Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing: Infinite Melee Slide Attack

[Bakim0n0]

RyanGo:Personally, I felt a little irked when I was running with a rush modded Loki and some Excalibur was wave slashing next to me and moving the same speed if not faster. If wave slashing is the same speed for all frames then it sort of takes away the point of having frames with different speeds. Loki already sacrifices a lot of health and shield in exchange for power and speed.

But if wave slashing does depend on run speed ignore post :/ but I still feel wave slashing is a little silly, even if I might try it myself.

Loki is notably faster when doing these tricks, especially with a rush mod on.

That being said... the *speed* is not why Loki sacrifices so much... his skills are. Invis is an amazing skill and you can get 6-8k charge attack red crits with a scindo on him for 15-20 second stretches + decoy...

It's a lot more than just a speed matter there; Loki is the perfect glass cannon frame.

[Gestalt]

Isn't this a very limited thing, highly dependent on which melee weapon you use, or at least, their swing speed?  

 

I had a TON of fun dashing down slopes or stairs with the Fang with this, as it basically made you fly, but then I moved to the Glaive, and it didn't work as well.  Now I'm leveling my Frago and it's freaking pointless; everytime I accidentally slide slash, I curse under my breath for the lost time I could've spent simply sprinting.

 

Maybe they just need to tweak the code so the distance and speed traveled via slide slash is more standardized and less dependent on the melee weapon swing speed.

[BoswerLK]

who cares, it's mad fun. also opens up some ridiculous new freerun possibilities, like skipping the short elevator on the ship tile with the 3 bridges up top. you can go from bottom to the other bottom side directly with a wallrun boosted jump off a pillar, air slide attack towards the wall into another wallrun boosted jump, into air slide attack spam. things like this is what makes movement so fun and beautiful in this game

 

it's not game breaking op, it takes some skill and timing to perform, it's difficult to control, and it's aesthetically pleasing. I don't understand why anyone's having a problem with this

[Blatantfool]

Remove this, make all the frames move the same speed, make all the melee weapons the same, give them the same stats and abilities and relabel the game "Boreframe"

Problem solved.

 

 I doubt that you actually read what LuxAngel7 or many of these other posters are really talking about if all you took from all this discussion was that.

 

 Sarcasm doesn't suit you in this case.

 

Edit: By the way, I pointed out some of the stuff being talked about in regards to this stuff. I also showed off a few videos of it to DERebecca. I'm not sure what DE's opinion or decision is yet, but they DO know all about it. 

[aliasAnonymous]

Can we as a community embrace the phrase "faster than a speeding brokk"? That's awesome.

 

I do think the slashes have to be capable of being faster than the sprint, because otherwise you would just run up to enemies and charge attack. It would be faster and more lethal to build charge than to build melee.

 

Your solution doesn't work unfortunately. I would just chain slash until the momentum fall off point, then chain flip, air slash, chain slash some more etc. This is why I loathe any fix that comes, it will end up ruining a portion of the game I've come to love.

 

Your second solution doesn't work either TT I would just chain air slash to get places quickly.

 

See how this 'problem' goes to the core of the game?

A maxed Fury Brokk was faster then the un-modded running Rhino it was equipped to, so ya, it is as fast as I'm implying. It is faster then base Rhino. Almost any other weapon outside the heavies is going to be faster then that, so ya. Faster then a speeding Brokk. An un-modded Fragor, not so much. Had momentum problems.

 

The only viable fix I see that keeps this as something you can do is very heavy momentum fall off past the 2nd or 3rd slide. That would have to come before any chance to cancel the animation comes. Or a completely drop of the animation cancel and just lock people into the end of the animation. Like with the Fragor sliding, if you can't keep minimum sliding speeding you get kicked out of it and have to restart fresh, which would in turn break the most insane super speed slashing.

[PeterKha]

Yeah, I don't understand the problem behind it. I mean, it's open up to everyone which means everyone can use it if they take the time to actually practice and learn it so it's not in anyway an abuse.

[xoxcloudxox]

i like being a beyblade and wreaking havoc in maps is good. i disagree here.

Edited May 14, 2013 by xoxcloudxox

[Azjhoolies]

The thing is, it makes even the slowest Warframe much faster. So what's the point in working towards building or cultivating a fast Frame if I can just -FAWOOSH- my way across the map as Rhino or whomever, outrunning every other Frame.

[Luxangel7]

The thing is, it makes even the slowest Warframe much faster. So what's the point in working towards building or cultivating a fast Frame if I can just -FAWOOSH- my way across the map as Rhino or whomever, outrunning every other Frame.

