Nekros: An Exhaustive Review

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

EDIT: I am often told that my posts need a TL;DR button. This one is no exception. When I said exhaustive, I meant it.

 

 

In the following post, I will share an extensive review of my experience of Nekros, covering everything from appearance, to secondary equipment, to loadouts, and builds. For Nekros, I should note that people have very little imagination for him, and because of that, it negatively affects how they treat people while playing Nekros. People generally see him as their personal resource booster, and have grown to expect that the Pilot of Nekros not have any fun or contribute in any way, aside from wanking until the corpses produce loot. On several occasions, I have seen Vitriol for even suggesting that people use Nekros in a way that doesnt suit them. I have grown to hate these people. In this review, I am not kind to these people, and refer to them as your Warframe Pimp, because they treat us like we are their loot @#&*(, and literally become abusive toward us when we dont comply. I hope it helps you realize that Nekros is not a 100,000 Credit hooker.

 

Appearance: Nekros is a very good looking frame. He is among the skinniest, as well as the second creepiest, if we are considering the Agile Limbo stance. His normal helmet is likely my least favorite, but that doesnt mean that I think it is a bad helmet. It is reminiscent of the old spaniards helmet, and so it has an old world vibe about it, mixed with a distant futuristic look. All in all, Nekros has a great natural appearance. His alternate helmets are good. The Shroud helmet has the look of chainmail about it, which doesnt look that great, but it's cool to have some moving pieces. I purchased it on accident, meaning to get the Raknis, but I still got some time with it. The Raknis is obviously the overall community favorite. I've seen exactly two people ever, that did not bring with it the Raknis helmet. I will admit that I am one of those that holds the Raknis in such high regard, as well as the muerto syandana. If I had my way, I would say that the Enigma Loki helmet ought to have been for Nekros though. I even throw on the Naberus shoulder pieces, for that added little bit of love. So I'm a @#&*( for accessories...sue me. Most notable about Nekros, is the fact that he has the most ominous and scary stance, and as soon as DE made it an available for purchase, I didnt hesitate to get it. There are few frames where this stance doesnt make them look as epic as a top tier DC superhero. The only downside, is with each stance, comes their display of power, and in the stance of Nekros, he does this ominous thing where he looks like someone blitzed on ecstacy, that cant get enough of looking at their own hands. As for how the stance translates to alternate frames, see for yourself: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I get it. It gets old to look at in a photo, but give it a look while it's yet in motion, and you may change your mind. In my own opinion, this stance is the look of one that is mighty. As a final note, he has one of the best Immortal skins available, if you are smart about how you wear it. Keep in mind that Tint Color 4 shades the area that outlines the melee channeling. So long as this is a dark color, whatever your energy color is, will look amazing. Check it out:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nekros is one beautiful looking frame, and considering the price it takes to get him, that is nothing to sneeze at. 

 

 

"Am I blue and black, or white and gold?"

 

Passives: It is unfortunate, how his passive power functions, and really, it is only an extension of SOTD, in that it collects his kills. Now, everybody and their mentally deficient brother knows the build that I refer to as the "Slave Build", more popularly known as the Desecrate build. I refer to it as such, because people get &!$$ed off when Nekros isnt there to serve them, and frankly, that absolutely &!$$es me off, to no end. I get that he is, at his core, a support frame, but when the majority of the community looks at you like you are their very own personal Resource booster, it is my opinion that you ought to tell them to shove it up their Frame. Nekros collects the dead, with every kill that he makes. His passive is the power to build an army 20(ish) strong, and you should be wise with this. This means that you need to prioritize your targets. This way, you can balance support, as well as weaponizing your Nekros in a way that other frames simply cannot achieve, and that is calling on all of the horde bonuses that make the Infestation so formiddable, or the buffers that make the Corpus such a frustrating foe, or the air superiority of the Grineer Hellions. Nekros, contrary to the selfish Tenno that have decided that you are their loot @#&*(, is very much capable of being a weaponized warlord. More on this later.

 

BASE STATS:

 

Armor: At 65 armor, Nekros is a fair candidate for a Rage build, in that he doesnt take too much damage, but at the same time, he takes enough to manage a healthy, and constant, intake of energy. In my experience, 65 is about perfect for a Rage build.

 

Shields: Dont bother with these. Nekros does not have great Damage mitigation, in terms of Shields. In fact, the only thing that modding for shields on a Nekros is good for, is the novelty 666. Not only is focusing on shields with Nekros a waste in general, but it is something that one would do, only if they had no other option. Say all you want about SOTD Shield Ospreys, but that paltry 1-200 shields for the duration of that power is a poor mans Fast Deflection, at best.

 

Health: Please, focus on this defensive stat. His health is 100, capping at 300. With Nekros, his health is an alternate energy source. Not only that, but it is an energy source that he excels are renewing. I will explain more in Desecrate, and in the Loadout.

 

Movement:  

 

Stamina: He has the base stamina of 100, but I bet most of you dont recall, with how often you stand still, and desecrate for your Warframe Pimps. At 100, he is doing well enough for what he is needed for. You dont need to be on the run, but you need stamina for him, and the primary focus of this is melee. 

 

Sprint Speed:  With a 1.1 movement speed, he is barely faster than the minimum, but he is fast enough to make a difference, and this is a much needed feature for a frame that has a mediocre armor class. 

 

Power: 150. Thats really all he needs, due to his power set. 

