Picking Up Mods/resources - Why Not For Everyone?

[Enot83]

Based on some of the feedback here is an update on some of the information:

 

Main Ideas:

[ 1 ] Allow items including, materials and modules to be picked up by one person and shared with others.

 

[ 2 ] Exclude health, affinity, and energy orbs, and Blue Prints from this shared pickup system.

 

[ 3 ] Possibly include a radius where items picked up are shared, if you are too far away you will not recieve it.

 

[ 4 ] If you are too far away, a green (color tbd) waypoint tag for "module" perhaps a different symbol also appears. This can be toggled on/off in options or possibly with a key press.  This is implementable even without a shared pickup system.

 

[ 5 ] Possibly include different settings for the range of pickup based on private (organized team play) and online (public play)

 

 

 

 

 

Original post:

 

 

 

Simple question and request, with this being a co-op game, why are mods required to be picked up by everyone?  The same for materials.  Credits that fall don't work this way do they?  (I believe they go to everyone regardless of who picks them up).

 

Request:

Mods picked up are granted to everyone, each person still recieves a mod specific to them when a player runs over one, but only one person on the team needs to pick it up.

 

Resources picked up are granted to everyone, with the different values.

 

Energy, health and affinity still require individual pickup, it makes sense these are not shared as they are an as needed pickup.

 

This falls in line with the recent changes to mission completion/failure.  Failure to complete the mission grants no mods/resources etc only exp.  The idea here is, if I or my teammates finds mods/resources we would obviously after completing the mission share them.  Still can differ what mods are picked up by each when one person grabs it and or the amount of resources.  (I believe that's how it currently works, just requires each person to grab items).

 

This helps alleviate issues on large defense maps and the short time given at the end of a wave, rather than leaving one enemy alive will everyone scrambles around to grab the mods they may have missed teammates who picked it up earlier have accomplished this for others.  I hate seeing those "sparkles" but no mod knowing someone has missed it, and no amount of waypointing gets the one person missing the mod to it.  It keeps people from having to backtrack on missed mods.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Enot83

[Valiant]

Would be nice actually, very nice. Some people don't bother G'ing anything at all or rush off, unloading all the lockers, nabbing the creds while you're not near enough and leaving materials there, materials you might end up not going to because you're busy doing something else (freq. dealing with the enemies they've left behind...). 

 

I hope DE takes this into consideration and does make it so if someone grabs a mod/materials and possibly creds, no matter where you are, you get them. Would make it fair and counter one negative side of the rushing that occurs.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Naith

[Aldunari3]

If they made it so only one person had to pick up mods/mats then it would lead to afk farming, and when trading comes about people would have multiple accounts in the same lobby and simply have one of them run around and pick everything up, then trade it all to the same character.

 

It would be nice on defense maybe, but I still see the issue of afk farming coming into play.

And by the way, its already like this with Credits, if one person grabs them it gives them to everyone.

[Mokufu]

Here's what I understand about what the DEVs are trying to do.  They're trying to create a "COOPERATIVE PLAY" environment.  It means that everyone has to work together in considering what other players might need rather than simply "rushing" the mission.  If everyone received an item just by one person picking them up would kind of negate the need for using the Waypoint option.  Helping other players get what they need throughout the game.

 

I've been in games that don't even bother to help revive other players when they're down.  

 

There is something to be said about doing a little work in getting what you want out of the game.

 

We know that credits are already distributed to the group at the end of the mission.

 

Picking up dropped MODs, because it randomizes it for each person in the group, should still remain individual to make players more "aware" of each other.  

 

Energy, health, and affinity, considering that these are potential aids during battle and should still remain more individual on the players.  I do find more appreciation with the party I'm with when we keep tabs of each other when it comes to health, ranking, or pointing out energy as you're aiding each other against a boss.  Again, more mindfulness and awareness for the other players.  Having it this way makes it a more "cooperative" experience.

