Are Ether Daggers Actually Better Than Dual Ethers?

[Darzk]

For regular attacks against lesser Infested, and Corpus.

 

I've never used them, and I think I might be misunderstanding the wiki page. They seem vastly superior.

 

Its 90 damage every 1.25 seconds (0.8 attack speed = 0.8 attacks per second = 1.25 seconds/attack?) so 72 DPS.

Dual Ethers is 25 dmg every 0.77 seconds, so 32 base DPS

 

Runners and Leapers take 100%, so its more DPS against them for sure. Chargers take 80%, so 57.6, but -1% per level, so at level 36 dps becomes 31.68 dps...

 

So Dual Ethers are only better against Chargers when they're higher then level 36???

 

Actually they'll still deal waaaay more elemental damage...

 

Whole new point;

 

Dealing 225% base damage that is then reduced due to armor will be waaaay more effective than weaker, but armor piercing, damage due to the fact that elemental DPS is based on normal weapon damage before armor reduction, so you'll be dealing 225% elemental damage.

 

"But Dual Ethers will do more damage to an Infested!1!!?" Well...

 

Ether Daggers vs. Dual Ethers against lv 40 Ancient Infested (Modded)

+42% dmg

+60% RoF

+60% Cold

+90% Fire

+90% AP

Ignoring crit as we have no accurate numbers for that;

 

Daggers; 164 Normal DPS, 148 Fire DPS, 148 AP DPS, 98 Cold DPS

Dual Ethers; 89 Normal DPS, 80 Fire DPS, 80 AP DPS, 53 Cold DPS

 

After Armor, Bodyshot-Reduction;

 

Daggers; 15 Normal DPS, 30 Fire DPS, 148 AP DPS, 9 Cold DPS = 202 DPS

Dual Ethers; 89 Normal DPS, 16 Fire DPS, 80 AP DPS, 5 Cold DPS = 190 DPS

 

And it gets better and better for the Daggers as the level drops. Only at level 100+, where fire/cold are immune, does the Ethers catch up;

 

Daggers; 0 Normal + 148 AP = 148 DPS

Dual Ethers; 89 Normal + 80 AP = 169 DPS

 

Should work out as best DPS against Corpus as well.

 

 

TLDR

 

Does http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ether_Daggers say that it deals 72 base DPS (30 dmg x 3, speed of 0.8 so 1 attack every 1.25 seconds)?

Edited May 11, 2013 by Darzk

[MetalGerbil]

dual ethers are better overall.

 

there are alot of weapons that are situationally better than others but dual ethers are more useful in more situations.

 

also dont forget dual ethers have natural armor ignore in their normal attacks as well as charge attack.

 

ether daggers have no armor ignore even with their charge attack. unlike every other weapon in the game.

 

edit: to add, not sure how you are getting your math, too lazy to double check, but my dual ethers outperformed my daggers in every situation, specially with ancients. do you have any actual play to back those up?

Edited May 11, 2013 by MetalGerbil

[Darzk]

I don't, never used the daggers because I bought into the 'no armor ignore = they are bad'.

 

But the wiki says they deal over 2x damage compared to the swords, so even with 50% armor reduction they're gonna do more DPS than the Dual Ethers.

 

Just cant tell if the wiki's right / if I'm understanding it correctly.

[MetalGerbil]

your DPS is off somewhere. ether daggers are slow as molasses when you first get them, while dual ethers are very fast even for being dual.

 

with firerate daggers are still a fraction of what fangs feel like, and way slower than duals with the same mod.

 

actually i think the speed listed is per 30 attack rather than 1 string of 3. every hit of your melee button does 3 attacks, each being 30 damage base. but it does one every 1.25 or some such. not sure about the timing but i know they are slow as all hell.

[Morcant]

My understanding was that daggers don't get the bonus damage to Infested that slashing bladed weapons do. I could be horribly mistaken, however. I haven't used daggers in a long while.

[Darzk]

your DPS is off somewhere. ether daggers are slow as molasses when you first get them, while dual ethers are very fast even for being dual.

 

with firerate daggers are still a fraction of what fangs feel like, and way slower than duals with the same mod.

 

actually i think the speed listed is per 30 attack rather than 1 string of 3. every hit of your melee button does 3 attacks, each being 30 damage base. but it does one every 1.25 or some such. not sure about the timing but i know they are slow as all hell.

I thought it might be one attack per 1.25 seconds instead of a string of three; but that makes the DPS far worse than even the starting Skana, and I don't think that's right either.

 

My understanding was that daggers don't get the bonus damage to Infested that slashing bladed weapons do. I could be horribly mistaken, however. I haven't used daggers in a long while.

Most daggers do not; however the Ether Daggers do. They're classified as a slashing rather than piercing weapon.

[Engelheim]

A problem with calculating DPS is that you don't take into account other factors such as range. Also in this game you won't be using the weapon all the time.

[Kotoso]

Its 90 damage every 1.25 seconds (0.8 attack speed = 0.8 attacks per second = 1.25 seconds/attack?) so 72 DPS.

Dual Ethers is 25 dmg every 0.77 seconds, so 32 base DPS

Rate is a speed modifier to animations of the weapon. This means for example, that a slide attack will be at 80% speed with ether daggers, and 130% speed with dual ethers. So, disregarding the swing animation that hits multiple times, ether daggers are the slowest weapon in the game, not the fastest.

 

The 3x damage bonus is for chargers and leapers, not ancients.

Whole new point;

 

Dealing 225% base damage that is then reduced due to armor will be waaaay more effective than weaker, but armor piercing, damage due to the fact that elemental DPS is based on normal weapon damage before armor reduction, so you'll be dealing 225% elemental damage.

Where does that number come from? They do the same damage. The most effective way to kill ancients should be to knock them over and spam charge attacks to ignore the armor at higher levels, so they should be close in this aspect.

[Darzk]

Rate is a speed modifier to animations of the weapon. This means for example, that a slide attack will be at 80% speed with ether daggers, and 130% speed with dual ethers. So, disregarding the swing animation that hits multiple times, ether daggers are the slowest weapon in the game, not the fastest.

Right. But if I'm attacking at 61% (80%/130%) of the Dual Ethers but hitting 3 times, arent I really attacking a lot faster?

 

The 3x damage bonus is for chargers and leapers, not ancients.

Where does that number come from? They do the same damage. The most effective way to kill ancients should be to knock them over and spam charge attacks to ignore the armor at higher levels, so they should be close in this aspect.

Right, my bad, forgot about the bonus not applying to Ancients. But I factored it in for both weapons, so the result should be comparatively the same.

 

225% came from 72 DPS / 32 DPS, Daggers/Duals.

 

Most charge DPS is about the same, I was comparing against Ancients just as an example. And I guess you could hit them a few times by accident when clearing trash around them.

[Kotoso]

If you really want to make normal attacks work then ether daggers are progably better than most weapons, yes. The normal weapon mod needs a functionality change for it to ever compare with slide attacks, and then needs a major buff to compare with charge attacks.

[rhoenix]

With an AP mod equipped, and Fury, Dual Ether Daggers are flat-out mean.  Yes, they can't hit multiple targets like their bigger siblings can.  However, with the multiple attacks offered, it's very comparable. 

[lilme3333]

90% armor piercing and max fury mods they swing so fast it doesn't even matter it only hits one enemy. I'll still use'em on pluto