 

Abilities: 

 

Soul Punch: This power is actually really cool. It may not be the most damaging out there, but you have to use a scale to determine it's power. First off, I want to make it clear that this power has incredible range, peaking at 50 meters unranked, and for all of you that think this is not all that great, I bet if your Warframe Pimp let you off your leash, you'd see that the range you equipped for your Desecrate build would have made this reach a football field away. That being said, it does fairly good damage for what it is meant for. Keep in mind that Nekros, with this build, is meant to prioritize targets for assassination, and take out whatever is the most powerful beings there are, to build a strong army. SP is good for keeping those stronger enemies on their backside while you wait. Now, you need to know that this is not great CC, but now that you can spam SP in rapid succession, it does good enough. This will ragdoll whoever you decide to screw with and it will do so under stealth, so you can even use this on stealth missions, or even Mastery stealth missions. In addition, since the revamp of this power, you can use it without interrupting reloads, or wall running.

 

Soul Survivor: This power is pretty legit, but it comes at a fairly large cost. First off, it takes up valuable mod space, and it takes a very particular build to make an invincible Nekros. Second, it will reduce you to somewhere around 32% of your total health. Third, your Warframe pimp will not find this helpful, as you will not be able to revive him to full strength. I wouldnt really equip this, unless they worked on it a little more. I think that, if a downed ally is within the AOE, that they ought to be revived at that point as well, but maybe I'm being greedy.

 

Terrify: This power is one of the best CC in the game, in my opinion, because it doubles in utility. Not only do they flee at a slowed pace, but they lose armor value. It turns the highest level enemies into the most petrified weaklings that you will ever see. Working in tandem with Corrosive Projection, this power renders the most powerful heavy gunner incapable of defending themself. With all of the Desecrate only builds out there, this power has gone unappreciated. With the recent buff, I would say that it is neck in neck with Chaos. Sure, they arent killing one another, but neither are the killing you, and it annihilates their armor. Assuming you have two people running Corrosive projection, this power can eliminate armor altogether, but even if this wasnt the case, you would still be able to eliminate ones capability to defend onseself, in that they are mindless and afraid. Even if they had armor protection, they are still sitting ducks, and since they arent moving that fast, you can use it as an opportunity to work on Headshots, or Healing via Lifestrike. 

 

Desecrate: So should I really waste my time on this power? Anybody that is anybody knows that Nekros is a one man resource booster, but how far can this power take him? Well, I'll be honest: I dont have very good luck. I've used hardcore desecrate builds previously, and even with them, I mainly get health, and nothing else. Thing is, this isnt a problem. This only makes Nekros more powerful, and it is for this reason that Nekros ought to never go without Equilibrium. With this, I've found that it is nearly impossible to run out of energy, with one exception: When you are full on health. You cant pick up the Health orbs, if you have no need of health, but that whole problem is solved by Despoil.

 

Despoil: Finally, there came to be a fix for Desecrate/Equilibrium builds. This build has always served me well, but it hits roadblocks from time to time. Either you fill up on energy, and you cant score health, or you fill up on Health, and cant score energy. Now, all of these roadblocks are negligible. Even if you are full on energy, you can just hit Terrify. I say Terrify because there may be no enemy for SP, and you may have no Shadows in reserve. It's a solid strategy. If not left, then down #PS4lingo. It used to be, I'd carry a Penta, or an Angstrum, just to damage my health, so that I could gather some health orbs to convert to energy. With Despoil, you never have to worry about a Health, or an Energy, reaching its cap and blocking the benefits of Equilibrium. Originally, I would even go in with a Equilibrium/Rage/QT/Decaying Key, which may sound silly, but I knew that I had to take damage for Rage and Equilibrium to activate, so I eliminated the shields as much as I could as a means of ensuring that I take health damage. I may be beating a dead horse at this point, but the fact that you take health damage by using Despoil is more valuable than the fact that it doesnt draw on your energy. It provides an endless battery of energy, without the High Risk method of using a Rage build. Another reason it's superior to the Rage build, is how easily it is acquired. For an affective Rage Build, you would have to farm Rage, and Quick Thinking, and you should seriously consider Flow, and ranking up all of those listed. On the other hand, Despoil can be purchased from Perrin Sequence, and Red Veil, and aside from that, you need only a short Lehpantis farming session for Equilibrium.

 

Shadows of the Dead: This power has a lot of different functions, believe it or not, and is the bread and butter of weaponizing your Nekros. In the event that your Warframe pimp lets you off your leash long enough to have fun with Nekros. Chief among it's uses, taking a step back to the days before the buff, was Damage Mitigation. For those of you beating your chests about your unimaginative definition of Damage Mitigation, I challenge you to rethink it, and that our common ground would be the following dictionary definition of Mitigation: the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something. If you put the word "Damage" before that, then I'm sure your imagination would come to the following conclusion: 

 

Your Grineer Allies have fallen in combat, and even though they will be cloned tomorrow, you are still hell bent on destroying these Tenno, because the replacement clones will have no recollection of that ten credit wager that they lost to you in their past life yesterday. Suddenly, the Tenno does a little rave dance with energy swirling about him, noticeably out of tempo with the tile sets music, and as you are about to serve him a dose of dance fever, the very same Grineer that lost the bet to you appears before you and says "SCREW YOUR TEN CREDIT WAGER! I'M THE FREAKING UNDEAD!!!". Knowing that your former poker comrade is laughing at you, you have decided to fire upon him, hopefully ending the life of that idiot a second time, if only to loot the corpse of the undead copy of the clone for your ten credits. You pump him full of bullets, from your incredibly efficient, if remarkably ugly duct-taped Karak, and end his unlife. As the rest of your undead allies have been destroyed, you think, "WAIT! Where did the Tenno Go!?!" 