[CY13ERPUNK]

i personally disagree completely

 

i think that NOTHING picked up should be spread around the team

 

I do however approve of the "instanced" pickups for all drops (ie every can pick up the same health/power drops/ammo/etc)

 

but i dont want the idiot rusher to benefit from my thorough locker opening and extra mods i get from actually fighting the hordes they run through

 

currently only credits are shared AFAIK, and i'd just as soon see that removed as well 

 

making all drops shared when picked up basically removes even more co-op from the game, and we don't really have much as is currently, we need MORE reasons/incentives to work together, not less

 

instancing and sharing just allows people to be more rambo/selfish and dis-encourages co-op teamwork/play

 

i realize OP seems to have good intentions, i just dont think this is the way to properly incentivize teamwork and good sportsmanship

Edited May 7, 2013 by CY13ERPUNK

[Enot83]

Some good points made.

 

To counter, implement the same thing, just give it a range that it works in, if you run over the mod and people are standing RIGHT there, (maybe extend to 30m) it picks it up for all nearby, keeps the team together.  Or give it the same range as exp.

 

Again maybe there was some misunderstanding to the hint of sarcasm in my OP regarding credits.  You're fine with the credits operating this way, but not the other items.

 

Marking mods currently only causes a mad dash of everyone to that location, to the point of abandoning what they were doing in order to get a mod because if they don't get it, then its their loss.  It causes in a number of cases backtracking that is unnecessary, even for teams that are working together.  The example of rushers is and not giving them any benefit, so to counter their "none coop play" youre going to not play coop with them.  That seems like arguing two wrongs some how make it better?  Your answer to the problem is to be as much of the problem as the other person.

 

How does that fit into a group of 4 players all working together who for example are on a datamass mission or kill the targets, who split up with strategic intent to gather the objectives (or kill) efficiently.  They shouldn't be forced to stay together due to drops, that's arbitrary and silly, being forced to stay together to survive is completely different.

 

The issue of rushers is simple as it has always been, find yourself in games with people like this, don't play with them.  Find you keep running into them, bring your friends with, solo enjoy your time etc.  This becomes something that is obviously not an argument about what I posted about originally, this is a problem that some argue causes all these additional problems.

 

Frankly alot of the counter arguments, other than perhaps the afk'ing are either contrary to team play or only look at it from the standpoint of playing with random players who have bad manners or play differently than you.

 

I suppose perhaps the original idea too with no limitations etc is similar to the change of mission failure = no items, and later the changes that balanced that someplace in the middle, where defence had tiered "save points" if you will.

[Mokufu]

It would be interesting if they had a game that gives you a "psychological evaluation questionnaire" that determines your personality type so when you go to a random game it will put you with other players that have a similar personality as you. LOL   That would be kind of interesting.

 

Anywho, I agree... it's a prevailing thing in most games.  

 

So it's been my decision to play with my clan mates from a previous game who came into this game so I don't have to deal with a lot of the rushing.  We do have a few guys in our clan that kind of go off on their own, but it hasn't been much of an issue.

 

I will occasionally chat with folks either through these forums or through a few of the random ONLINE mode games who actually are pretty considerate of the overall team.

 

I don't always opt for the whole team to "stick together" in one area.  That ends up being counter productive when it comes to doing waves, bosses, etc., but to be mindful enough that you come to each others aid if it comes to pointing out health, energy, and the occasional mod drop.

[Saint_Tan]

Yeah, have to agree that I would not like this approach as stated in the OP.

 

I would prefer the co-op aspect foster helping each other find/slay everything as a unit – and then allow everyone a fair chance at picking items up - if they so wish to.

 

Don’t want it – don’t go get it.  But if you do, take the 5 seconds to go pick it up.

 

However, forcing/allowing one player to, in essence, become a “janitor” that goes around cleaning up after everybody does not sound like the type of fun Warframe was intended to create.

 

Please leave it as is.

