Infested 'Ancient Disruptors' removing all energy is too much!

[Swizzlestix]

It's one thing that they're solid to kill and remove your whole shield in one hit, but all your energy too? Doesn't anyone else think this is a bit excessive? I mean, they deal a lot of damage for the time they're alive (they take quite a few hits to kill even when you're many levels above them) and your whole shield just disappears along with that first hit. That I can accept; it's a good insentive to avoid them, especially when you have other infested running around while you're battling it. But to lose all my energy because perhaps I was facing the other direction when one charges me from behind is a little much.

Energy isn't as frivolous throughout the levels as having an enemy this powerful might suggest; often in multiplayer games people get left out due to the rush to just grab all the energy before anyone else gets it. I would even accept a nerf in how much energy a hit consumes; 25 or even 50; but when one of the challenges is to collect 4 energy orbs, and it would take 8 to fill my energy up, to lose all 200 to one mob via one swing just feels a little overwhelming.

Just my two cents, and I'll probably get the typical "I like the difficulty this brings so you are automatically inferior" response but remember not everyone who plays the game is some super-hardcore noscope 360 headshot pro. People are bound to slip up sometime and this seems like some kinda brutal punishment for it, less a slap on the wrists than chopping one's hands off.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Swizzlestix

[Ryme]

You can dodge the attack and also stunlock them with your melee charge. They are not a big threat unless you are trying to run away from them. The poison Ancients that damage you through shields are more of a threat.

[coupdegrac3]

srs, did someone ever died to an infested?

this guys are easy as hell. i did missions on pluto with level ~14 thats just wrong ....

[Casval_Rouge]

The problem is that the only real threat from infestations is the distruptor, it just does all the harm. I don't think it is overpowered, but it shouldn't be the only threatening one either. Removing the energy deplete effect, give it to a new anicent that sucks energy passively, once it stores enough, it goes frenzy with non stop charging. Bam, perfect fix IMO =D

[Katakuna]

I admit, I've had my fair share of moments where a disruptor snuck up on me and backstabbed me like that, going from hero to zero in a matter of seconds. However, I always took it as a sign that I wasn't paying enough attention to my surroundings, and the game punishing me tenfold for it.

Some people might think the game is the one at fault, but I guess I'm one of those who take it as a warning to step up my act. *shrug*

[Ronyn]

Disrupters should make us UNABLE to use our powers for a set amount of time.

Not actually take out energy away.

Actually stealing energy in this game while energy is such a heated topic is a bad idea.

[Deadros]

The problem is that the only real threat from infestations is the distruptor, it just does all the harm. I don't think it is overpowered, but it shouldn't be the only threatening one either. Removing the energy deplete effect, give it to a new anicent that sucks energy passively, once it stores enough, it goes frenzy with non stop charging. Bam, perfect fix IMO =D

If they change the disruptor, which imo is fine atm, I approve of this way of doing this. You should fear enemies and enemies should be annoying. In my opinion a buff to the disruptors would be even better. It's nice facing an enemy so fierce where sometimes you are forced to consider avoiding them and killing them feels like achieving something.

But I can understand that the current encounter can be a step too far, Regards to OP. But it's tricky to balance anything so that both spectrums of players can get enjoyment out of it, perhaps modify certain behaviours according to level or number of opponents?

Don't loose sleep over it though DE team, honestly your doing a great job soo far.

[KGeddon]

You can dodge the attack and also stunlock them with your melee charge. They are not a big threat unless you are trying to run away from them. The poison Ancients that damage you through shields are more of a threat.

You can also stunlock with bullets. Not sure if it's a damage threshold, or critical strikes that are doing it, but at a certain point elites will be knocked out of special actions or start flinch/stun animations(normal mobs just die, so I can't really tell if they're stunned)

[Deadros]

Actually stealing energy in this game while energy is such a heated topic is a bad idea.

I would like to politely disagree, when playing with a 'proper' team (which is not that hard to find). And varying classes each player tends to get the fair share of energy from what I've experienced. Another factor is that Trinity is an available warframe to counter energy and health loss which is the two most vital resources in a match. I understand that a lot of people don't have Trinity yet due to it taking time to farm.

So even though the energy system is a heated topic, with regards to the means that they have provided (even though not fully grown and effective yet) to getting a team a wealth of energy it's not unfair for them to start implementing minor ways to handicap a player by minimising one of the main resources, and in all fairness other than using an ability it is the only current way that a player can lose energy.

I don't think it should be an untouched resource. But thats where I agree more with Casval_Rouge, instead of losing 100% energy, make it 50% over time and add a mechanic of a beserk when dot completes.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Deadros

[Ronyn]

I would like to politely disagree, when playing with a 'proper' team (which is not that hard to find). And varying classes each player tends to get the fair share of energy from what I've experienced. Another factor is that Trinity is an available warframe to counter energy and health loss which is the two most vital resources in a match. I understand that a lot of people don't have Trinity yet due to it taking time to farm.

So even though the energy system is a heated topic, with regards to the means that they have provided (even though not fully grown and effective yet) to getting a team a wealth of energy it's not unfair for them to start implementing minor ways to handicap a player by minimising one of the main resources, and in all fairness other than using an ability it is the only current way that a player can lose energy.

I don't think it should be an untouched resource. But thats where I agree more with Casval_Rouge, instead of losing 100% energy, make it 50% over time and add a mechanic of a beserk when dot completes.

I appreciate what youre saying.

and kudos to your polite tone my freind!

My argument is not that we shouldnt have energy syphoning enemies...

my argument is that right now, with such a wild difference in experiances revolving around energy, it isnt the right time for such a penalty.

DE said the energy system needs to adressed, Id say that until its been sorted out we shouldnt have enemies that can muck it up.

