Why Rhino Should Be Buffed

[Scherhardt]

-Repost from another thread coz no one gives a damn there.

 

Few suggestions. 

 

Replace Radial Blast with:

Taunt/Provoke - creates aggro and braces the body from incoming DMG.

         -Small AoE, Increase HP by 40. Increase Armor by 7. Lasts 3 secs.

         -Medium AoE. Increase HP by 80. Increase Armor by 14. Lasts 5 secs.

         -Large AoE. Increase HP by 120. Increase Armor by 21. Lasts 7 secs.

 

Replace Iron Skin with:

Impervion - Enter a stance that makes the DMG you recieve do DMG around you and decreases DMG recieved. Immune to knockdowns and staggers.

         -Deals 15% of enemy DMG per hit around you. 15% DMG reduction.. Lasts 2 secs.

         -Deals 30% of enemy DMG per hit around you. 25% DMG reduction. Lasts 4 secs.

         -Deals 45% of enemy DMG per hit around you. 35% DMG reduction. Lasts 6 secs.

[Dovahjim]

Personally I just think Rhino should be buffed all the way back up, and if not forever then until they come up with a better idea than ruining a Warframe, so we can at least use him for the meanwhile.

[Psicomax]

from 4chan warframe general:

 

Well, a maxed Iron Skin is 80% DR for 50 energy. With Focus, it's... 80% DR.

For contrast, a maxed Overheat is 70% DR and 75 fire damage per second in an aura for 50 energy. With focus, it's 91% DR, along with an extra eighty fire damage per second.

Maybe once they hotfix in Iron Skin providing immunity to stagger, disruptors, and more poison resistance, you can start saying Rhino is the tanky frame again. 'Til then, your bread and butter ability works better on Hotchicken Thunderthighs and comes with free passive aggro generation.

Wait, wait, checked my numbers. It TOTALLY throws the scales back in Rhino's favour that Iron Skin is 15 seconds to Overheat's 13.

[Jevanee]

Pretty much everything I think has already been said but I wanted to show my support in at the very least revoking the iron skin nerf.

 

I was on just now doing the corpus assassination alert (I tend to play solo) and suffice to say it went a tad worse than usual. For the most part I only really use iron skin out of the Rhino's abilities, as charge and radial blast are no more effective than a charged hammer swing and rhino stomp is simply too energy draining to be worth the effort. But playing this time around as a supercharged level 30 Rhino bear in mind, I was killed once and spent most of the mission running towards enemies and shortly after running back into cover as if to reenact a Benny Hill sketch. Normally I'd use iron skin to compensate for my shields running out or worst case scenario to buy myself some time to fall back and reload, but that simply doesn't work any more. All iron skin did was make my Rhino look more sparkly as he collapsed in a bullet riddled heap. 

 

What I'm trying to say is that as of the last update iron skin does jack to prevent you dying, you'd be better off running away and waiting for your shields to recharge. Rhino no longer feels like a tank, he's pretty much just an obese Excalibur with no worthwhile abilities and a tendency to die more because unlike say Excalibur he can't run away crying fast enough.

[BongBubblingEspeon]

I really hope they buff rhino or something. He was my fave warframe, but now i have no use for him with this nerf. Hell without wanting to play as rhino I've been distracted by other games. 

[R3leaZ]

I was one of the few people apparently who knew about Rhino getting nerfed (Since so many people didn't listen to me that the reason is that his Iron Skin was never meant to make him fully immune NOT because of PvP) but I thought DE would be sensible and buff his other abilities or other traits about Rhino. After what I've seen that they did to Rhino I really feel like DE made a mistake here. They nerfed the only thing that was useful about Rhino. His other abilities are way too weak. (And Im not talking about damage wise.)

 

Eventhough I like most of the suggestions I don't want his Iron Skin to make him immune again. Yes, I wouldn't mind making the damage reduction even higher but not immune. I would like to have other buffs about Rhino instead. Maybe to his abilities, or a huge buff to his armor and health since like you've said Rhino is the heaviest Warframe. I would even be fine buffing both abilities and survivability since yes the only thing that was unbalanced was his immunity. (Now that that is gone he needs a huge buff)

 

Rhino is a true tank while Frost was meant to also have some DPS. Currently his shielding is the same as both Mag (orly?) and Frost I would really love to see a buff to Rhino's survivability

Edited May 19, 2013 by R3leaZ

[GroxXx777]

I was one of the few people apparently who knew about Rhino getting nerfed (Since so many people didn't listen to me that the reason is that his Iron Skin was never meant to make him fully immune NOT because of PvP) but I thought DE would be sensible and buff his other abilities or other traits about Rhino. After what I've seen that they did to Rhino I really feel like DE made a mistake here. They nerfed the only thing that was useful about Rhino. His other abilities are way too weak. (And Im not talking about damage wise.)