 

As an aside:

 

Does everyone get the artifact on the alerts, etc?  If only the one player who actually claims it (glows red) earns this reward, then spreading this out across the team might help curb the whole rushing to be first fad. 

[Tetsmeha]

Socialist/communist ideas and practices dont work in real life what makes you think they'd work in a game?

[MoonicusMaximus]

Simple question and request, with this being a co-op game, why are mods required to be picked up by everyone?  The same for materials.  Credits that fall don't work this way do they?  (I believe they go to everyone regardless of who picks them up).

 

Request:

Mods picked up are granted to everyone, each person still recieves a mod specific to them when a player runs over one, but only one person on the team needs to pick it up.

 

Resources picked up are granted to everyone, with the different values.

 

Energy, health and affinity still require individual pickup, it makes sense these are not shared as they are an as needed pickup.

 

This falls in line with the recent changes to mission completion/failure.  Failure to complete the mission grants no mods/resources etc only exp.  The idea here is, if I or my teammates finds mods/resources we would obviously after completing the mission share them.  Still can differ what mods are picked up by each when one person grabs it and or the amount of resources.  (I believe that's how it currently works, just requires each person to grab items).

 

This helps alleviate issues on large defense maps and the short time given at the end of a wave, rather than leaving one enemy alive will everyone scrambles around to grab the mods they may have missed teammates who picked it up earlier have accomplished this for others.  I hate seeing those "sparkles" but no mod knowing someone has missed it, and no amount of waypointing gets the one person missing the mod to it.  It keeps people from having to backtrack on missed mods.

 

Because then, all I need to do is sit in spawn and wait until you chumps beat the mission for me.

 

Free rewards, baby.

[HvcTerr]

How about this as a balance between "convenient" and "exploitable":

 

[1] Mods/resources/blueprints will continue to drop "separate copies" for each user.

 

[2] When any player picks them up, all nearby teammates automatically receive their copies as well.

 

[3] Teammates who were too far for automatic-pickup instead get a permanent marker/identifier on their screen so that they know something is waiting for them.

 

Note that none of this applies to health or energy orbs, because there are good reasons people may  not want to pick those up at a given moment.

Edited May 7, 2013 by HvcTerr

[Tetsmeha]

+1 I'd love to take off my rush mod and build tank to afk farm

[MJ12]

Because then, all I need to do is sit in spawn and wait until you chumps beat the mission for me.

 

Free rewards, baby.

 

If you're that kind of player no incentives are going to make you a good team player. Not a terribly good argument.

[RealityMachina]

If you're that kind of player no incentives are going to make you a good team player. Not a terribly good argument.

To be somewhat fair this is a bit of a problem since AFAIK there is no way to kick bad squad members unlike in games like ME3 MP.

 

Of course, the good solution to this is...well, add a kick function. The invisible hand of the free market good players will handle it from there. :p

[Sebbo]

+1 I'd love to take off my rush mod and build tank to afk farm

 

I laughed so hard until the thought came into my mind: "What if he is serious?!" :O

[StandardJarl4]

Here's what I understand about what the DEVs are trying to do.  They're trying to create a "COOPERATIVE PLAY" environment.  It means that everyone has to work together in considering what other players might need rather than simply "rushing" the mission.  If everyone received an item just by one person picking them up would kind of negate the need for using the Waypoint option.  Helping other players get what they need throughout the game.

 

I've been in games that don't even bother to help revive other players when they're down.  

 

There is something to be said about doing a little work in getting what you want out of the game.

 

We know that credits are already distributed to the group at the end of the mission.

 

Picking up dropped MODs, because it randomizes it for each person in the group, should still remain individual to make players more "aware" of each other.  

