]

I'm just wondering if any Developers are looking at this thread and if one of them could say "Yes we hear you and we're working on Ash. Keep it up."

I really hope they're looking into this post, but I think they're only working on shuriken as I heard :/

[Skoll85]

It used to be that you weren't invulnerable during blade storm and could die.  Was hillarious to die as you cast it then watch your dead body teleporting around behind people and watching them suddenly die, even if it makes it harder for your team to revive you.

Please tell me there is a video of this floating around the internet.

[Rowr]

So much QQ, I agree on the "teleport behind" but on the invis, come on it's 35 energy and a stun? loki is 50 energy. And if you go with the argument loki has so much base energy, well compare the other stats of the two and you will be smiling again. And about the ult i think it's good, tho it's not as flashy as it should be but again compare with loki's ult and you will smile like the joker himself. ^^.

[Shockness]

So much QQ, I agree on the "teleport behind" but on the invis, come on it's 35 energy and a stun? loki is 50 energy. And if you go with the argument loki has so much base energy, well compare the other stats of the two and you will be smiling again. And about the ult i think it's good, tho it's not as flashy as it should be but again compare with loki's ult and you will smile like the joker himself. ^^.

The stun is quiet useless if you're going invisible anyway, and nobody looks to to buffs u get when u turn invisible on both Loki and Ash, Ash hits for 50% more with melee attacks ( yellow numbers ) while Loki does a crazy 150% melee damage.. It's 3 times as much. And Loki stays 4 seconds longer invisible, making ash's smoke screen just complete trash?

Edited May 11, 2013 by Shockness

[Nedwin]

Hello fellow Tenno,

 

In my opinion Ash can use some love, with that i mean focourse a buff.

Some will disagree some will agree but let me explain why i think Ash needs a buff.

 

I think it's smart to go with all the ability and say what i think could be done better.

 

Shuriken: In my opinion Shuriken has nothing wrong, full upgraded can hit for a 1000 headshot, although the accuracy is very bad.

 

Smoke Screen: Ash is viewed as the ultimate stealth ninja, but the smoke screen has a smaller amount of time in invisibility than Loki wich i find quiet strange. If Ash is the ultimate ninja atleast increase the duration of Smoke Screen, and also, The hitbox is putting me on my nerves sometimes, when I activate Smoke Screen and let's say an ancient is infront me, while im invisible i still get knocked down or disturded, in my opinion this shouldn't be there, the poison from toxic though is legit and I personally don't mind getting poisened while beging invisible but able to still get hit is not really stealth right?

 

Teleport: As many many many people say teleport is indeed useless, why? It teleports you infront of the enemy and gives you a slight delay to start attacking while the enemy u have teleported to can easily attack you while doing this.

What i think would be nice is once u have teleported u appear on their back and they don't know of anything. Also while you aren't detected yet ( this might be asked too much ) you immidiatly do a stealth attack.

 

Blade Storn: Blade Storm overall is great, I like it, only thing that is kind of a bummer to me is that the killing is very slow, It would be nicer if the time gets speed up a little but so we don't do full seconds for one kill.

 

So this is what I think that could be done a little better for Ash, a lot of people will say Ash is already great, why would you wanna buff it? But Loki is pretty much more stealthier then Ash because hes invisibilty is in all terms better ( only little more energy use ).

 

Tell me what you think and how you might have wanted.

 

This was Shockness, Peace Out !

Nerf/change teleport and watch your teammates using revive points.

[Rowr]

The stun is quiet useless if you're going invisible anyway, and nobody looks to to buffs u get when u turn invisible on both Loki and Ash, Ash hits for 50% more with melee attacks ( yellow numbers ) while Loki does a crazy 150% melee damage.. It's 3 times as much. And Loki stays 4 seconds longer invisible, making ash's smoke screen just complete trash?

Still I believe the duration takes out the low costs. And If you're going to do meele swings while invis atleast do charge up attacks that do 100% more dmage while invis insted of normal attacks. Dont forget that loki's only damage skill is his invis more or less. The fact that Ash actually has a good ultimate compared to loki Is something that shouldn't be ignored. I prefer Loki's decoy over the shuriken tho but still that's something that is more or less a favor then a balance issue (decoy dies quite fast on later levels) And about the teleport, loki does a spin, Ash does a backflip, the two teleportation skills are very situational.

[Shockness]

Still I believe the duration takes out the low costs. And If you're going to do meele swings while invis atleast do charge up attacks that do 100% more dmage while invis insted of normal attacks. Dont forget that loki's only damage skill is his invis more or less. The fact that Ash actually has a good ultimate compared to loki Is something that shouldn't be ignored. I prefer Loki's decoy over the shuriken tho but still that's something that is more or less a favor then a balance issue (decoy dies quite fast on later levels) And about the teleport, loki does a spin, Ash does a backflip, the two teleportation skills are very situational.

Also don't forget Loki's invi does 200% charge, andit's really only 15 power... But still he got so many benefits? If u give ASh the duration of Loki but the Damage buff of now it sould be alright, if u get knocked won in invisibility u have around 1 - 2 seconds of invi left..

[Rowr]

Also don't forget Loki's invi does 200% charge, andit's really only 15 power... But still he got so many benefits? If u give ASh the duration of Loki but the Damage buff of now it sould be alright, if u get knocked won in invisibility u have around 1 - 2 seconds of invi left..

Yes It does 100% more charge damage then Ash, Because It's his bread and butter it's his only skill that makes him do damage as an assassin. If you get lokis awesome invis 4 more seconds, 100% more charge damage but you also get loki's "awesome" fourth ability radial disarm insted of the blade storm. How would that be? ... I mean you've to see and cover all the abilities to see if the whole kit is balanced or not.

Compare Rhino's Iron skin with Ember's overheat. And you'll see something similar.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Rowr

[Shockness]

Yes It does 50% more charge damage then Ash, Because It's his bread and butter it's his only skill that makes him do damage as an assassin. If you get lokis awesome invis 4 more seconds, 50% more charge damage but you also get loki's "awesome" fourth ability radial disarm insted of the blade storm. How would that be? ... I mean you've to see and cover all the abilities to see if the whole kit is balanced or not.

Compare Rhino's Iron skin with Ember's overheat. And you'll see something similar.

You think Ash has wonderfull abilities? The ulti sometimes only kill 4 people in the area of 8, Smoke Screen is the only properly working Ability Ash has? And even then  it's crap compared to others

[Rowr]

You think Ash has wonderfull abilities? The ulti sometimes only kill 4 people in the area of 8, Smoke Screen is the only properly working Ability Ash has? And even then  it's crap compared to others

What the....... 4? they usually kill araound 10-13, I guess you haven't maxed it or using it wrong. And there is nothing wrong with shuriken aslong as you got a decent aim for headshoots.

[Shockness]

What the....... 4? they usually kill araound 10-13, I guess you haven't maxed it or using it wrong. And there is nothing wrong with shuriken aslong as you got a decent aim for headshoots.

I use it right believe me Ash's abilities are just broken and just as you said it's only good when maxed, And with the invi of Loki you won't even need this because you can easily kill the same amount of people for a lower coste of power, since it takes full seconds for a kill anyway.

 

I agree IF shuriken hits it's good but it's a IF. I would pay money to change shuriken for the decoy it just come in handy more often.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Shockness