 

Yeah that's part of the problem others and myself outlined. It basically makes all the movement mods and frame base speed advantages useless. I've seen a rhino do this literally from start to end, and rush the level faster than anyone else in the group, and there was a Loki with us too.

[Qynchou]

Never used a macro. What the hell are you on about.

[Luxangel7]

Never used a macro. What the hell are you on about.

 

It's not necessarily about macros, that's just a side issue. The problem is everything else that has been outlined. 

[Qynchou]

Yeah, youre right, It is superfast to do it even though atm Im boosting myself with wall-runs everywhere possible.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Qynchou

[Elizu]

I do this too from time to time when i have to do a very low level mission with a maxed out frame just to get some materials. Dash to the boss, kill, dash back out.

But i would prefer to see another option for fast travelling.

We are " space ninja's"  and ninja's are fast, agile little critters normally :D

So i would love some kind of parcour running option maybe?

Like if we use sprint to run, and we approach something that's knee or hip height. Like some of the smaller object that we auto jump over those low obstacles while we have sprint pressed down. Maybe get a small speed boost from that little -jump or flip- over it?

In my eyes those kind of moves match nicely with the vertical and horizontal wall running.

That might make people use normal sprint running more then this dashing trick too if they run to obstacles to vault over them to get the speed boost rather then dashing-sliding etc all over the place.

 

Eli.

[Urbanspaceman]

those "fast move exploits" wouldnt be nescessary if the warframes were not that damn slow. Take rhino , even with full "Rush" mod, u are so slow u feel like walkin backwards.

 

Agree those exploits suck, but slow warframes as they are atm, is also lame. The only speed mod doesn't hehlp enough here.

[Gestalt]

those "fast move exploits" wouldnt be nescessary if the warframes were not that damn slow. Take rhino , even with full "Rush" mod, u are so slow u feel like walkin backwards.

 

Agree those exploits suck, but slow warframes as they are atm, is also lame. The only speed mod doesn't hehlp enough here.

This is kind of an issue ever since they diversified the warframes. Some people love the differences (read: people who play Loki and Ash), while others think there should've been other, better ways to diversify. IMO the issue comes from the obviousness of speed, as playing a Rhino/Frost is so totally different than playing a fast frame like Loki, while the "tradeoff" of having more hp and armor makes very little difference. Now, if they made the tank frames have way more hp and armor than they currently do, some people might find the slow speed more reasonable, but you're still going to catch flak from those players whose playstyle trivializes survivability.

[XDeathCoreX]

The thing is, it makes even the slowest Warframe much faster. So what's the point in working towards building or cultivating a fast Frame if I can just -FAWOOSH- my way across the map as Rhino or whomever, outrunning every other Frame.

Same logic applies to fast frames, use your brain.

[hiryu64]

While I love using this, it is indeed an exploit. I've thought about how this could actually be patched out. Here is how I would go about fixing this issue if it were up to me:

 

First, sliding currently has no effect on stamina, and moving from a sprint to a slide actually restores stamina. We fix this by making sliding cause the stamina bar to freeze in place. Related to this point, stamina currently begins restoring as soon as the sprint key is released. Place a one-second freeze on stamina restoration upon releasing the sprint key.

 

Next, a dash attack should drain more stamina than it does. As it stands, a dash attack costs less stamina than a standard melee attack. I would expect it to cost at least double. Given the intensity of such an attack, it would make sense for the maneuver to consume more stamina than a standard melee attack. (EDIT: Originally I suggested fully depleting the stamina gauge. As noted below, this is a bit extreme, so I compromised by saying it should consume twice as much as a standard attack.)

 

Well, you may ask, how does this stop anyone from wavedashing if your stamina just replenishes as soon as a dash attack ends? This is where my third proposed fix comes in. Add a cooldown timer once the stamina gauge depletes entirely. For example, once the stamina gauge is completely emptied, there is no recovery for a full five seconds. Once the five seconds passes, the stamina gauge refills instantly.

 

I believe these three fixes would eliminate the wavedashing exploit from gameplay entirely. If you guys have any thoughts, please let me know.

Edited June 1, 2013 by hiryu64

[Cinderain]

While I love using this, it is indeed an exploit. I've thought about how this could actually be patched out. Here is how I would go about fixing this issue if it were up to me:

 

First, sliding currently has no effect on stamina, and moving from a sprint to a slide actually restores stamina. We fix this by making sliding cause the stamina bar to freeze in place. Related to this point, stamina currently begins restoring as soon as the sprint key is released. Place a one-second freeze on stamina restoration upon releasing the sprint key.