 

Energy, health, and affinity, considering that these are potential aids during battle and should still remain more individual on the players.  I do find more appreciation with the party I'm with when we keep tabs of each other when it comes to health, ranking, or pointing out energy as you're aiding each other against a boss.  Again, more mindfulness and awareness for the other players.  Having it this way makes it a more "cooperative" experience.my re

my request is that the mods/resources still have to be picked up by everyone, but if someone needs a revive the team shouldn't be able to continue the mission until they are revived, if they die and don't revive the mission should continue but the credits reduced a litte

[Enot83]

How about this as a balance between "convenient" and "exploitable":

 

[1] Mods/resources/blueprints will continue to drop "separate copies" for each user.

 

[2] When any player picks them up, all nearby teammates automatically receive their copies as well.

 

[3] Teammates who were too far for automatic-pickup instead get a permanent marker/identifier on their screen so that they know something is waiting for them.

 

Note that none of this applies to health or energy orbs, because there are good reasons people may  not want to pick those up at a given moment.

 

I agree with alot of this, I hope it wasn't lost that I did respond to some of this that others who responded after didn't seem to catch.

 

I do believe from the initial idea, there is some balancing and fine tuning that can allow for co-op play that makes sense and doesn't allow for a system that can be overly abused, but is an improvement over the current looting.

 

In particular, your third note would be one of the best even without a change to loot distribution, currently its almost a game in and of itself to mark modules and have "module" appear instead of waypoint.  Some of us enjoy using the waypoint system for things other than marking mods, and using it to indicate a location for one member only to have others rapidly run to it hunting under boxes in expectation to find a mod is a bit silly.

[MoonicusMaximus]

If you're that kind of player no incentives are going to make you a good team player. Not a terribly good argument.

 

My scenario was an example, not my intentions should this idea be passed.

 

But the point isn't being a good team player or not. It's that if I get the items that other people pick up, I essentially have to do nothing the whole mission. There's no incentive for me to stay with my team or help my team if all I want is to complete the mission and reap the rewards.

 

Or do you not see the inherent flaw in that?

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[RealityMachina]

My scenario was an example, not my intentions should this idea be passed.

 

But the point isn't being a good team player or not. It's that if I get the items that other people pick up, I essentially have to do nothing the whole mission. There's no incentive for me to stay with my team or help my team if all I want is to complete the mission and reap the rewards.

 

Or do you not see the inherent flaw in that?

...which can be easily solved by adding in a kick function for squads, making it so the reward of being an utter prick who refuses to help out teams is outweighed by the risks (That is, being constantly kicked out of squads for being an utter prick.)

[MJ12]

My scenario was an example, not my intentions should this idea be passed.

 

But the point isn't being a good team player or not. It's that if I get the items that other people pick up, I essentially have to do nothing the whole mission. There's no incentive for me to stay with my team or help my team if all I want is to complete the mission and reap the rewards.

 

Or do you not see the inherent flaw in that?

 

And right now we still have rushers and guys who DC the moment they don't get a BP drop/the BP drop isn't what they want despite the consequences. People are going to do exactly that no matter what the consequences are because they're social retards. Given that giving them the stick repeatedly doesn't do anything, why exactly should we keep giving them the stick when all it hurts are legitimate players?

 

The "lose everything if you quit mid-mission" thing punishes anyone who may have to leave the game unexpectedly but doesn't stop rushers. The current pick up everything system punishes anyone who has to deal with one of those rushers leaving mods/mats in his wake but not bothering to mark where they fell. You already share credits, why not share materials and mods?

[MoonicusMaximus]

...which can be easily solved by adding in a kick function for squads, making it so the reward of being an utter prick who refuses to help out teams is outweighed by the risks (That is, being constantly kicked out of squads for being an utter prick.)

 

Hey, I think kick functions are great. They should be in the game. But until they are, I can't condone this kind of idea, for the reasons I've outlined. Although the potential for abuse is pretty high, considering that a majority of 4 people... really isn't that many. Has DE even commented on the players asking for a kick function?

 

And right now we still have rushers and guys who DC the moment they don't get a BP drop/the BP drop isn't what they want despite the consequences. People are going to do exactly that no matter what the consequences are because they're social retards. Given that giving them the stick repeatedly doesn't do anything, why exactly should we keep giving them the stick when all it hurts are legitimate players?

