I Think All These "nerfs" Are To Fool Us

[Silversray]

Interesting topic. "Follow this topic" button clicked.

 

[Flunky]

new player experience is awful, mk1 braton is total garbage. you people are looking at this from the vantage point of an experienced player who knows what weapons are good and understands enemies and how maps are laid out. coming into this game and being stuck with that nonsense for hours and hours of grinding is not any fun and does not seem at all likely to retain players

[CrazyCanadian24]

new player experience is awful, mk1 braton is total garbage. you people are looking at this from the vantage point of an experienced player who knows what weapons are good and understands enemies and how maps are laid out. coming into this game and being stuck with that nonsense for hours and hours of grinding is not any fun and does not seem at all likely to retain players

 

Not me. My hindsight is 20/20.

[Drakontis]

new player experience is awful, mk1 braton is total garbage. you people are looking at this from the vantage point of an experienced player who knows what weapons are good and understands enemies and how maps are laid out. coming into this game and being stuck with that nonsense for hours and hours of grinding is not any fun and does not seem at all likely to retain players

 

I'm a relatively new player. I have probably about a month of gametime under my belt, but I've acquired every firearm in the game (pistols and long-guns) and by far, the Mk-1 Braton is the best starter weapon I've used in any game. If you compare it to, say, the M16A3 in Combat Arms, it literally glows in usefulness. The M16A3 has the lowest damage of any AR, a really bad spread pattern, crap portability and is arguably the worst weapon in the game. The Mk-1 Braton, on the other hand, is a great weapon. It's almost Sniper Rifle accurate in bursts, has pretty decent starter damage and has decent fire rate. 

 

But that does not mean that every other weapon in the game needs to be a hassle to get. 

[Excitonex]

I thought the MK1 was a very good starter weapon compared to what you get in most games. It will definitely serve you well until you can craft another weapon. I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to do 10-15 missions in an area that drops alloy plate to craft a weapon.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I thought the MK1 was a very good starter weapon compared to what you get in most games. It will definitely serve you well until you can craft another weapon. I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to do 10-15 missions in an area that drops alloy plate to craft a weapon.

Yes and no, It takes 3-5 missions to get to an area that would allow you to farm effectively. One of my biggest problems, is that since alloy plate is so hard to get, you have to stop progressing through the missions early on, which gets boring. even a 50% reduction in price (60-70 is more reasonable on most items) it'd be ok, 150 alloy for a burston? Sure that's not too bad. 75 alloy for a bo? Eh, for 5 more you can get a heavy weapon, but that's ok I guess. I feel by the end of all the missions on venus, you should be able to craft 1-2 weapons.

[Oprah]

The market changes are such a shame.  When I first started playing, what kept me interested in the grind towards getting a new warframe was the variety of guns I could swap in and out of on the way there.  What makes a game like this viable for me is variety.  There's a severe lack of progression in the game and the market changes seem to have been an attempt to increase the time a new player 'has' to play, assuming they don't out right quit the game out of frustration. 

 

I took a look at the market and noted that 6 out of 41 weapons were buyable with credits.  The argument that you can still buy the blueprint and grind for weapons isn't acceptable with how precious resources are.  A game like this only works if you can make grinding rewarding and still manage to find a way to keep the gameplay engaging.  Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer comes to mind as something that pulls off the style of game that warframe is.  They keep gameplay engaging right from the get go by allowing you to play multiple classes while having you grind for top tier weapons and additional classes through their RNG system.

 

Lack of variety has always been a problem for me in warframe, and its why I'm no where near as active of a player as I was during the closed beta. I've always thought that they should expand the number of classes you get to work with from the start as well as freeing up the slot restrictions for both guns and warframes, but I understand that there isn't really an expectation to play all the classes in this game and that most people would consider the additional slots as a 'luxury'.  Speaking from the perspective of an experienced player, I wouldn't mind having to grind for the majority of market place content if I wasn't limited in my inventory space.  As for new players, they probably won't be outraged, but the lack of variety and content available at the start would also probably be high on their list of reasons to stop playing.

 

TL;DR : The market price changes were probably made to force newer players to grind right from the get go, and thus increase the longevity of their play time.  However, in my opinion this was a poor decision as it severely limits an already limited amount of gameplay variety (lets be honest, for 90% of us, the awe of space ninjas and parkour runs out right around the time we've finished grinding for a second warframe).  I get that this game is free to play and that the devs need to make money, but the current direction of nickle and diming the player base is doing free to play the wrong way.  I guess im just spoiled by the free to play model of TF2 and DOTA 2, both of which limit 0 gameplay and provide paying players with no power advantage over free players.  Even the cosmetic items (this is more specific to DOTA 2) are given to all players as random drops.  I understand that both of these games are in a much different position than warframe and other new free to play titles (TF2 being already successful before going free to play, and DOTA 2 being able to profit through esports competitions), but they also set an expectation amongst PC gamers and have managed to maintain a loyal and large fan base.

[CrazyCanadian24]

The market changes are such a shame.  When I first started playing, what kept me interested in the grind towards getting a new warframe was the variety of guns I could swap in and out of on the way there.  What makes a game like this viable for me is variety.  There's a severe lack of progression in the game and the market changes seem to have been an attempt to increase the time a new player 'has' to play, assuming they don't out right quit the game out of frustration. 