 

Next, a dash attack should drain all of your stamina, regardless of how much you have left. As it stands, a dash attack costs less stamina than a standard melee attack. I would expect it to cost at least double. Given the intensity of such an attack, it would make sense for the maneuver to fully deplete the stamina gauge.

 

Well, you may ask, how does this stop anyone from wavedashing if your stamina just replenishes as soon as a dash attack ends? This is where my third proposed fix comes in. Add a cooldown timer once the stamina gauge depletes entirely. For example, once the stamina gauge is completely emptied, there is no recovery for a full five seconds. Once the five seconds passes, the stamina gauge refills instantly.

 

I believe these three fixes would eliminate the wavedashing exploit from gameplay entirely. If you guys have any thoughts, please let me know.

 

This post restored my jimmies.

[shukudai]

The combination of having it completely deplete stamina leading to a 5-second delay in regen would mean the only possible move is to slowly walk away from the mob you just rushed into.  C'mon, think about the ramifications of your ideas before putting them out there.  

 

All I can really say is that you're completely correct in your belief, your three "fixes" would definitely eliminate the exploit entirely.  Nobody would ever want to slide melee ever. :)

[Cinderain]

The combination of having it completely deplete stamina leading to a 5-second delay in regen would mean the only possible move is to slowly walk away from the mob you just rushed into.  C'mon, think about the ramifications of your ideas before putting them out there.  

 

All I can really say is that you're completely correct in your belief, your three "fixes" would definitely eliminate the exploit entirely.  Nobody would ever want to slide melee ever. :)

 

C'mon, give your own idea or improve upon others.

[fishworshipper]

It's very disheartening to see an Unidentified Flying Banshee soar above the ground faster than a @(*()$ Loki.

That all I have to say.

[shukudai]

I've followed your posts through many threads FatalX7, and know well your opinions and inability to be swayed from them.  Nothing I suggest will appease you, just know that I am a strong supporter of emergent techniques, and subsequently, mobility techniques. =]

 

Feel free to watch my videos on Youtube if you haven't already to understand where I'm coming from - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMGussQAqVJdxv_uZ3erKYg/videos

 

peace =]

[hiryu64]

The combination of having it completely deplete stamina leading to a 5-second delay in regen would mean the only possible move is to slowly walk away from the mob you just rushed into.  C'mon, think about the ramifications of your ideas before putting them out there.  

 

All I can really say is that you're completely correct in your belief, your three "fixes" would definitely eliminate the exploit entirely.  Nobody would ever want to slide melee ever. :)

 

Fair enough. Care to offer any alternatives? Here, I'll do your work for you: Instead of fully depleting the gauge, simply have a dash attack consume more stamina than it currently does. Say, double that of a standard melee attack.

 

EDIT: Oh, so you want this exploit to remain in the game, then? I don't see that happening, considering the devs have expressed desire to fix it. This thread is for proposing fixes to the exploit, not defending it.

Edited June 1, 2013 by hiryu64

[shukudai]

Agree, having the slide melee require more stamina than it currently does would be a fair adjustment.

 

I would disagree with the generalised implication that I somehow need to offer an alternative or a better solution though.  The fact that I cannot think of anything better than what currently exists doesn't mean I can't point out why we shouldn't opt for a flawed suggestion.

 

edit: grammar fail.

 

double edit in response to your edit: I'm here to suggest a more level-headed approach to the issue - to balance the technique and embrace it as a legitimate move, rather than eliminating it.  I appreciate people discuss the issue like it's black-or-white, keep it or ditch it, but keeping it in the game doesn't mean keeping it as it is.

 

TL;DR: Calm your farm mate.

Edited June 1, 2013 by shukudai

[hiryu64]

I would disagree with the generalised implication that I somehow need to offer an alternative or a better solution though.  The fact that I cannot think of anything better than what currently exists doesn't mean I can't point out why we shouldn't opt for a flawed suggestion.

 

True. Merely pointing out the flaw was enough to get a dialog going, which is what I hoped for. It would have been nice of you to bring something else to the table, but it's certainly not required. I think the issue was more in how you pointed it out. As you saw, changing one thing around made it more reasonable, and we didn't have to dismiss the entire suggestion based on one small issue. I do appreciate your post, though. Hopefully we can get more input and move toward a competent solution for this.