 

The "lose everything if you quit mid-mission" thing punishes anyone who may have to leave the game unexpectedly but doesn't stop rushers. The current pick up everything system punishes anyone who has to deal with one of those rushers leaving mods/mats in his wake but not bothering to mark where they fell. You already share credits, why not share materials and mods?

 

So, because people are still going to AFK anyway, we should still reward them? This is basically what I got from your reply.

 

The issues with rushers won't be solved with this, and I doubt the OP even intended for them to be the focus. Dealing with the rusher problem should be handled somewhere else, not the drop system.

 

The potential for abuse outweighs the benefits of having the loot system work in this manner. I'd much rather deal with a rusher who, at the very least is helping me somewhat by killing things in the rooms ahead of me, than have to deal with two AFK Rhino's sitting in the spawn, doing nothing to help me and my other teammate while they reap the rewards of my own efforts.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[MJ12]

The potential for abuse outweighs the benefits of having the loot system work in this manner. I'd much rather deal with a rusher who, at the very least is helping me somewhat by killing things in the rooms ahead of me, than have to deal with two AFK Rhino's sitting in the spawn, doing nothing to help me and my other teammate while they reap the rewards of my own efforts.

 

So if they're not doing anything, quit and let them stay there for hours getting nothing. This really isn't a problem that can be fixed in any other method besides having a List of Shame wherein you can mark AFKers and give them social consequences for being jerks.

[MoonicusMaximus]

So if they're not doing anything, quit and let them stay there for hours getting nothing. This really isn't a problem that can be fixed in any other method besides having a List of Shame wherein you can mark AFKers and give them social consequences for being jerks.

 

So if I'm a ways into a mission and I just now notice that two guys haven't left spawn, I should to leave the game.

 

Mmmm hmmm.

 

My point is that the OP's suggestion has too much potential for abuse as things are right now. The current system works fine; if players aren't there to contribute, they don't get the opportunity to pick up dropped loot. Add a kick system and it might make sense. Until then, I don't agree with the OP.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[MJ12]

So if I'm a ways into a mission and I just now notice that two guys haven't left spawn, I should to leave the game.

 

Mmmm hmmm.

 

My point is that the OP's suggestion has too much potential for abuse as things are right now. The current system works fine; if players aren't there to contribute, they don't get the opportunity to pick up dropped loot. Add a kick system and it might make sense. Until then, I don't agree with the OP.

 

How exactly would you fail to notice that they left the spawn until you're so far into the mission where quitting is less preferable to slogging it through? Alternatively, if they don't leave the spawn/don't have kills/haven't done anything in general you get their end of mission credit and affinity bonuses (they get nothing), for 'carrying' them, even if they get the mods.

 

Reward people for suffering social retards with grace and dignity instead of giving them 'punishments' which don't really work out.

[MoonicusMaximus]

How exactly would you fail to notice that they left the spawn until you're so far into the mission where quitting is less preferable to slogging it through? Alternatively, if they don't leave the spawn/don't have kills/haven't done anything in general you get their end of mission credit and affinity bonuses (they get nothing), for 'carrying' them, even if they get the mods.

 

Reward people for suffering social retards with grace and dignity instead of giving them 'punishments' which don't really work out.

Some people take longer to load into the level than others. Sometimes we'll move ahead while they load, and sometimes we get enthralled in the action enough to not notice that there are one or two missing. It's pretty easy to get into the game to a point where you don't take notice to anything but the people in the room with you.

 

And mods are a lot more important than credits or affinity. I most certainly do not want to be feeding mods to people who are not helping. Why would you even suggest it?

 

And punishment? Hah? What punishment? If I'm with my team and playing the game, I see mods drop and I pick them up. If I'm not a social retard, I mark it too so other people can pick it up. Every game I'm in, people mark dropped mods. There's nothing wrong with the current loot system.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus