But What The Heck Has Happened To The Market?

[BoswerLK]

it definitely neuters a lot of the freedom of experimentation that helped put some variety into the grinding. punishing new players with lack of gameplay variety is just gonna hamper anyone from spending anything or continuing to play the game. it's already extremely repetitive, with its 3 map sets and 3 enemy sets, and the plethora of 1-2 power warframes

 

tribes: ascend had extremely grindy progression for weapon upgrades....but generally new classes and completely different weapons were very accessible, and let players experiment a bit to find what they like before they invest a heavy money/timesink into their loadout of choice. if the plan is to make endgame grinding, that would be how you do it

 

 

right now, this is looking like some serious grind2play....it doesn't even make sense. the credit buff was excessive, but that was only for endgame. new players on mercury and venus and stuff are still hurting for credits as much as everyone before the credit buff. these new gun prices are scaled for people who cleared the system already and have access to every high payout alert and farm pluto for 5k a run.....but no one's gonna play up to this point anymore if they're forced to get there with nothing but starter gear

 

 

 

with each update, I am more and more in disbelief that DE were cocreators of the unreal franchise, and the more it seems everything good about warframe was just a lucky accident. these balance decisions are just completely out of this world, like you're just throwing darts at the wall and seeing what sticks. it doesn't look like you guys have tried balancing a game before in your life

[Love2Camp]

I reset, despite these changes. And even before resetting I was SICK of grinding Venus and Earth for alloy and rubedo. Wading in just about any other material, but the ones actually needed for crafting? Naw, that's no fun.

[Sikab]

it definitely neuters a lot of the freedom of experimentation that helped put some variety into the grinding. punishing new players with lack of gameplay variety is just gonna hamper anyone from spending anything or continuing to play the game. it's already extremely repetitive, with its 3 map sets and 3 enemy sets, and the plethora of 1-2 power warframes

 

tribes: ascend had extremely grindy progression for weapon upgrades....but generally new classes and completely different weapons were very accessible, and let players experiment a bit to find what they like before they invest a heavy money/timesink into their loadout of choice. if the plan is to make endgame grinding, that would be how you do it

 

 

right now, this is looking like some serious grind2play....it doesn't even make sense. the credit buff was excessive, but that was only for endgame. new players on mercury and venus and stuff are still hurting for credits as much as everyone before the credit buff. these new gun prices are scaled for people who cleared the system already and have access to every high payout alert and farm pluto for 5k a run.....but no one's gonna play up to this point anymore if they're forced to get there with nothing but starter gear

 

 

 

with each update, I am more and more in disbelief that DE were cocreators of the unreal franchise, and the more it seems everything good about warframe was just a lucky accident. these balance decisions are just completely out of this world, like you're just throwing darts at the wall and seeing what sticks. it doesn't look like you guys have tried balancing a game before in your life

You compare an Arena FPS with a Dungeon Crawler.

 

Guns are essential in a PvP game, balance is all around weapons. They are mandatory even for new players. Thats why Arena FPS games makes the Mods to be grinded out.

 

While Dungeon Crawlers balance is more about the Strength of mobs, Hero skills. Weapons in a Dungeon Crawler are not a mandatory thing. This genre of game were ALWAYS about grinding for better weapons. If you don't have them, you can still advance, but slower then for example with XY weapon.

 

Credits. No. Even on low lvls it's easy to gain enough to Fusion and get your Weapons. Weapons are just as content as maps/mobs. If it all were available from the start without any work, players would get through content way too fast.

 

I always said this need to change, and I'm glad they made it more grindy. As some1 who played Diablo2 for 12years, I don't have any problem with grinding.

 

Sure, some1 might get annoyed with it... But Dungeon Crawlers are not for every1.

 

TL;DR: Grinding is the game itself. Don't like it? Game is not for you then.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Sikab

[KhanCipher]

TL;DR: Grinding is the game itself. Don't like it? Game is not for you then.

 

this is 2013, we should be past the whole "make it grindy as hell" to "balance" a f2p...

 

also if you haven't noticed, DE seems to want to make all weapons equally viable.

Edited May 18, 2013 by KhanCipher

[Sikab]

this is 2013, we should be past the whole "make it grindy as hell" to "balance" a f2p...

I see you really just read the TL;DR part... This is not a sad excuse for a F2P, it's a Game style. Dungeon Crawler

[Afroman12]

The prices are quite resonable

 

The alerts give between 2 and 3 times the listed credits as a reward now, so by "just" playing the game, you will have a lot of credits

 

Reasonable? Lol no. You are already so far in the game credits are easier. I have 2 accounts. This one and a F2P one to get a feel of both sides. I reset both and let me tell you this new market of very high and no access to newer weapons is pissing me off.

[KhanCipher]

I see you really just read the TL;DR part... This is not a sad excuse for a F2P, it's a Game style. Dungeon Crawler

 

still, this is 2013 the game style is no reason to make it grindy as hell in the f2p market.