 

Huh? Your imagination didnt take you there? Fine. The point is: DISTRACTION. When you suddenly have an army of the undead marching toward you, you get a bit distracted. Back to the actual review though. SOTD is fantastic at reducing incoming damage, and after the recent buff, they are even more durable, as well as more damaging. This is the first reason that you should prioritize your targets. Nekros may not be the whipping boy that everybody wants him to be, but he is, again, at his core, a support frame, so please support your allies. Still, I would argue that SOTD is the best support you can provide for them, because loot isnt support. Terrify is support. Extra allies to draw gunfire is support. CC, however minor, is support. 

 

SOTD and the Grineer: Grineer maps yield the worst results, IMO, with SOTD. The reason being, is that most of their ammo deals Impact damage, since they have it out for the Corpus so bad, and Slash. Because of that, you cant expect to do a whole bunch of damage to them, but it could be argued that each faction has that weakness. Keep in mind that "what is good for the goose is good for the gander", and that your Shadows have the very same defenses. Looking at that, I would suggest look for Grineer that have alternative abilities, or look at Bombards. My main targets when using SOTD against Grineer, are those with abilities that will throw off enemies. I have been known to troll Grineer by using an all Roller squad, which lost it's novelty with the advent of Steel Meridian. It was great while it lasted, even though they all acted like idiots and wandered aimlessly, and was like bowling with the mentally deficient (and Steel Meridians arent very different). Hellions make a great squad of Shadows as well, having airborn armored a-holes dropping missiles on everybody. Mostly though, focus on Bombards, Flameblades, Powerfists, and Heavy Gunners. If you cant find any, grab a few Scorch's for the DOT, or Shield Lancers, who will last much longer due to the Shields.

 

SOTD and the Corpus: Look. Unless you are soloing, NEVER kill a standard crewman. You are wasting a slot in your Shadow Ranks. Terrify him, and let your pals take care of them. The Corpus have a lot of special effects, like crowd control, or team buffs, and with Nekros, you absolutely must take advantage of it. Well...you dont have to, but he becomes incredibly powerful in this way. I focus on Ospreys to buff my shadows, litter the field with mines, or to drain the shields of more powerful enemies via Leech Osprey, but they are really hard to come by. Once I have a couple Osprey, I focus on MOAs for CC, but Anti MOAs are likely the best option, due to their insane shields, which can be recovered with your Ospreys. Fusion MOAs are almost worth it, but the problem with them is the heat damage, but the bonus you get from them is that they come with the ability to call out a second drone, once it's health is low. Keep in mind that, every Nullifier is like a Mobile Frost, capable of deflecting projectiles. Also, take out any Blitz Eximus...or any Eximus for that matter, because "Nekros summons 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 shadow copies of his most recently slain enemies. The copies retain the level and stats of their original selves but will gain 25% / 50% / 75% / 150% damage and 15% / 35% / 65% / 100% health." 

 

SOTD and the Infestation: With the infestation, Nekros is King, and what makes him so beast with them, is you dont need to pay as much attention, because everybody that you need to take out to make an unstoppable squad, all stick out like a sore thumb. Easy: Focus on anything that is an Ancient, anything that glows any color. You can gain all of the horde bonuses that make the Infestation so insanely fiersome. Ancient Healers make you immune to Status Procs, and will last as long as your duration is, because they heal whenever you are damaged. Magnetic resistance is gained from Disruptors. I've been inside a Disruptor aura, while being beaten up by another Disruptor, and the energy damage was negligible, and I've never once been disrupted by one while under the aura. Maybe it's correlation, maybe it's causation. Toxics make you resistant to Toxic damage, but it's kind of pointless to collect them, because you only really need resistance to Toxic, when you are facing a Toxic, which means your Toxic wont be dealing as much damage. Plus, you dont need that resistance if you have a Healer, which will make you immune to Procs. The bottom line: With SOTD in an Infestation level, you will see exactly why the Infestations Horde Bonuses are so strong.

 

Philosophy: With Nekros, you should take the proverb "Know thy enemy" seriously. If you do, you will be a great Nekros. SOTD is wasted if you are just killing anybody you come across.

 

LOADOUT

 

 Build: 

 

 

Corrosive Projection would be good for an aura. He can produce enough energy with Desecrate, so Energy Siphon isnt really needed.

Vitality (Max): If you go with shields, make sure to take the first opportunity to get your head checked. ;-) Health is his bread and butter, for the reasons I stated above. Consider this the storage for the battery of his life/powers. 

Streamline (Max): This is all the efficiency that you should need. You are a strong strong Tenno, and I promise you, that you can survive without doing a Desecrate only build for your Warframe Pimp.

Despoil (Max): See the section on Despoil for explanation.

Equilibrium (Max): Because of his ability to spawn Health Orbs.

Intensify (Max): to Terrify more, and summon more Shadows.

Primed Flow (8): Because the ability to spam Soul Punch, and Terrify can still cost a lot.

Primed Continuity (8): I'd say Narrow Minded, if we didnt have a need of at least a little range for Desecrate.

Natural Talent (Max): We have to keep in mind the decomposition rate. 15 seconds for Corpus, 10 for Grineer, and 5 for Infestation, and with that in mind, the late game can be pressing for time, and those health orbs dont Desecrate themselves.

 

Primary:  I'd say something precise, like the Soma/Prime, or maybe a Bow, and if it is a bow, I'd go with the Dread, mainly because you can desecrate every body part for a different piece of loot. 

 

Secondary: For a secondary, I'd say any weapon that has a Syndicate feature. Any weapon can put out damage, but Nekros is vital to the teams survival into the late game, even with the Backpack drop rate being fixed. What we are looking for here, is something that can provide convenience and support to those that are reviving Nekros, and the AOE status effects help a lot. The best would likely be weapons with Sequence, or Justice. Sequence will turn the surrounding enemies against one another, while Justice will blast them off their feet. 

 

Melee: For this, you really want fast hitting slash weapons. I prefer the Orthos Prime, because of how fast some of the animations are. With those animations, when the enemy dies, and you continue to hit him, you can slice him into several pieces while they are on the way to the ground, with lots more to desecrate.

Companion: The Carrier is a must, especially in the late game. If your carrier is gone, just use a revive, because your life is going to be miserable trying to make back the health you lose Desecrating. Carrier is literally what holds Nekros together in this build. It is unfortunate that he has such a grave weakness, but at the same time, it could be perceived as a supercharging feature, because this will immediately fill heath and energy with a single Desecrate, with no work. I would suggest amping up your Sentinel Mods for this.

 

Well, I really hope that I was able to help you guys out. If you guys want to keep a Desecrate only build, wanking loot out of corpses, then by all means, continue to waste the potential of your Nekros, but I really hope that I've shown you that he is more than a means to get other things built. 

 

Until Next time, 

-Fen 

Edited March 15, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I love it. I will comment some more when I can read this more closely.

[Archwizard]

Terrify: This power is one of the best CC in the game, in my opinion, because it doubles in utility. Not only do they flee at a slowed pace

 

Unfortunately, I believe this part is inaccurate. While the Raksa Kubrow's Howl has been known to the clip the wings of many a runner, Terrify's main downside is that it lets them loose at full speed. Even with his 1.1 sprint speed, this can make it difficult to catch evaders who are no longer interested in stopping to shoot you. As a result, this also means it's more difficult to take advantage of the armor debuff.

 

His passive is the power to build an army 20(ish) strong, and you should be wise with this. This means that you need to prioritize your targets. 

 

Part of the problem with how Nekros' abilities function together is the innate paradox of this statement. While it's absolutely true, this also means that you need to hold yourself back from killing the majority of enemy units to make the best of use of his ultimate. To fill your time not playing the game, the devs have - unfortunately - given us Desecrate. Since Desecrate gives us loot, there are a great many players who would prefer that your contribution to the party be spamming the loot button, the long animation time of which making it difficult to build up a "soul cache" at all; sure, there's Natural Talent, but due to the RNG nature of the skill, it just means you'll use your extra time on another cast. It creates a vicious cycle, in which the "pimp" fools himself into believing the Nekros can only contribute Desecrate, and that this is how the Nekros wants to play the game.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Archwizard

[NedTyler]

Can't believe i actually read all that. It feels good to see someone who appreciates nekros. Mine too has been a slave to the so called pimps. He only started fighting his masters on the release of despoil and after the buff. I am still in the process of understanding his true potential (even though I've formaed him 4 times). Keep the the dead flowing tenno. Valar morghulis

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

 

Unfortunately, I believe this part is inaccurate. While the Raksa Kubrow's Howl has been known to the clip the wings of many a runner, Terrify's main downside is that it lets them loose at full speed. Even with his 1.1 sprint speed, this can make it difficult to catch evaders who are no longer interested in stopping to shoot you. As a result, this also means it's more difficult to take advantage of the armor debuff.

 

 

I do apologize for getting that wrong. I apparently was mixing the two of them up. Even at their base speed, it really inst a problem with all of the options for mobility that we have, from the forward flips, to coptoring, to the DAS. Even at their maximum speed, there really is no problem keeping up with them.

 

 

Part of the problem with how Nekros' abilities function together is the innate paradox of this statement. While it's absolutely true, this also means that you need to hold yourself back from killing the majority of enemy units to make the best of use of his ultimate. To fill your time not playing the game, the devs have - unfortunately - given us Desecrate. Since Desecrate gives us loot, there are a great many players who would prefer that your contribution to the party be spamming the loot button, the long animation time of which making it difficult to build up a "soul cache" at all; sure, there's Natural Talent, but due to the RNG nature of the skill, it just means you'll use your extra time on another cast. It creates a vicious cycle, in which the "pimp" fools himself into believing the Nekros can only contribute Desecrate, and that this is how the Nekros wants to play the game.

 

 

I dont find that it is a problem holding back from killing. He is, after all, a support frame, and there is a lot of different ways to keep him relevant, aside from killing. When I play, I desecrate while pivoting my camera looking for priority targets, or crowds of enemies. This was difficult, because you kind of have to train yourself to not look at the blooming loot field, and instead look for people worth killing. If I see a crowd of enemies, I Terrify them. If a squadmate is about to go down, or they already have, I spam it twice to make sure I got everybody, then I revive/move on. I SP the most powerful enemies to ragdoll them, as a means of keeping them from using their attacks on my crew, while I take them out. I'd say SP is nearly as effective as Sonic Boom in this respect.

 

All that to say: The main problem we have here is imagination. People that run purely desecrate spamming builds just do not have the imagination to use Nekros, and literally have to train themselves to get over it. It doesnt help that the Pimps are out there. I used to run a Rage Build on mine, which was equally survivable, but was more of a High-Risk-High-Reward playstyle, and when I shared it on a forum asking about making a Nekros with Survivability, all that people really had to say was along the lines of "Why not Desecrate Build? I bet you &!$$ off your squad as Nekros. I wouldnt tolerate that bs." as if it wasnt entirely contrary to the OPs question. Even when asked "How can I build him differently?" much of the community cant compute that this may not include a Desecrate only Build.

Can't believe i actually read all that. It feels good to see someone who appreciates nekros. Mine too has been a slave to the so called pimps. He only started fighting his masters on the release of despoil and after the buff. I am still in the process of understanding his true potential (even though I've formaed him 4 times). Keep the the dead flowing tenno. Valar morghulis

Much Appreciated Tenno!

