Enemies 2.0? One Massive Change That Could Fix Many Of Warframe's Problems. --Revised To Be Easier To Read-

[Ironlixivium]

Very long post, so here's a summary, for those of you with a short attention span (I'm not condescending, I would be one of those people)

Summary:
I think that our current system where enemies become stupidly powerful juggernauts at high levels is making high level missions boring, I would like this system to be replaced with static armor, static damage, much slower health scaling with a cap, and a highly advanced AI to make up for the losses. This would fix freedom of weapon and aura choice, lame bullet sponges, and stupidly op enemies. The AI would be dynamic and change from noob with crap accuracy at low levels to veteren with constant headshots at high levels.


If you're interested in the details, here:

Although this probably won't be implemented for a long time (probably won't ever, but have to try at least), I propose that enemies of a single type have identical armor, and slightly scaling health, but to make up for the loss of bullet sponges, have their AI and skill scale instead. My reason is basically this: bullet sponges are both lame, and the easy way out to difficulty scaling, same with stupidly high damage. No game that has ever managed to make a bullet sponge fun to fight, ever.

For example, a level 1 Grineer would:

• Be startled by the sight of a tenno when the alarm is off, would also be startled by the alarm going off.

• Hide frequently, he's a noob, he's scared.

• Have terrible aim. Remember, with these changes, all enemy weapons of a single type would deal the same damege regardless of enemy levels. To balance that out, low level enemies would need to have trouble hitting us.

• be scared or caught off guard by most abilities, like if you used switch teleport, all the enemies in the area would be confused, not just the one you teleported.

And a high level Grineer would: (mid-high at least, lets say 50)

• Shoot on sight, they wouldn't be startled at all by the presence of a tenno.

• Have great aim, and get frequent headshots (probably 50-75%)

• Be more aggresive, these guys know what they're doing.

• Take cover only under certain conditions. While low levels would run to cover immediately, like they do now, these would only go for cover when the right conditions are met, like if mesa used peacemaker, they start taking fire, or if a tenno is getting a high kill streak.

• Not let their armor protrude from behind cover. That's a noob mistake.

• Recognize abilities and know how to dodge them (rolling out of the way of excal's slash dash, running from tornadoes, etc). Higher level enemies would get better and better at dodging abilities and weapons.

The Idea behind this is to exchange stupidly tanky and powerful brain-dead enemies for enemies with a decent weapon, decent armor, and slightly scaling health. For endless missions, though, amount of enemies would continue to increase the longer you go, so that eventually you'll reach the point where it's too much to handle.

This would fix:

• Choice, you could then choose auras besides corrosive projection, and wepons besides soma and boltor prime.

• Press four to win. (imagine that, there's a way to fix that without nerfing all skills to the point where they aren't worth using.) Enemies would know how to dodge abilities without their op nullies. You'll have to only use abilities when the time is right.

A few other changes:

• Melee units would wait around corners to ambush you, instead of being filled with stupidity the second they touch a melee weapon.

• They would be able to handle certain undodgable abilities like Molecular prime.

I could write more, but this post is long enough as it is. What do you, as the community think about this? Do you like this idea, or think it might not work? Please tell me your thoughts. :D

Edited April 16, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Aeiroth]

Oh if only we could have dynamic enemy AI... Unfortunately, that requires more than a toaster for a brain.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

OK my thoughts...
TL;DR

[Shreiko]

     I've been saying it for so long, all the frame nerfs aren't addressing the deeper issues. The enemies are too dangerous to engage without immortality or spamming killswitch or cc abilities.Enemy AI needs some devotion for each faction, and if not each faction, at least allow special units act distinctly diferent from others and not do $&*&*#(%& OP damage to my warframe wrapped in paper mache-shields.

 

     To me if this was addressed the game becomes immediately extremely fun to play. I dont like dying when I dont make mistakes, but in warframe the game kills me very often even when I have no way to influence an outcome. Getting raped by procs and the most disgusting enemy, flame bombards and obscenely large AOE with --->PUNCHTHROUGH<--- . I cant think of anything more OP than explosions that pass through solid objects then cause you to burn through those solid objects (this is OP within the context of an enemy having this).

 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °)

 

     Also I like your ideas for AI change, seem to be well thought out.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Shreiko

[Ironlixivium]

OK my thoughts...

TL;DR

 

Good point, fixed it so it's a bit more reader friendly.

 

     I've been saying it for so long, all the frame nerfs aren't addressing the deeper issues. The enemies are too dangerous to engage without immortality or spamming killswitch or cc abilities.Enemy AI needs some devotion for each faction, and if not each faction, at least allow special units act distinctly diferent from others and not do $&*&*#(%& OP damage to my warframe wrapped in paper mache-shields.

 

     To me if this was addressed the game becomes immediately extremely fun to play. I dont like dying when I dont make mistakes, but in warframe the game kills me even when I have no way to influence an outcome. Getting raped by procs and the most disgusting enemy, flame bombards and obscenely large AOE with --->PUNCHTHROUGH<--- . I cant think of anything more OP than explosions that pass through solid objects then cause you to burn through those solid objects (within the context of an enemy having this).

 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °)

 

     Also I like your ideas for AI change, seem to be well thought out.

 

     Thanks, The problem right now is that the enemies don't require any skill at all to defeat, they just run around, the only time they're hard to hit is when they jump on top of stuff in that stupid way-too-fast way they do.

 

     My suggestions do sound like they'd be hell to add to the game, but DE is more than capable. They show us this on a regular basis, and it's in their NAME. The AI is probably the most neglected detail in warframe, too, everything else is amazing, but to be completely honest Halo: Combat Evolved's AI was more advanced :/ at least it knew how to ambush you from around corners and take cover at a logical time.

 

     I have no doubt DE could pull this off, just again, probably would take a while, if this were ever implemented.

[slykidd]

one problem i find is the introduction of enemies.why do i see dhraks masters and naplams bombers on mercury of all places? new players dont have the means to fight these kind of guys. it should be limited to lancers and shotgunners. enemy introduction needs to be revised its just not fair for lower players. 
 

[Tyreuzs]

sounds good to me eventhough i read only the summary :3

[Shreiko]

Good point, fixed it so it's a bit more reader friendly.

 

 

     Thanks, The problem right now is that the enemies don't require any skill at all to defeat, they just run around, the only time they're hard to hit is when they jump on top of stuff in that stupid way-too-fast way they do.

 

     My suggestions do sound like they'd be hell to add to the game, but DE is more than capable. They show us this on a regular basis, and it's in their NAME. The AI is probably the most neglected detail in warframe, too, everything else is amazing, but to be completely honest Halo: Combat Evolved's AI was more advanced :/ at least it knew how to ambush you from around corners and take cover at a logical time.

 

     I have no doubt DE could pull this off, just again, probably would take a while, if this were ever implemented.

The last time I think any significant changes to AI were made was around the release of spy 2.0 and the AI still dont provide a great challenging experience.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Shreiko

[Gryphticon]

This was posted numerous times on the forums (including by me). It is the most logical suggestion that should be put into the game but at this point, it's obvious that either DE can't or doesn't know how to implement a more advanced AI or they're focusing on releasing more content which is to prevent player inactivity which is ironic because a more advanced AI would rocket player activity right through the charts.

[oinkah]

These smart enemies would require huge nerfs to abilities, or else their intelligence will go unnoticed. Any changes to abilities are met with much hostility. People were so sour after Radial Javelin nerf that developers had to announce full Excal rework to remedy that.

Edited April 16, 2015 by oinkah

[Ironlixivium]

These smart enemies would require huge nerfs to abilities, or else their intelligence will go unnoticed. Any changes to abilities are met with much hostility. People were so sour after Radial Javelin nerf that developers had to announce full Excal rework to remedy that.

What abilities are you talking about? In specific, most cases probably wouldn't be necessary.

[oinkah]

What abilities are you talking about? In specific, most cases probably wouldn't be necessary.

Big nukes like Miasma and heavy duty CC like Bastille. Ai is helpless against that.