 

Eventhough I like most of the suggestions I don't want his Iron Skin to make him immune again. Yes, I wouldn't mind making the damage reduction even higher but not immune. I would like to have other buffs about Rhino instead. Maybe to his abilities, or a huge buff to his armor and health since like you've said Rhino is the heaviest Warframe. I would even be fine buffing both abilities and survivability since yes the only thing that was unbalanced was his immunity. (Now that that is gone he needs a huge buff)

 

Most rhino players want the invulnerability back, It's what made Rhino special. Of course that all the other skills need rework, but even if they do and don't bring the old Iron Skin back rhino will not be the same. Plus, they can add cooldown or increase the energy cost or both so it's not spamable anymore.

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

Personally, if Iron skin is to remain nerfed balanced in this way what I would like to see is a self-heal ability on Rhino. Perhaps scrap his #3 ability and replace it with a Heal-over-time ability that replaces a percentage of his health (preferable to a flat amount imo primarily for scaling issues into late-game) over a similar period of time to the duration of Iron skin.  After all Rhino is supposed to be a tank, yet he has one tank ability and 3 (2 if not counting charge) low damage CC abilities, yet we already have 'frames that are largely dedicated to CC  who do it better.

.

With a reliable healing ability armor and damage reduction suddenly become a lot more effective, at the same time Iron skin is still not a God-mode ability, but a means to dramatically increase the efficiency of heals allowing for greater time in action. This also makes health+ armor builds a lot more attractive.

 

Currently there are no really reliable heals beyond Rejuvenation (which is nowhere near good enough for combat situations, just a top-up between fights) and the rather underwhelming Trinity Well/ Ultimate, which have some issues not least of which is making sure you actually have a Trinity with you (soloers say huh? ;)) 

 

I'd also like to see armor have an effect on Toxic Ancient damage...a reduced effect maybe, but some reduction to a cloud of smoke while wearing a sealed armored suit is not unreasonable surely?

[CrainnGlas]

I agree with dukarriope, Iron skin was the only skill that truly made rhino a viable warframe, especially when playing tougher missions. Ultimately the patch doesn't even change what players where arguring about, rhino players will still have to go close to the enemy with this reduced iron skin to be effective. His role is a tank frame. Personally I think iron skin should be returned to its former status, but if not perhaps compromise by making him slow when it is active or making it cost more energy.

[WCdesign]

Just to correct bit OP, Rhino isnt frame with highest armor, Frost is with the Aurora Frost helm. 

 

Plus

Excellent crowd control abilities - is not so true, when you Rhino Stomp, its very hard to hit enemies, especially Acients on higher waves where you have to aim directly to legs. Using Rhino Stomp you will be unable to target critical points. 

Edited May 19, 2013 by WCdesign

[jrkong]

Just as a note, DE is aware that Rhino's other abilities could stand to be looked at:

 

Being aware and doing something are two different things. I really don't think we would have all this commotion if the Iron Skin change came together with ability changes. The goal was to "balance" the Rhino not break it. This wasn't an urgent and necessary change like the Saryn's Contagion which was a complete bug. If you plan to change the defining aspect of a warframe is it too much to ask for you to change it when you've also worked out a better skill set as well. While your terms say something like "I accept that there will be updates and changes to weapons and warframes" is it too much to ask to hold off mechanic changes which will change gameplay until you work out all the new mechanics? 

[dukarriope]

Just to correct bit OP, Rhino isnt frame with highest armor, Frost is with the Aurora Frost helm. 

Hmm. Well,  I wasn't counting extra helms.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Upvoted.

 

Unfortunately, I see no point in listing out all these.

 

The community can't seem to see past the Iron Skin skill anyway so bringing in his stats, weak offensive power (standard disadvantage of tanks) and his other useless skills in as disadvantages is just going to be ignored.

 

Their method of comparison is (Iron Skin) no damage taken VS (all other skills) damage taken. They don't care about anything else since most of them probably don't even play Rhino anyway.

Edited May 19, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[Spellcasterz]

People need to stop assume 80% dmg red makes for a tanky frame.

Against high level focus firing it does not...at all.

They either need to return it to its former glory or make it stack with Steel Fibre and let that work on shields during IS´s duration and even then its questionable how much of a tank approach it allows Rhino.

 

Seriously at this point I dont even think DE wants Rhino to be a real tank anymore but rather shove an CC-caster down our throaths.