[Sikab]

still, this is 2013 the game style is no reason to make it grindy as hell in the f2p market.

What an earth the year has to do with a Game Genre? so in 2013 FPS games should also contain less shooting?

Edited May 18, 2013 by Sikab

[BoswerLK]

You compare an Arena FPS with a Dungeon Crawler.

 

Guns are essential in a PvP game, balance is all around weapons. They are mandatory even for new players. Thats why Arena FPS games makes the Mods to be grinded out.

 

While Dungeon Crawlers balance is more about the Strength of mobs, Hero skills. Weapons in a Dungeon Crawler are not a mandatory thing. This genre of game were ALWAYS about grinding for better weapons. If you don't have them, you can still advance, but slower then for example with XY weapon.

 

Credits. No. Even on low lvls it's easy to gain enough to Fusion and get your Weapons. Weapons are just as content as maps/mobs. If it all were available from the start without any work, players would get through content way too fast.

 

I always said this need to change, and I'm glad they made it more grindy. As some1 who played Diablo2 for 12years, I don't have any problem with grinding.

 

Sure, some1 might get annoyed with it... But Dungeon Crawlers are not for every1.

 

TL;DR: Grinding is the game itself. Don't like it? Game is not for you then.

I've played d2 as long as you. I don't remember 80% of the classes being locked at the start, or abilities that were unavailable without grinding out a zod

 

your analogy is terrible. grinding for a perfect griff and eth 4s polearms with conviction aura is something you do to augment abilities and playstytles you've already settled into. there's a reason the first thing people buy on jsp is enigma...it's not because it's super op or anything, but because it lets you spam teleport to get around and bot efficiently

 

dungeon crawlers are about grinding it out with a setup you like, and to make it more powerful. not being a useless fodder for 20 hours before you get to actually have a new ability and find out you hate your class

 

 

what DE is doing now is basically saying "no you cannot have a build, you wanna see what it's like to spam hammers and smite and frorbs and blizz and lightning and whirl? nope, go farm a ber with nothing but your regular attack first. oh, you found meteor sucks? too bad, 20 hours down the drain. farm for another 20 to try firewall"

[Sikab]

dungeon crawlers are about grinding it out with a setup you like

Can't recall my Necro had every item in his inventory available as soon as i hit max lvl. I had to grind them out or trade them.... Which was achieved in several months.

 

Also can't recall my Necro had every type of item+rune. But hey, might be my memories are wrong. And we did got everything without any work done.

 

You need to work as much here for the items, as you had to in any other Crawler. D2,D2,PoE,Marvel Heroes... Every game of these have ppl open topics like these. Yet they do just fine.

 

As I said. This type of gameplay might seem dated for the newer generation. As I'm 37 years old I don't mind it... I would go as far I prefer this type of game.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Sikab

[KhanCipher]

It's not Grindy cause DE is the Bad and Evil. It's Grindy cause the Genre is grindy

 

i think you got it mixed up, the genre itself is more about punishing you for getting hit, not grinding the same map over and over again because you need to craft a weapon just to try a playstyle

[Sikab]

i think you got it mixed up, the genre itself is more about punishing you for getting hit, not grinding the same map over and over again because you need to craft a weapon just to try a playstyle

I still remember killing Baal like 7000 times till my desired item dropped, just so I can test stuff. Yet ppl loved it.

 

It's okey if you don't like it. But stating "It's bad just because" is silly.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Sikab

[Cpl_Facehugger]

This - I think it is a good Idea, it is a balance thing, really.

Yeah. The real problem with it is that all the guns are BP-locked now, and how most of the ones that are cost a pretty ridiculous amount of alloy plate.

[BoswerLK]

Can't recall my Necro had every item in his inventory available as soon as i hit max lvl. I had to grind them out or trade them.... Which was achieved in several months.

 

Also can't recall my Necro had every type of item+rune. But hey, might be my memories are wrong. And we did got everything without any work done.

 

You need to work as much here for the items, as you had to in any other Crawler. D2,D2,PoE,Marvel Heroes... Every game of these have ppl open topics like these. Yet they do just fine.

 

As I said. This type of gameplay might seem dated for the newer generation. As I'm 37 years old I don't mind it... I would go as far I prefer this type of game.

you missed my point. items in d2 are not analogous to weapons in wf. they're analogous to weapon ranks and mods. they are things that enhance the effectiveness of a playstyle, not things that determine how you play

 

d2 classes and abilities are analogous to weapons and frames in wf. putting restrictions on them is the same as saying "you can only play frenzy barb until you grind to death. BO, ww, javelin, and all these other barb types are not even in your vocabulary". they're things that greatly change how you play the game. not everyone likes playing frenzy barb/assault rifles. some of us might prefer fb/frorb sorc or shotguns

 

no one likes to spend 20 hours with a setup they hate to unlock 1 new setup.....to find out they also hate that setup. this is like forcing you to play smitedin to 99 first before you even unlock necro

 

 

this isn't dated gameplay. this is just an idiotic game model

[Neuromante]

I think the issue the DEs are trying to face with this market patch is the exact opposite to what you are all worried about, which is the lack of endgame content. 

 

For now they still havent decided/figured out exactly what the end game is really gonna be, and they can clearly see that people are more likely to leave the game after they have played several hours, instead that at the beginning.

 

Stretching the time needed to unlock weapons is a way to prolong the time in which people have "something to do", and sincerly I dont see anything bad about this choice.

 

If I look back at my experience here, the most fun parts have been the challanges for archiving a particular warframe or a high tier weapon, and I think I would play more if I still had to obtain rare items, instead of just grinding for cap all those that I already have.

[Sikab]

you missed my point. items in d2 are not analogous to weapons in wf. they're analogous to weapon ranks and mods. they are things that enhance the effectiveness of a playstyle, not things that determine how you play

 

d2 classes and abilities are analogous to weapons and frames in wf. putting restrictions on them is the same as saying "you can only play frenzy barb until you grind to death. BO, ww, javelin, and all these other barb types are not even in your vocabulary". they're things that greatly change how you play the game. not everyone likes playing frenzy barb/assault rifles. some of us might prefer fb/frorb sorc or shotguns

 

no one likes to spend 20 hours with a setup they hate to unlock 1 new setup.....to find out they also hate that setup. this is like forcing you to play smitedin to 99 first before you even unlock necro

 

 

this isn't dated gameplay. this is just an idiotic game model

Actually, I did understand what you say.

 

But didn't want to talk about for several reasons... But since you are eager about the "classes". Let's talk about it.

 

D2: You paid for the game, you get every class.

 

WF: F2P game with 1 starting Class (you can even choose from 3 your preferred one). Those who pay for WF can get every class aswell.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Sikab

[BoswerLK]

Actually, I did understand what you say.

 

But didn't want to talk about for several reasons... But since you are eager about the "classes". Let's talk about it.

 

D2: You paid for the game, you get every class.

 

WF: F2P game with 1 starting Class (you can even choose from 3 your preferred one). Those who pay for WF can get every class aswell.

...so....that makes it a pay2play f2p......how's that even logical. they may as well have called it a demo

[CH33F]

What we need here is to change the material needs for those weapons, and lower some of the worse weapons. Make the materials less costly, and change it so that you can get all the required materials and credits just by playing through the first one or two planets. Once they've got a grip of the game, then you can start to introduce higher costing blueprints and weapons, just like any other game.

[lautalocos]

You do know if you click foundry you get a mini tutorial.

 

Lotus "You will have to CRAFT the to have the strongest weapons" is pretty much what she says.

but most of the weapons you can only craft and not even buy with platinum, the alet rewards, are useless

[Sikab]

...so....that makes it a pay2play f2p......how's that even logical. they may as well have called it a demo

No, that makes it a Pay for Convenience.

 

You can either decide to buy them, or take your time, play the game and craft it.

[ADDpillz]

Short answer:

 

DE's stock holders/investors called in.

Edited May 19, 2013 by ADDpillz

[Justiceguy]

I understand the need for a market revamp, some of the weapons were just too easy to purchase with credits alone.

 

Adding a material requirement means you'll have to put some work in to get that weapon you want, not just drop some spare change.

 

Unfortunately the cost to make multiple weapons really adds up now, meaning players will be forced to farm the same places for lengthier periods of time, further adding the the bore that is farming said places.

 

Hopefully this will work itself out with Update 8, adding new areas with higher material yields and/or credit rewards might play some part, or even material trading alone.

 

Too soon to tell, but maybe we might be interested in that "Material Booster" mentioned on the livestream after all..........

 

I look forward to seeing greater challenges with greater rewards in the future, hopefully ending the brainless "efficient" farming that we're forced to do now.

[TarkoRehin]

I'm not too concerned about this change. Most of the weapons are still very much available and credits have been plentiful ever since they increased the amount you get from missions and alerts. Adding more blueprints encourages people to spend some money on platinum, completely optional, but it supports DE to continue the development process. I'm not sure how their financial status is, but looking at how many people absolutely not willing to purchase anything for any reason I am more worried about that than about us not always getting what we want.

Edited May 19, 2013 by TarkoRehin

[Sikab]

I'm not too concerned about this change. Most of the weapons are still very much available and credits have been plentiful ever since they increased the amount you get from missions and alerts. Adding more blueprints encourages people to spend some money on platinum, completely optional, but it supports DE to continue the development process. I'm not sure how their financial status is, but looking at how many people absolutely not willing to purchase anything for any reason I am more worried about that than about us not always getting what we want.

Can I hug you? Finally some1 with common sense.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Sikab

[bakaxy]

It's encouraging blueprint and foundry use.

 

Tell that to new players who don't have access to Alloy Plates for every single weapon...