Edited March 15, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[Noble_Cactus]

 

All that to say: The main problem we have here is imagination. People that run purely desecrate spamming builds just do not have the imagination to use Nekros, and literally have to train themselves to get over it. It doesnt help that the Pimps are out there. I used to run a Rage Build on mine, which was equally survivable, but was more of a High-Risk-High-Reward playstyle, and when I shared it on a forum asking about making a Nekros with Survivability, all that people really had to say was along the lines of "Why not Desecrate Build? I bet you &!$$ off your squad as Nekros. I wouldnt tolerate that bs." as if it wasnt entirely contrary to the OPs question. Even when asked "How can I build him differently?" much of the community cant compute that this may not include a Desecrate only Build.

 

Well, there's also the fact that if you want a frame with AoE disables and stuns, there are far better options to pick. Like Vauban. Banshee. Nyx. Etc. So people go for Desecrate builds, since that's the one unique thing Nekros offers to a team (I don't know what Pilfering Swarm is like, but considering it's a high-cost ultimate with a long duration, I assume it's not nearly as good for rerolling drop tables as Desecrate).

 

What's amusing about the Pimp situation is that you don't absolutely need Nekros for long survivals. He just makes the job a bit easier.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Well, there's also the fact that if you want a frame with AoE disables and stuns, there are far better options to pick. Like Vauban. Banshee. Nyx. Etc. So people go for Desecrate builds, since that's the one unique thing Nekros offers to a team (I don't know what Pilfering Swarm is like, but considering it's a high-cost ultimate with a long duration, I assume it's not nearly as good for rerolling drop tables as Desecrate).

 

What's amusing about the Pimp situation is that you don't absolutely need Nekros for long survivals. He just makes the job a bit easier.

 

Personally, I've always found such an argument lacking. Trying to make any frame perform as another will always waste potential for a frame.

 

Vauban, Banshee, and Nyx cant provide the buffs that Nekros can with SOTD, in addition to that kind of CC.

 

Banshee: Banshee can do great CC, but it comes with drawbacks that Nekros doesn't suffer. 

 

Sonic Boom and Soul Punch serve much the same purpose, and while Sonic Boom has a much wider range, it doesn't have nearly as long of a range. SP is much more spammable (I've cast three in a little over a second), doesn't interrupt reloads, and doesn't force him to stop moving the way Sonic Boom does. Still, to compare them is silly, because they serve different purposes. SP is a long distance precision attack, while SB is a close range AOE attack.

 

Silence is great, and staggers enemies, but cant be recast to renew the stagger until the duration is overwith, and personally, I'd say Terrify would serve the same purpose, only it is spammable.

 

Sound Quake is fantastic, but I'd take Terrify over Sound Quake any day. With Terrify, the enemies continue to move along without disturbing you, while Sound Quake ties you up, you dont have that luxury. In essence, Sound Quake is active CC that leaves you as unable to contribute as a Desecrate build, while Terrify is passive CC that leaves you free to do what must be done.

 

Vauban: He is CC king. No argument here. Everything he does is just as spammable as Nekros's Terrify. I would still argue that Nekros has the following in support of him above Vauban: 1) Nekros can buff the team with SOTD, and 2) Nekros can debuff the enemies. In addition, if Vauban is left without energy, he is fairly well screwed, while Nekros can recover quickly by summoning orbs from a different power source, using Despoil.

 

Nyx: Chaos is extremely handy and all, but it doesn't stop enemies from attacking you, you do not gain any buffs from the enemies that you have pit against one another, and you cannot recast it like you can Terrify, nor does it provide a debuff.

 

Mind Control is literally 1/2 of the weakest Power Strength manifestation of SOTD, but I guess you do get any buffs the Mind Control target provides. Mind Freak will help, but it still wont make your Mind Control target as beneficial as the most negative Power Strength Shadows. 

 

Aside from Chaos and Mind Control, what other CC does she really have?

 

The Problem: I think we all get how much I am playing down other Warframes here, but the point of it is that anybody, who says "Other Frames can do it better" is doing exactly the same. They are playing down the strengths, which is, as I emphasize in the OP, a result of the lack of imagination when playing Nekros. 

 

Survival: After they fixed the Life Support Drops, Nekros is no longer a necessity, true, but considering you are still covering the battlefield with health and some loot, which no longer has to harm your ability to Terrify, Punch Souls, or Resurrect the dead, it's a pretty good power. Oh yeah...and he happens to litter the field with additional Life Support; no big deal. Sure, he is no longer a necessity, but he sure as hell makes late game survivals simple. Some guys in my alliance have run three hours in T4, due to him, and a few other neat tricks.

 

The Solution: Use your imagination. If I say "Nyx sucks bc she cant reduce enemy armor the way Nekros can" I am looking at Nyx entirely wrong. If I say "Vauban cant provide horde buffs the way Nekros can" I am looking at Vauban entirely wrong. If I say "Banshee can't knockdown targets as far as Nekros can" I am DEFINITELY looking at Banshee ENTIRELY wrong. My suggestion: look at what he can do. I guarantee you, that if your attitude is "others can do it better", then you are wasting any frame that you assume falls short.

[Noble_Cactus]

For the record, I'm fully aware that you don't have to build Nekros for Desecrate. I'm just explaining the rationale behind players who do so, and why it's not entirely unfounded.

 

Look at it this way. It's not the amount of CC a frame has to offer. It's the kind of CC the frame offers. All of the frames you listed have reliable, consistent, mostly-dependable disables. What does Nekros have?

 

Soul Punch, which knocks a single enemy over and away from you and your team (plus whatever unlucky saps get caught in the bowling ball effect). Decent, but nothing remarkable.

