When Is God Mode Getting Nerfed?

[Decim0]

why u ask for nerf? even thou i dont have them i still dont want to get them nerf :)

[FateZero]

thread should have died 5 pages ago, its all thats left for me to do now.

You heard the OP, we need more images! Hop to it Reaver_X.

[Reaver_X]

You heard the OP, we need more images! Hop to it Reaver_X.

 

These guys seem to have the right idea about this thread!

 

[fishworshipper]

FLEE WHILE WE CAN! THE TROLL GROWS IN STRENGTH!

[XDeathCoreX]

Are you trying to steer this thread to an ability CD based system? Because I believe there are threads already about that. Anyways to answer this question for the umpteenth time, reworking these abilities to reduce damage, makes them work in an infinite energy based situation.

 

If you happen to play a Rhino solo, and are in a heated situation, of which you can't handle alone even with the terribly nerfed new iron skin, what's wrong with running for a bit? You do that with other warframes anyways. What's wrong with instead, Stomping, then running to regenerate shields? He has other abilities you know.

A Warframe like HULK that never backs down. Keeps moving forward sending enemies flying. Warframe needed a HULK and now it got one and with Iron Skin he's perfect. If only he could fly.

 

A Warframe that can withstand Wolverines claws is a plus.

Rhino = HULK

[finaLfrontier]

That's actually pretty funny. Indeed if only he could fly =)

 

Reaver is fired, DeathCore is to assume responsibilities

 

To the rest of you that fail to be funny in any way. Keep it coming

 

You may not have noticed but I edited my initial post with a summary of my suggestions. So the more you bump this thread, the more likely a Dev may see it, if they haven't already, and perhaps even agree with my assessment.

 

In other words, you are inadvertently drawing attention to an idea that you absolutely hate

[Zeddypanda]

Are you trying to steer this thread to an ability CD based system? Because I believe there are threads already about that. Anyways to answer this question for the umpteenth time, reworking these abilities to reduce damage, makes them work in an infinite energy based situation.

 

If you happen to play a Rhino solo, and are in a heated situation, of which you can't handle alone even with the terribly nerfed new iron skin, what's wrong with running for a bit? You do that with other warframes anyways. What's wrong with instead, Stomping, then running to regenerate shields? He has other abilities you know.

It wasn't my intention, but now that you mention it, the most sensible nerf to Iron Skin might just be putting a cooldown between uses in addition to having it cost energy. And no it wouldn't. In an infinite energy situation I'd throw the new Rhino Skin out of the window and just spam Radial Slam since that makes me immune to damage as well. The game doesn't work in an infinite energy situation and you're addressing the wrong problem entirely if you're trying to balance anything with it in mind.

 

Other Warframes move at a much faster speed, and there are unique uses for the current Rhino Skin like using windows leading into space to your advantage. You can, for example, defeat Hyena despite his quickly-recharging shield even if you're using a low-level, slow-firing, slowly-reloading weapon with a low-level Rhino by luring him into a room with such windows and then breaking them to make sure his shield never regenerates even while you're reloading. You can then conserve Iron Skin to just when you're out of shields and recharge them even while exposed to space. Effectively, the battle is now a time trial where you have until your power runs out or your take too many hits (which would make you use up your Skin faster) before defeating Hyena. 

I would like to see interesting uses such as that still be possible without having Rhino Skin effectively be God Mode and I think it's possible just fine.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Zeddypanda

[fishworshipper]

It wasn't my intention, but now that you mention it, the most sensible nerf to Iron Skin might just be putting a cooldown between uses in addition to having it cost energy. And no it wouldn't. In an infinite energy situation I'd throw the new Rhino Skin out of the window and just spam Radial Slam since that makes me immune to damage as well. The game doesn't work in an infinite energy situation and you're addressing the wrong problem entirely if you're trying to balance anything with it in mind.

 

Other Warframes move at a much faster speed, and there are unique uses for the current Rhino Skin like using windows leading into space to your advantage. You can, for example, defeat Hyena despite his quickly-recharging shield even if you're using a low-level, slow-firing, slowly-reloading weapon with a low-level Rhino by luring him into a room with such windows and then breaking them to make sure his shield never regenerates even while you're reloading. You can then conserve Iron Skin to just when you're out of shields and recharge them even while exposed to space. Effectively, the battle is now a time trial where you have until your power runs out or your take too many hits (which would make you use up your Skin faster) before defeating Hyena. 

I would like to see interesting uses such as that still be possible without having Rhino Skin effectively be God Mode and I think it's possible just fine.

Thing is, if Iron Skin stops being God-mode (and instead turns to damage reduction) then that means all DoT attacks (space windows, toxic ancients, 500 chargers, etc) will still do damage to you, and still kill you, effectively making Iron Skin a worse version of Link.

No thanks.

Edited May 15, 2013 by fishworshipper

[Zeddypanda]

Thing is, if Iron Skin stops being God-mode (and instead turns to damage reduction) then that means all DoT attacks (space windows, toxic ancients, 500 chargers, etc) will still do damage to you, and still kill you, effectively making Iron Skin a worse version of Link.

No thanks.

And that is why I'd rather see the ability balanced with duration/cost changes and keep being total invincibility, yes.

 

Overheat actually makes you immune to space windows though, you just won't be able to regenerate shields.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Zeddypanda

[fishworshipper]

And that is why I'd rather see the ability balanced with duration/cost changes and keep being total invincibility, yes.

I'd say a cooldown would be most appropriate.

15 seconds isn't much invuln time when that Ancient Disruptor and his 5 clone brothers all take a minute to kill, and the cost is just fine as-is.

[krisp]

That's actually pretty funny. Indeed if only he could fly =)

 

Reaver is fired, DeathCore is to assume responsibilities

 

To the rest of you that fail to be funny in any way. Keep it coming

 

You may not have noticed but I edited my initial post with a summary of my suggestions. So the more you bump this thread, the more likely a Dev may see it, if they haven't already, and perhaps even agree with my assessment.

 

In other words, you are inadvertently drawing attention to an idea that you absolutely hate

Implying the devs read your feedback and somehow ignore everyone else.

 

 

Anyway, I wouldn't care if they nerf Rhino, it's silly atm anyway. Just let me keep my CC immunity.

[fishworshipper]

Implying the devs read your feedback and somehow ignore everyone else.

 

 

Anyway, I wouldn't care if they nerf Rhino, it's silly atm anyway. Just let me keep my CC immunity.

I wouldn't mind CC and DoT immunity with a 75% damage reduction on Iron Skin.

That way it's still good, can still facetank and doesn't get pwnt by Ancient Disruptors and is still nerfed.

[Zeddypanda]

I'd say a cooldown would be most appropriate.

15 seconds isn't much invuln time when that Ancient Disruptor and his 5 clone brothers all take a minute to kill, and the cost is just fine as-is.

That works too, as I've mentioned before. I do,however, think it would be perfectly fair for the ability to cost 75.

[Veryk]

The aforementioned abilitys are FINE. Iron skin gets 4/5 uses out of full energy and then you have none. An ancient disrupter tags you at just the right time your out of shields, energy and in trouble, just like every other frame. It's been said before, i'll say it again. Don't like it don't use it.

I love my Rhino just the way he is. Slow and covered in tinfoil.

[vieuxchat]

A Warframe like HULK that never backs down. Keeps moving forward sending enemies flying. Warframe needed a HULK and now it got one and with Iron Skin he's perfect. If only he could fly.

 

A Warframe that can withstand Wolverines claws is a plus.

Rhino = HULK

Oh my !

Now I'll use a green color scheme on my Rhino :D

[potatofamine]

This isn't an MMORPG where you're going to have 1 guy tanking a boss, 1 guy healing him, 1 guy doing physical dps, and another guy doing magic dps. It's a 3rd-person shooter! The chat doesn't even work 75% of the time, so wanting to implement this kind of Raid-mechanics in a game where you can rarely even communicate with your team, in a SHOOTER ffs, is ridiculous. Also, most of the grinding in this game is in Defense missions where you have swarms of enemies spread out, not in the boss missions.

[potatofamine]

I wouldn't mind CC and DoT immunity with a 75% damage reduction on Iron Skin.

That way it's still good, can still facetank and doesn't get pwnt by Ancient Disruptors and is still nerfed.

 

Then who is going to take out all of the level 80+ Toxic Ancients?

[PaperAlien]

So you want the tanks to not have tank abilities?..

Because a player with over 1000 shields and probably over 1500 effective health, along with a proposed ~90% damage reduction on top is not tanky. If you are having trouble with 10000 effective shields, then that's really your problem.

Loki's invisibility makes you invincible, because nothing attacks you, you also get a damage buff along with it. 

Iron Skin is fine the way it is. 

This Open Beta is going nowhere if this logic is followed, and a thread pointing out an issue is only to be heeded if it points out/acknowledges every single other issue at the same time. Loki's invisibility being overpowered (or not, I can't make a judgement here) does not necessarily mean Iron Skin is "fine."

Imo, Iron Skin is dumb. Here you go, press this button for invincibility.

 

It isn't dumb because of the invincibility, but because of how boring this ability is. DE was lazy with some of the skills really.

This is exactly the problem. People get addicted to flat-out immunity to an entire part of the game (damage/enemy effects) and not having to use their brain at all because tanking 5 chargers is the same as tanking 15 ancients. If the protection was changed to damage reduction, tanks would at least have to use their brains.