 

I took a look at the market and noted that 6 out of 41 weapons were buyable with credits.  The argument that you can still buy the blueprint and grind for weapons isn't acceptable with how precious resources are.  A game like this only works if you can make grinding rewarding and still manage to find a way to keep the gameplay engaging.  Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer comes to mind as something that pulls off the style of game that warframe is.  They keep gameplay engaging right from the get go by allowing you to play multiple classes while having you grind for top tier weapons and additional classes through their RNG system.

 

Lack of variety has always been a problem for me in warframe, and its why I'm no where near as active of a player as I was during the closed beta. I've always thought that they should expand the number of classes you get to work with from the start as well as freeing up the slot restrictions for both guns and warframes, but I understand that there isn't really an expectation to play all the classes in this game and that most people would consider the additional slots as a 'luxury'.  Speaking from the perspective of an experienced player, I wouldn't mind having to grind for the majority of market place content if I wasn't limited in my inventory space.  As for new players, they probably won't be outraged, but the lack of variety and content available at the start would also probably be high on their list of reasons to stop playing.

 

TL;DR : The market price changes were probably made to force newer players to grind right from the get go, and thus increase the longevity of their play time.  However, in my opinion this was a poor decision as it severely limits an already limited amount of gameplay variety (lets be honest, for 90% of us, the awe of space ninjas and parkour runs out right around the time we've finished grinding for a second warframe).  I get that this game is free to play and that the devs need to make money, but the current direction of nickle and diming the player base is doing free to play the wrong way.  I guess im just spoiled by the free to play model of TF2 and DOTA 2, both of which limit 0 gameplay and provide paying players with no power advantage over free players.  Even the cosmetic items (this is more specific to DOTA 2) are given to all players as random drops.  I understand that both of these games are in a much different position than warframe and other new free to play titles (TF2 being already successful before going free to play, and DOTA 2 being able to profit through esports competitions), but they also set an expectation amongst PC gamers and have managed to maintain a loyal and large fan base.

 

>Sees username

>Sees wall of text post

>Sees would-be TL;DR version of said wall of text

 

I see what you've done here... very clever indeed...

Edited May 21, 2013 by CrazyCanadian24

[Oprah]

>Sees username

>Sees wall of text post

>Sees would-be TL;DR version of said wall of text

 

I see what you've done here... very clever indeed...

The wall of text is to get my argument across as well as addressing any possible counter arguments people might have so that I won't have to respond to people poking at arbitrary points.

[ADDpillz]

Steve is this your alt account?

Ironically, my first name is Steve.

 

But I'm not the awesome bad@&#! DE_Steve. 

[Pixues]

The market change was needed.

If you can't understand that, then you have a problem. 

Edited May 21, 2013 by Pixues

[CrazyCanadian24]

The market change was needed.

If you can't understand that, then you have a problem. 

 

I almost mistook this for the "make Warframe jokes" thread.

 

The market change was unnecessary. If you can't understand that, then you should probably go see a doctor.

[Pixues]

I almost mistook this for the "make Warframe jokes" thread.

 

The market change was unnecessary. If you can't understand that, then you should probably go see a doctor.

 

Please continue explaining how you run a business like DE...

[CrazyCanadian24]

Please continue explaining how you run a business like DE...

 

I don't need to. How the market was before worked. They didn't need to change it. End of discussion.

[Pixues]

I don't need to. How the market was before worked. They didn't need to change it. End of discussion.

 

It was working on your end.......

No seriously explain in full detail why they didn't need to change it. 

[CrazyCanadian24]

It was working on your end.......

No seriously explain in full detail why they didn't need to change it. 

 

DE wasn't losing money, I thought that would have been obvious.

[Argoms]

It was working on your end.......

No seriously explain in full detail why they didn't need to change it. 

No seriously, show us the numbers.

 

You don't work for DE. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

The market change was needed.

If you can't understand that, then you have a problem. 

You realise what it does to new players right? It makes them farm from the get go, almost literally, why should new players farm for 1-2 hours to just try like 2 new weapons? They barely get to do many missions before they gotta farm if they want new guns (outside of the 8 credit only options, 4 of which you start with, 5 of which can be bought, 0 of which are melee, 2 are long guns (braton, strun) and 3 of which are side arms (aklato (which is more or less a direct upgrade to the lato) lex, and sicarus)

 

edit:

 

It was working on your end.......

No seriously explain in full detail why they didn't need to change it. 

everything is super expensive now, why would any new player want to farm for hours to get new guns right off the bat?

Edited May 21, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Transient]

When I first started playing I remember playing for days for the credits I needed to buy a strun. You guys are acting like you weren't strapped for cash in the beginning and you always had the mountains of cash you have now. I don't think removing the ability to buy weapons with credits is a bad thing, but maybe there should be a few early-game weapons with cheap BPs and resource requirements. Maybe use them as a sort of tutorial to introduce new players to the crafting system which is basically half the game.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Transient

[KvotheTheArcane1]

When I first started playing I remember playing for days for the credits I needed to buy a strun. You guys are acting like you weren't strapped for cash in the beginning and you always had the mountains of cash you have now. I don't think removing the ability to buy weapons with credits is a bad thing, but maybe there should be a few early-game weapons with cheap BPs and resource requirements. Maybe use them as a sort of tutorial to introduce new players to the crafting system which is basically half the game.

We might not have had THAT much cash, but (using the furis as an example of crafting, vs most of the weapons costing 50k) It was easier to get 50k, than to farm 2 neurodes, and 600 alloy plates (alloy plates have been fixed though, so +1 to DE for fixing it.), and most weapons cost 15-20k for the BP + about the same to craft it (30k to 40k generally in credits, so not much of a difference)