Daggers Are Terrible Stealth Weapons And Should Be Changed

[MJ12]

Right now due to how stealth attack damage works, daggers are some of the worst stealth attack weapons in the game (while high-charge damage non-heavy weapons like the dual heat swords are the best).

 

This is honestly weird. Daggers should be the stealth weapon. Do you see Sam Fisher with dual swords? No, he uses a knife. Does Ezio use a giant sword? He uses a hidden wrist-dagger. Does Altair? Nope.

 

I suggest that daggers have a 'free' double (or even triple) stealth attack bonus.

[CY13ERPUNK]

personally i think the stealth attack animation should just kill the target outright, period

 

but if that is difficult to code ingame then the stealth attack should do like 10x the weapons base/charge damage with 100% chance to double crit and get a +666% crit damage multiplier

 

whatever it takes for the stealth attack to kill the target

 

otherwise having you sneak up on a target to jump on their back, and insert two foot long blades into their necks just to have then run off afterwards?

 

srsly?

 

the stealth attack at least needs to do more dmg than it currently does, at least

[MetalGerbil]

those people are also not space ninjas.

 

taking examples from other games doesnt win you anything.

 

there are far too many factors to consider when taking a melee weapon to a fight and boosting them for a situational attack that ends up exposing you anyways to further attack where they might not be as good seems silly.

 

also they have stated time and again they dont intend stealth attacks to be some kind of finisher or super high damage attack. they do the damage they do because thats where they want it.

[SpartanChief1170]

personally i think the stealth attack animation should just kill the target outright, period

 

but if that is difficult to code ingame then the stealth attack should do like 10x the weapons base/charge damage with 100% chance to double crit and get a +666% crit damage multiplier

 

whatever it takes for the stealth attack to kill the target

 

otherwise having you sneak up on a target to jump on their back, and insert two foot long blades into their necks just to have then run off afterwards?

 

srsly?

 

the stealth attack at least needs to do more dmg than it currently does, at least

 

insta-killing everything doesn't make for good game play. Also the damage from mods can get you up pretty high and they do effect stealth attacks.

[MJ12]

those people are also not space ninjas.

 

taking examples from other games doesnt win you anything.

 

Those people are actually variously described as ninjas. In Sam Fisher's case it's explicit, he's called a "SIGINT ninja". Daggers and knives are very much the quintessential assassin weapons and should take up that role because right now:

1. Nothing fills that role

2. It would give them a use.

there are far too many factors to consider when taking a melee weapon to a fight and boosting them for a situational attack that ends up exposing you anyways to further attack where they might not be as good seems silly.

Daggers are already generally underpowered. Boosting their stealth attack damage would simply give them a niche, i.e. "a stealth melee weapon" instead of being "a bad melee weapon". 

also they have stated time and again they dont intend stealth attacks to be some kind of finisher or super high damage attack. they do the damage they do because thats where they want it.

So why does a Scindo stealth attack deal 400 damage, more than enough to kill just about anything? Given this why is it so absurd that a dagger stealth attack might do, say, 225 or 300 instead of the ~150? Especially since the dagger is a worse melee weapon than the Scindo? Your argument seems weird.

[MetalGerbil]

you are thinking "game physics from other games" and "real world physics"

 

where in your estimate of stealth dagger damage do you consider a grineers armored suit? how much dagger damage does a deformed mutated infested take? how much damage does a corpus crewman take if he has had his body modified in some way?

 

look, i dont care what you think makes sense for dagger damage because few things in this game are based on real world logic and dynamics. your only case is "i like and want it in the game"

 

other game situations dont matter. they are separate and isolated. where in the story did sam fly to mars to fight cloned space marines?

 

and you know what, that is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for when its a simple request for preference. but you dont want to say that because at which point you might as well say "id like all the menus to be pink". its just your preference with no real backing.

 

daggers serve a purpose that generally revolves around light fast damage. so of course heavier weapons do more burst damage than a light dagger.

 

imagine your are a person carefully creeping up to an unsuspecting individual. much of the reasoning behind stealth attack damage in games is that a unsuspected attack in a vital spot does tons of damage. in real life a claymore will still do more damage than a dagger you just cant sneak around with it.

 

well you can jump out of cloack in this game and crush a mans skull with what is essentially a radiator welded to a pipe. you are in an armored suit that gives you what are basically magical powers. and you are trying to make a case that a dagger will win out on all that?

 

 

its your opinion. it doesnt fit the stated design direction of the development team and it shifts game balance in a direction that doesn't benefit the game.

 

sorry you dont like the fact that i stated something the very dev team thinks when it comes to stealth attacks doing tons of damage.

 

adios.

Edited May 10, 2013 by MetalGerbil

[psyanide]

Insta-killing everything can be tons of fun, provided that you are forced to maintain stealth and not allow any witnesses to reach a control console in order to keep doing it - quickly and quietly disposing of a ship-full of enemies while moving towards an objective? Is this not the very epitome of what us Space Ninjas are meant to be doing?

 

I really like the idea of having (single hand) daggers do a buttload of extra stealth attack damage or giving them an instant kill on stealth attack property (on everything except bosses), maybe even have one of them absorb energy or a temporary movespeed buff on a successful stealth kill. It would give them a niche to fill. While the dual wielded daggers have that blurry fast attack and can do a decent amount of damage (not to mention fun as hell to spam on enemy faces), I feel like the single daggers lack any real use at the moment.

Edited May 10, 2013 by psyanide

[SpartanChief1170]

well you can jump out of cloack in this game and crush a mans skull with what is essentially a radiator welded to a pipe. you are in an armored suit that gives you what are basically magical powers. and you are trying to make a case that a dagger will win out on all that?

ROFL!

 

Insta-killing everything can be tons of fun, provided that you are forced to maintain stealth and not allow any witnesses to reach a control console in order to keep doing it - quickly and quietly disposing of a ship-full of enemies while moving towards an objective? Is this not the very epitome of what us Space Ninjas are meant to be doing?

 

I really like the idea of having (single hand) daggers do a buttload of extra stealth attack damage or giving them an instant kill on stealth attack property (on everything except bosses), maybe even have one of them absorb energy or a temporary movespeed buff on a successful stealth kill. It would give them a niche to fill. While the dual wielded daggers have that blurry fast attack and can do a decent amount of damage (not to mention fun as hell to spam on enemy faces), I feel like the single daggers lack any real use at the moment.

True enough it can be fun, but more so in a game built for it because it has other difficulties to overcome. I agree that the single dagger should have some kind of bonus, and while the previous quote does have a point  (all the armor and modifications of sci fi) remember this is a Space Dagger!!! it can cut through that stuff lol 

[Tsualla]

It's true that dagger have a lower attack damage than other melee weapons and it's one of it's disadvantages when used for direct melee combat (but there are other advantages, too to counter that). I am personally a dagger user, I know what a dagger feels, and can be used to great extent if you know how to mod it but for the low damage, I agree.

 

Now, regarding the stealth attack. I won't comment about the dagger was the ninja's weapon and ninjas do stealth, or it is usually used for stealth and so on, because AFAIK, Tenno is not ninjas (or at least they did not officially describe Tenno in that way verbally, or by in-game text). Then again, I do think that the main problem is that the stealth attack has damage and it is scaled on weapon attack and since stealth attack does not carry bigger consequences with heavier weapon (like the risk of being detected, or slower animation), using a heavy weapon would benefit greatly in stealth attack. But it's not always a good thing as this could imply that somehow the game indirectly "forces" me to use a Scindo if I wanted to do the mission with stealth approach.

 

My suggestion is to make the scaling for stealth attack better and should ignore armour. This would balance the weapon better for stealth attack,and not "forcing" some players to use a particular weapon just because the attack damage is bigger, if they did want stealth approach.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Tsualla