 

Think about it this way. You're in a fight with a boss, and he's kicking your entire team's butts. You have a Rhino on your team who can use Iron Skin and distract said boss while not taking any harm, allowing for you and the others to pound the boss into submission while this is happening. Now, say you nerf Iron Skin. That ability is harmed, and boss fighting becomes that much longer. Boss fights are long enough, we DON'T need to lengthen them.

Give me a break, there's pretty much no boss in the entire game that's actually dangerous with a team. The majority of the length of boss fights is due to their ridiculous health pools. If the team's performance is adversely affected by the completely invincible tank being changed into a tank with 10000 shields, then the team has some serious issues already and maybe should not be fighting that particular boss/enemy.

 

Okay, how would you nerf Iron Skin? Keep in mind that  Ember's Overheat can reduce incoming damage by 91% and set fire to enemies. Any step below total invincibility for Rhino would make it seem not very attractive at all compared to Ember.

 

Do you also want to nerf Ember? There's a new "Ember is underpowered" thread created every single day, so that wouldn't go over well. (Granted, I don't find that she is, but it goes to show.)

Overheat doesn't give CC immunity.

 

Rebalance the frame and then we'll talk.

Oh, wait, right. You just want it nerfed. You don't care if the rest of the skills need a buff or anything.

If you're going to say "OP" take a look at what else Rhino has to offer in terms of abilities. Iron Skin's about it. If anything, arguably all frames have a "OP" skill, but I bet if you own the frame you don't want it taken away.

And dear god, why do I keep seeing these threads? Is everyone that mad Rhino is reviving people and not taking damage? Isn't that a good thing if a team member can save your skin?

Because the OP clearly stated that the other skills did NOT need a buff. Oh wait...

 

 

Then who is going to take out all of the level 80+ Toxic Ancients?

The same guys who were taking them out before. Note the "CC and DoT immunity."

Unless you're implying that this change magically makes everyone do less damage? Well, you're wrong if you thought so.

Well if they're so powerful, why isn't everyone running a rhino or a trinity?

 

Fact is, they're good starter skills. Eventually once you get more experience and skill, you'll get tired of the usual trick. I have a rhino and a trinity but do I use em? Only for variety.

There's the problem right there. Iron Skin is about the most boring ability you can get. It's a crutch that people can use way out of their normal comfort zone, and it removes an entire aspect of the game. Having a DR mechanic would completely fix that, and if the DR is balanced properly a Rhino can still tank effectively.

The fact that Iron Skin has helped countless groups reach very high levels in Defense is not a good sign. Rather, it's saying that this one skill is solely responsible for carrying people far above levels they would normally achieve. Nyx's Chaos may have been broken, but I'm pretty it was prioritised to be fixed ahead of many other issues because it could similarly allow people to reach much higher levels than otherwise possible.

 

Most of the statements I've made above can also be applied to Link. Also, I think that Link should be revamped/removed/replaced completely. It makes no sense for a support character to have an ability that not only allows them to be completely (and sustainably) invincible, but also transfer damage/negative effects onto teammates if they want to. It's pretty much the complete opposite of what a support character should be doing.

Edited May 15, 2013 by PaperAlien

[TGPhoenix]

I wouldn't mind CC and DoT immunity with a 75% damage reduction on Iron Skin.

That way it's still good, can still facetank and doesn't get pwnt by Ancient Disruptors and is still nerfed.

Just curious, but how do you intend to "facetank" an Ancient Disruptor with only 75% DR on Iron Skin and live? If you still take damage from them (even a small amount), you are going to lose all of your energy the first time they hit you. Now you have only 15 secs of mostly reduced damage before you start taking full damage and get steam rolled. I think that against most enemies the % DR might be more balanced, but if you are going to point out the infested here in the balancing discussion, then you must admit the fact that it will completely ruin his ability to tank them properly at high levels. The same is also true of Link. Trinity is portrayed as a support, but she is one of only 2 warframes in the entire game that has a genuine tanking ability. Frost & Nyx are both far more of supports than Trinity is in many ways at higher levels of play.  Calling to nerf both of the tanking abilities would make playing endless defense pointless with the current game. Yes it makes them kinda boring warframes to play, but at the same time they are the only way to get past a certain difficulty ceiling, one that would be drastically lowered without them as they are now.

 

Also, if you don't like playing them because they are boring, then play someone else? Just a thought. All the nerf being called for would do is make them both boring and unviable in high lvl play. My vote is leave them as they are for the time being.

[Schokoladenonkel]

why u ask for nerf? even thou i dont have them i still dont want to get them nerf :)

 

I feel like this statement here sums up alot of the posts, I'm pretty sure that alot of people that are discussing here don't even own him and definitely don't have him supercharged.