 

Terrify, which scatters mobs away from your  group, which means that your team has a harder time killing said mobs, which in turn means less air for your team in Survival and longer waves in Defense. At best, it's an emergency button. The armor reduction is trivial when your team should be bringing Corrosive Projections to missions that have armored enemies. This will always be the case until DE addresses this game's armor scaling issues and how players circumvent them.

 

Shadows, which is still unreliable after its recent fixes. Enemies still sometimes hide behind objects and fail to hold aggro when you need them to hold aggro. It's great that you and your teammates can run through them now, but afaik they still block your gunfire. Which is a big no-no for when you want to kill whatever your meatshields are beating up. They also don't follow you around very well.

 

The bottom line is that Nekro's CC skills are passable, and they may even save your hide in clutch situations. But they're not the reason you bring him to a team. His skills don't let you creatively adapt to the situation at hand like those other frames' skills (unless, of course, your shadows actually manage to hold off a pack of mobs; enemies can still attack you like they do when afflicted with Chaos, but if they're not focused on a shadow, then they're still aggroed onto you). In fact, two of them can actually hinder his team's rhythm, and one of them is sometimes more of a nuisance than anything. So what do you bring him to a team for? Rerolling the loot tables for ammo/energy/health, like you said. It's his outstanding feature. The other skills complement Desecrate, and his playstyle is still rather dull as a result.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

I've seen all of these arguments before, and again, you are depicting him in a way that lacks any imagination.

 

Foot Speed: Enemy foot speed is not increased, at all, by Terrify, so you are not dealing with anybody that is any faster than you normally deal with. This is why I include a full loadout in these reviews, because for their running away to pose a problem, you'd have to have no ranged weapons equipped, and you'd have to have...I dunno...a Spoiled Strike Scindo as your only weapon. If standard enemy foot speed is a problem for you, then you may want to lay off using Nova. In the meantime, when they are running away from you, simply gun them down. 

 

Aggro: You really believe that his shadows do not hold aggro? "If they're not focused on a shadow, then they're still aggroed onto you". Well, sure. And if you are doing a Desecrate Build, and you can only call out 2 Shadows, this may actually be an issue. If you aren't modding to please your WF Pimp, then you will be able to call out enough shadows to hold Aggro.

 

Auras/Armor Debuff: I've seen the argument that everybody needs Corrosive Projection, and sure, Terrify's Debuff is made Trivial by the presence of that defense. Still, to say that everybody should have it equipped automatically is really unfair. First off, there are a lot of Frames that will lose out by using the Naramon polarity, when they have a Madurai naturally. This is typical Warframe Pimp mentality, that everybody has to come equipped with something that solely serves others in a way that may not really benefit the individual. Sorry, but if I'm paired with a Valkyr, and she foregoes Steel Charge, and the 18 drain it provides, so that she gets five or six instead from a mismatched Naramon, I'm going to wonder wth she is doing. Likewise, if I ever see a Banshee that doesn't have Rifle Amp, I will seriously question why these people are modding in a way that is so contrary to their Frame. At the end of the day, the argument that Terrify should automatically be modded out of business is flat out wrong, and this goes even with 3/4x Corrosive projection, due to the versatility of the power, in that it affects a large number of  enemies with valuable CC, and that it is spammable.

 

Dependability: For a frame that benefits well from prioritizing targets, Soul Punch is entirely dependable, in that it singles out a target, with the possibility of carving a path. Terrify scatters the crowd, freeing you up to take down a Priority Target. For it's purpose, it works. You are trying to repurpose him to do what other frames do. I don't use SP for the same purpose that I would use SB, so to say that SB is more reliable is poppycock. I also feel the need to repeat myself in that the range on SP is incredibly far, and incredibly spammable, and can be done without interrupting anything, much to the chagrin of SB. 

 

Purpose: When I am trying solely to provide CC, I may consider the other three you mentioned, but when I am playing with the purpose of providing a sustainable source of health, life support, and buffs for my team, I'll consider Nekros. The complaints I see on this thread, and every other, about Nekros are usually people that dont want to play Nekros. They want to play some other frame, and since Nekros doesn't play like those other frames, surely there is something wrong with him. In other words, "It's gotta be the shoes"...because of course it could never be the wearer. I dont wear cleats to play Basketball, and I dont wear sandals when playing football. This game is not a one-size-fits-all game, and it would benefit everybody to get over it, and realize that. Allow me to reiterate my last response: saying that Frame A is better than Frame B, simply because Frame B does different things than Frame A, is silly, and flat out wrong. If that were legitimate logic, then it could be argued that Frame A is the one that sucks because it doesnt do what Frame B can, and at the heart of it, it is a fallacious argument. A similar fallacious argument that I've seen in spades is "Ash sucks because he is just a Loki with less Duration", which discounts the CC of Smoke Shadow, Ash's high health, better methods of alternate mobility, his ability to do Finishers nearly at will, and powers that actually do damage. Another instance is Ember, and the majority of the complaints for her is that Fire Blast isnt Electric Shield, or Snow Globe, in that it neither stops bullets, nor does it add fire damage to her ranged attacks. 

 

Solution: Stop what you are doing. Stop rating Frames solely on what you wish was more like a different frames, and you will be better able to see their value. Instead of deciding "Nekros cant use Sonic Boom", ask yourself how you can use his powers instead. Stop using other frames as a standard by which you measure other frames, and use your imagination instead.

Edited March 16, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[as3mbus]

First thing to do : change ppl mindset about nekros for pimp.

Well i would hope desecrate do more things than adding more loot. Like small cc or things. . .

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

First thing to do : change ppl mindset about nekros for pimp.

Well i would hope desecrate do more things than adding more loot. Like small cc or things. . .