Of course that is just my way of hanlding it. lol

You can also stunlock with bullets. Not sure if it's a damage threshold, or critical strikes that are doing it, but at a certain point elites will be knocked out of special actions or start flinch/stun animations(normal mobs just die, so I can't really tell if they're stunned)

Only time they get me is when I'm napping. lol

despite that I think its not the right time for it.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Ronyn

[Swizzlestix]

If they change the disruptor, which imo is fine atm, I approve of this way of doing this. You should fear enemies and enemies should be annoying. In my opinion a buff to the disruptors would be even better. It's nice facing an enemy so fierce where sometimes you are forced to consider avoiding them and killing them feels like achieving something.

But I can understand that the current encounter can be a step too far, Regards to OP. But it's tricky to balance anything so that both spectrums of players can get enjoyment out of it, perhaps modify certain behaviours according to level or number of opponents?

Don't loose sleep over it though DE team, honestly your doing a great job soo far.

I agree with this guy on so many levels.

I want to restate I'm not against the idea of losing energy at all. It sounds like a good game mechanic and an excellent way to avoid the usual tactic of just charging into battle like multiplayer games seem to be about thus far. My gripe with it is about losing absolutely every drop of energy in a split second and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it if you haven't managed to avoid the attack.

I suppose I'm just biased; I play Loki, and while all of my abilities are purely supportive, since I don't have the ability to simply press 4 to kill practically everything else, I have to depend on my energy to get me out of sticky situations. Sometimes all I'd need is 25 energy to drop a decoy and leg it out of the hotspot to rethink my tactics. The problem is, this boss leaves you with absolutely nothing after he hits you. Don't get me wrong, I have yet to die to these guys; I've found the poisonous variant to be much more of a threat since poison ignores shields. I'm simply thinking of it from a tactical perspective. Why remove the ability to tacticise an effective retreat strategy based on one mob?

I'm all for the idea of an energy drain though, much like the Corpus Ospreys that drop shield leeches on you. You at least have the ability to roll them off. It'd be nice to have the ability to kill the Disruptor before it stole all your energy. Gives you insentive to a) focus and kill it quickly, or b) get the F*** away from it.

Balancing sounds like something this game could use, what with only a small portion of mobs at current able to stop a team from just steamrolling through a mission. The Grineer seem far more effective at this, however. Corpus projectiles are pretty easy to avoid what with their slow projectile velocity, though they make up for it with Shield Ospreys and Shockwave Moas that seem able to stunlock players against walls by alternating shockwaves, and not giving players a chance to escape. The only real underwhelming force so far really seems to be the Infested; although a bit of backpedalling seems necessary for the exploding units, and a lot of focus fire is needed for the Ancients, there really isn't much to killing these guys.

All indication already points towards the devs making huge progress in this area however. I'm looking forward to a really polished release version, and I don't mean to put these developers down at all by stating these suggestions; I'd just rather make my input towards what I think could help improve the game, as a first-hand source to how the game plays out!

[Kirbuncle]

I have a problem with this particular enemy type. The challenge they provide isn't the issue - I can put them down with a volley of bolts, and I know to keep them hitstunned with my sword if they close the distance. The problem I see is that they possess a disproportionate amount of combat ability compared to the rest of the enemy types in their faction. Their close relatives - the Toxic and Healer variants - don't possess this much versatility (though the Toxic Ancient is arguably more dangerous, depending on your frame/mod setup).

We all know this stuff, but let's just tally up what they all do anyway, for the sake of comparison:

The Toxic emits poison that penetrates shields in a small AOE should it close in.

The Healer intermittently heals nearby friendlies. (I don't think it heals itself, could be wrong)

The Disruptors? They knock out your shields in one go. That's bad enough if there's a bunch of Infested bearing down on you, since the attack invariably leaves you stunned for a few moments and wide-open to follow-up attacks - they also leech every last drop of energy you may have acquired.

I understand why both of these effects are in place - this is the foe that's intended to shut down all of your options should you take the hit - you're left stunned, shieldless, and powerless before the mob that's undoubtedly bearing down on you, since these things are rarely found by themselves - but in comparison to the other "elite" enemy types fielded by the Infested, it's disproportionately powerful and this sets it somewhat apart from the others in it's category.

However, if that was intentional, and Disruptors are actually meant to stand above the rest of the Infested enemy types, then I retract my argument, and instead pose another - why are Grineer Commanders no more powerful than Gunners, Bombarders, and Napalmers (their Switch Teleport is, at best, a nuisance)? And why do the Corpus not have a similar "cream of the crop" unit?

Overall, I'd recommend either dividing the abilities of the Disruptor into a seperate enemy type, as suggested earlier in the thread, or granting Commanders additional combat competence and giving the Corpus a top-tier unit of their own, to round out each faction with their own best-of-the-best troops, bosses notwithstanding.

[Swizzlestix]

-snip-

I'd have thought the Shockwave Moa would probably be considered the Corpus' elite unit, though as you duly noted, these units are still vastly underwhelming as you can literally just jump over the slow-moving orange ring to avoid it.

The problem I find with disproportionately powerful mobs such as the Disruptor, is that they simply become the Infested missions' dependent difficulty. Why throw more one-shot mobs for the players to mow down when you can just increase the frequency of Disruptors? That's when the level becomes about Disruptors more than the infested as a whole and is not how I'd prefer these missions to play out.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Swizzlestix

[Sherbniz]

You can dodge the attack and also stunlock them with your melee charge.

In my experience, dodging is not an option, the ability pretty much homes in on you.

It even hits you as you are invisible with Loki.

Some of them targetet me well after I activated the ability... so there's that.