 

I guess you could call Rhino my "Main"-Warframe and I think Rhino definitely needs some changes.

 

 

1.Rhino Dash: I think it's fine.

 

2.Iron Skin: Is way too powerful at it's current state, it's a no brainer to use and makes the hardest fights look like kindergarten. In my opinion Iron skin should be a massive dmg reduction (75%) and immunity to all crowd control (including the energy absorption from disruptors). Also the energy cost should be upped to 75, so you can't spam it for eternity.

 

3.Radial Blast: Up the dmg or change it entirely. No one uses it in a serious situation it can be fun to bring on low lvl defense to wipe scrubs or such, but no one uses it in a real fight. An inbteresting way to swap it out would be a real aggro pulling skill, eg.: "Rhino slams the ground getting the attention of all the enemies around him, making them attack him instead of the teammates." Other then that option ofcourse you can just buff it. (dmg-wise)

 

4.Rhino Stomp: It's a good skill, yet it's barely used, because it doesn't have alot of situations where it really comes in handy. The only thing I can really think of is in Infested defense mission, when they start swarming the pod. Other then that, there aren't really alot of situations I'd use it in. Sometimes you might be able to save a teammate from going down, but to be honest what's the point even, if you can whip out Iron Skin just after they went down and res em with full health?

 

So my own idea of an optimal redesign would look like this:

 

1. Rhino Dash: Same as it is.

 

2. Iron Skin: Immunity to all cc (including disruptors) and 75% dmg reduction (btw. even the skillcard says he greatly "reduces" dmg, not ignores it)

 

3. Up the dmg to around 500 (maybe take out the knockdown)

 

4. Make it an aoe stun and an even bigger range aggro pull, so it can be really useful to get your teammates out of trouble or to protect stuff

 

 

Only my take on the whole thing, so you might disagree. But I think a Rhino with those changes would be alot more interesting and fun to play then it is in it's current state.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Schokoladenonkel

[GoneM4d]

This OP is either a very bad troll or just trying to piss off a lot of people.

[Nimis]

The way i see it People should just learn how to play the other Frames, Loki's decoy God mode Cuzz they dont attack loki, Molt, Saryn They attack that (can be considerd god mode) Banshee Ultimate cant take dmg while casting So thats a god mode also, just because the frame cant take dmg doesnt mean u should nerf it. Just learn how to play and have fun. there tons of options for every frame to survive some better then other but he that how Real life go's also.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Nimis

[PaperAlien]

The way i see it People should just learn how to play the other Frames, Loki's decoy God mode Cuzz they dont attack loki, Molt, Saryn They attack that (can be considerd god mode) Banshee Ultimate cant take dmg while casting So thats a god mode also, just because the frame cant take dmg doesnt mean u should nerf it. Just learn how to play and have fun. there tons of options for every frame to survive some better then other but he that how Real life go's also.

I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding what you're trying to say.

 

 

This OP is either a very bad troll or just trying to &!$$ off a lot of people.

It is not trolling to express a valid viewpoint. He is probably not trying to &!$$ people off. The fact that people proceed to get &!$$'d off is the result of their own addiction to immunity from an entire mechanic of the game and their inability to adapt to any, any change, to it.

Edited May 15, 2013 by PaperAlien

[Nimis]

I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding what you're trying to say.

Its kinda easy People are complaing about Trinity link and Rhino iron skin to Be OP because they take no damage.

Wel Loki's decoy Will make all enemy's attack the decoy has the same effect as the iron skin but instead they attack u they just attack the Decoy

Same go's for saryn.

hell there even places u can place the decoy from loki and make it so that no infested can even hit it

 

And in the case of Banshee her ultimate also makes her take no damage i seen people use it as a Ohhh ****  Button in higher level defense just so the team can take the enemy's of them its not a case of some powers that are OP its just a case how other abbility's might lack in some way or even the player who doesnt see the use of most of his skill.

 

My personal experiance is that players only see what they wanna see and that is a Rhino Tanking Load of enemy's or a trinity doing the same

Wel No offense to anyone but there are frame that can kill the whole map in 1 sweap. on lower level defense Yes i know i said lower level defense.

 

Rhino do takes some skill to use iron skin, have u ever player a defense beyond wave 50? if no then Please stop whith the complains and try that for a change If u dont use the skill in exectly the right time u Can die in a instand.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Nimis

[PaperAlien]

Rhino do takes some skill to use iron skin, have u ever player a defense beyond wave 50? if no then Please stop whith the complains and try that for a change If u dont use the skill in exectly the right time u Can die in a instand.

So at level 50+, when not using Iron Skin, "u Can die in a instand", while using Iron Skin will let you pass with just "some skill". No problem here about it being a crutch to use at levels much higher than otherwise attainable?

Also, what's a instand?