 

Did you read the section on Desecrate and Despoil? 

 

EDIT: To simplify, Desecrate is a future investment. The ground is littered with health for teams that don't have a Trinity, or Oberon. It is also the only thing that makes the possibility of more Life Support a Reality. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[AlphaHorseman]

If (hopefully when he gets his rework/buff since I hope it's gonna be a thing (recent debut in Hot Topics is my reasoning)) Frost gets changed, could you do him too?

 

I like the reviews of the Frames, by the way, they are very interesting reads. Please continue your work!

[Noble_Cactus]

 

Solution: Stop what you are doing. Stop rating Frames solely on what you wish was more like a different frames, and you will be better able to see their value. Instead of deciding "Nekros cant use Sonic Boom", ask yourself how you can use his powers instead. Stop using other frames as a standard by which you measure other frames, and use your imagination instead.

 

To be fair, this game is pretty well balanced for a grindfest RPG, despite all of its other issues. I'm not going to get mad if you're not Desecrating around the clock. In fact, I'd actually find it kind of amusing, and interesting to boot. Still, you do eventually have to realize that some frames just aren't as suited for certain roles as others, no matter how creatively you use them.

 

Foot Speed: Enemy foot speed is not increased, at all, by Terrify, so you are not dealing with anybody that is any faster than you normally deal with. This is why I include a full loadout in these reviews, because for their running away to pose a problem, you'd have to have no ranged weapons equipped, and you'd have to have...I dunno...a Spoiled Strike Scindo as your only weapon. If standard enemy foot speed is a problem for you, then you may want to lay off using Nova. In the meantime, when they are running away from you, simply gun them down.

 

Hmm, perhaps I'm wrong on the footspeed. I could have sworn those buggers move faster when they're terrified. In any case, I will concede it definitely is better after the target cap/recast buff, since the ability's old problem was that you'd have mobs slipping through other mobs that didn't get feared. Still, I'd rather my disabled enemies stay near me than go trotting into another room where I can't kill them, unless I absolutely need the breathing room.

 

 

 

Aggro: You really believe that his shadows do not hold aggro? "If they're not focused on a shadow, then they're still aggroed onto you". Well, sure. And if you are doing a Desecrate Build, and you can only call out 2 Shadows, this may actually be an issue. If you aren't modding to please your WF Pimp, then you will be able to call out enough shadows to hold Aggro.

 

I never said that they don't hold aggro. I said that they sometimes fail to hold aggro, or that they hide behind boxes, and that I don't like this unreliability. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

Only call out two shadows? If you maximize range, sure, but you don't absolutely need to max out range for a Desecrate build if your team is staying close together like they should be.

 

 

 

Auras/Armor Debuff: I've seen the argument that everybody needs Corrosive Projection, and sure, Terrify's Debuff is made Trivial by the presence of that defense. Still, to say that everybody should have it equipped automatically is really unfair. First off, there are a lot of Frames that will lose out by using the Naramon polarity, when they have a Madurai naturally. This is typical Warframe Pimp mentality, that everybody has to come equipped with something that solely serves others in a way that may not really benefit the individual. Sorry, but if I'm paired with a Valkyr, and she foregoes Steel Charge, and the 18 drain it provides, so that she gets five or six instead from a mismatched Naramon, I'm going to wonder wth she is doing. Likewise, if I ever see a Banshee that doesn't have Rifle Amp, I will seriously question why these people are modding in a way that is so contrary to their Frame. At the end of the day, the argument that Terrify should automatically be modded out of business is flat out wrong, and this goes even with 3/4x Corrosive projection, due to the versatility of the power, in that it affects a large number of  enemies with valuable CC, and that it is spammable.

 

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here, other than that you're fine with people in your squad running sub-optimal builds. Banshees don't use Rifle Amp because it has been mathematically proven to provide a negligible increase in damage compared to a Corrosive Projection. Same with Steel Charge. That Valkyr would obviously forma his/her Valkyr as many times as is needed to make up for those lost points so he/she can run a CP. Unless there's some new math out that I don't know about that proves Steel Charge and Rifle Amp are superior options to Corrosive Projection, then all I can say about this paragraph is that your logic is completely backwards in terms of what's best for a team.

 

If all you have to say is that people should be free to run whatever they want, then say it. I'd agree with you. But I wouldn't agree that it's optimal, which is the context of this paragraph.

 

 

 

Dependability: For a frame that benefits well from prioritizing targets, Soul Punch is entirely dependable, in that it singles out a target, with the possibility of carving a path. Terrify scatters the crowd, freeing you up to take down a Priority Target. For it's purpose, it works. You are trying to repurpose him to do what other frames do. I don't use SP for the same purpose that I would use SB, so to say that SB is more reliable is poppycock. I also feel the need to repeat myself in that the range on SP is incredibly far, and incredibly spammable, and can be done without interrupting anything, much to the chagrin of SB.

 

I'd prefer that priority target to not be running away from me into the next room, but that's just me. Before you whip out the imagination card, I have seen that happen. Plenty of times. Soul Punch is passable but nothing amazing. I think it's fine where it currently is. You've also brought up Sonic Boom in several posts. Where did I say anywhere that it should be compared to Sonic Boom? Nowhere. You're putting words in my mouth again.