[WCdesign]

1.Steel Fiber should be affecting shields aswell

2. If Iron Skin should make just 80% reduction, fine, but let it reduce everything, dmg taking to shields, poison etc. Make it immune to knockdown (however I think knockdowns should been affected by different systems), and energy draing effects, etc.... And 80% should be applied after dmg reduction from Frame base armor stats plus Steel Fiber.
3. give instead of 1st skill Rhino charge different skill, lets say taunt/ aggro type abilities
4. instead of third skill, some dmg returning skill, maybe even passive ability who cares
5. there is parry,block system already in game, nobody is using that. There are shields in game already, try to play with idea how to incorporate them so frames can you them aswell. There can be mods increasing efectivity of parry/blocking aswell.

Edited May 19, 2013 by WCdesign

[SoanoS]

I have some suggestions.

 

1) Rhino Charge should be slowed down so that the players can control the path of the destruction.

 

2) Iron Skin should be at least partially applied to health too, so he won't be as super-squishy as without it against Ancients in Infested missions.

-OR-

2) Give him a health regeneration for the duration of the effect.

 

3) Radial Blast should deal slightly more damage (also knock down enemies, if not already, was always too hectic for me to take notice), capable of outright killing some weaker, light enemies.

 

4) Rhino Stomp duration should be increased somewhat, with an additional stun effect after it wears out, because considering they have just been subjected to a temporal disruption field they should feel a bit queasy and disoriented.

 

5) Rhino should have unusually high stamina, and sprint should start slower than normal, but increase over time until he reaches his full speed (Average sprinting speed) and becomes an "unstoppable freight-train of doom and carnage", capable of staggering or even knocking over enemies (depending on their size) just by slamming that massive hulk against them (just by running at them, effect similar to jump-slide attack). This would help with the ancients, as Rhino could knock them down for a moment, increasing his usefulness at tanking them.

 

6) Increase Rhino Health pool and and boost his armour rating slightly (just a little, maybe 15 to 25) to make him a bit less reliant on Iron Skin as soon as he sees an enemy. His current armour rating is same as Frost, which as far as I know is not a dedicated tanking class and relies more on the slowdown effect of his cold elemental abilities to reduce or even completely prevent any incoming damage.

 

7) Maybe create a Rhino-only shield item, like a large buckler or a spiked shield?

 

Just brainstorming here, but these are just suggestions. :P

[Philosopher]

It is time to convert fellow Rhino riders. A new god has emerged from the depths of the volcano. All must worship our new goddess EMBER. Overheat gives 70% damage reduction, slap focus on her and jump to 90% DAMAGE REDUCTION + CLOSE RANGE FIRE DAMAGE.  Worship our goddess for she shall give her followers her blessing if they offer her the sacrifice named General Sargas Ruk who resides on Tethys, Saturn. Ember has spoken and SHE DEMANDS A SACRIFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Delirious_Panda]

Rhino's Iron Skin was easily the redeeming ability of the Rhino, everything else made him a pure support frame. His abilities do practically no damage in comparison to other warframes so guns are the only things Rhino can resort to to kill besides that Rhino is just a big slow moving damage sponge.

 

I have been playing Rhino for quite a while (easily 20+ hours of gameplay overall 15 of which all abilities have used Rhino with maxed abilities) and while Rhino's abilities damage the occasional enemy they only serve as a retreat tactic without the support of your teammates. Avalanche deals 1000 damage to all enemies in the radius effectively instakilling anything in the room before anyone can do much retaliation meaning they take, effectively, 0 damage. The only way the Rhino can perform a similar feat without taking damage would be to use Iron Skin. The only solid way to take out most crowds for a Rhino would be to use Iron Skin and use a number of charged melees to whittle the crowd down to size. So if we were to do a comparison between Iron Skin vs other warframe's "nuke" it balances out. Assuming 30 enemies are in the room it would take most warframes a simple click to clear out the room where as the Rhino would need to perform Iron Skin and hack the enemies with its melee and depending on the melee weapon this may or may not be as effective as the almighty "nuke" other warframes can pull off as the effectiveness of this tactic is dependent on the melee being used (example using a skana's charge attack takes about 1 second per hit and assuming each hit kills in 1 hit it will still take the Rhino roughly 30 seconds to clear the room or 2 Iron Skins with Continuity).

 

As for the other abilities, they don't help the Rhino clear the room by himself at all and teammates are necessary for them to be useful. Due to their low damage both Rhino Stomp and Radial Blast only stall enemies enough for the Rhino to take out 4 enemies at most before they get up and retaliate as a result it usually ends up being a waste of energy. This is beside the fact that Vauban's Bastalle does exactly what Rhino Stomp does better and cheaper.

Yea i agree with this completely. I have bought the Vauban and his bastille is way better than the rhino stomp because of bigger radius and longer held time.(although he has really low shields)