 

 

 

Purpose: When I am trying solely to provide CC, I may consider the other three you mentioned, but when I am playing with the purpose of providing a sustainable source of health, life support, and buffs for my team, I'll consider Nekros. The complaints I see on this thread, and every other, about Nekros are usually people that dont want to play Nekros. They want to play some other frame, and since Nekros doesn't play like those other frames, surely there is something wrong with him. In other words, "It's gotta be the shoes"...because of course it could never be the wearer. I dont wear cleats to play Basketball, and I dont wear sandals when playing football. This game is not a one-size-fits-all game, and it would benefit everybody to get over it, and realize that. Allow me to reiterate my last response: saying that Frame A is better than Frame B, simply because Frame B does different things than Frame A, is silly, and flat out wrong. If that were legitimate logic, then it could be argued that Frame A is the one that sucks because it doesnt do what Frame B can, and at the heart of it, it is a fallacious argument. A similar fallacious argument that I've seen in spades is "Ash sucks because he is just a Loki with less Duration", which discounts the CC of Smoke Shadow, Ash's high health, better methods of alternate mobility, his ability to do Finishers nearly at will, and powers that actually do damage. Another instance is Ember, and the majority of the complaints for her is that Fire Blast isnt Electric Shield, or Snow Globe, in that it neither stops bullets, nor does it add fire damage to her ranged attacks.

 

 

What a load of prattle. I play frames I want to as well. I understand Nekros' non-Desecrate abilities are decent, and that I acknowledge that he doesn't have to build specifically for it. Which is what I said before.

 

To be honest, it sounds like we're just arguing the same thing here. Because for the most part, I agree with you. Heck, my original post mostly did agree with you. I appreciate your dedication to the frame, but it also doesn't put you in the Pimp mindset to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, Nekros' CC isn't quite up to snuff with the other frames. But he does make up for it with that boring Desecrate job.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

To be fair, this game is pretty well balanced for a grindfest RPG, despite all of its other issues. I'm not going to get mad if you're not Desecrating around the clock. In fact, I'd actually find it kind of amusing, and interesting to boot. Still, you do eventually have to realize that some frames just aren't as suited for certain roles as others, no matter how creatively you use them.

 

+

 

What a load of prattle. I play frames I want to as well. I understand Nekros' non-Desecrate abilities are decent, and that I acknowledge that he doesn't have to build specifically for it. Which is what I said before.

 

To be honest, it sounds like we're just arguing the same thing here. Because for the most part, I agree with you. Heck, my original post mostly did agree with you. I appreciate your dedication to the frame, but it also doesn't put you in the Pimp mindset to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, Nekros' CC isn't quite up to snuff with the other frames. But he does make up for it with that boring Desecrate job.

 

I do agree that we are saying similar things. We may take different avenues to get there, but I find that it severely hurts ones ability with a frame when it's measuring stick isnt it's own ability.

 

I'd prefer that priority target to not be running away from me into the next room, but that's just me. Before you whip out the imagination card, I have seen that happen. Plenty of times. Soul Punch is passable but nothing amazing. I think it's fine where it currently is. You've also brought up Sonic Boom in several posts. Where did I say anywhere that it should be compared to Sonic Boom? Nowhere. You're putting words in my mouth again.

 

 

This time, I did not put words in your mouth. I was using the standard you provided. When you directly compare anything on one frame, to a feature of another frame, the relevant topic being CC, then both frames must be examined to see if the claim is really true. You said earlier that other frames have better CC, and Banshee was among them. At that point, I compared the two, and I found that neither was better than the other, because both have different purposes. Do you disagree?

 

I never said that they don't hold aggro. I said that they sometimes fail to hold aggro, or that they hide behind boxes, and that I don't like this unreliability. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

Only call out two shadows? If you maximize range, sure, but you don't absolutely need to max out range for a Desecrate build if your team is staying close together like they should be.

 

 

Please forgive me. I understood that to be what you were saying. I am mistaken. Still, I feel that the aggro he gets when summoning as many as 8 shadows is usually enough to get out of the hot water.

 

As for the Desecrate Build and how close a team stays: The pimps that I refer to, do brow beat people for not maximizing Range, because 1) They see it as Nekros' duty to summon loot on their kills, even if they are two rooms away, and 2) they dont provide the courteous protection that a gentleman pimp would normally provide.

 

Hmm, perhaps I'm wrong on the footspeed. I could have sworn those buggers move faster when they're terrified. In any case, I will concede it definitely is better after the target cap/recast buff, since the ability's old problem was that you'd have mobs slipping through other mobs that didn't get feared. Still, I'd rather my disabled enemies stay near me than go trotting into another room where I can't kill them, unless I absolutely need the breathing room.

 

To be fair, they do run at their full speed, and when they are approaching you normally they dont always move that fast, but their full speed is something that you will be dealing with on a regular basis, especially with Radial Disarm, so maybe that would be a good way to get used to the speed. 

 

Yeah, we definitely are making the same points in some cases.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

If (hopefully when he gets his rework/buff since I hope it's gonna be a thing (recent debut in Hot Topics is my reasoning)) Frost gets changed, could you do him too?

 

I like the reviews of the Frames, by the way, they are very interesting reads. Please continue your work!

 

Definitely, Tenno. I really enjoy writing them, and I would have had more available, but as soon as I make major headway on a review, I find out they are about to buff one. It happened with Ember, and it happened with Nekros. It's definitely frustrating, but I get them out as quickly as I can.

 

If you are interested, I've done Ember, Nekros, Limbo, Saryn, Banshee, Mesa, Mirage, Hydroid, Zephyr, Rhino, Ash, and Mag. I do look forward to doing Frost, but I dont enjoy playing as him very often, for the same reasons many are frustrated with him. If there isnt a buff in a month or two, I will do a review.

Edited March 16, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Power: 150. Thats really all he needs, due to his power set. 

Its 100.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nekros_(Warframe)

Edited March 16, 2015 by 420degreequicksopeswag

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Its 100.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nekros_(Warframe)

 

It's 150 at max rank.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nekros (Warframe)

Edited March 16, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak