Pc 16.9.0: Excalibur Feedback Megathread

[SomeCrackHead]

oh yea and i forgot to mention how his radial blind also blinds us looking at the screen, this a serious issue, i can confirm it, the stress on the eyes is real, you don't feel it untill your eyes become sensitive to stress. i no longer want it to be fixed for just his passive radial blind, i want it fixed for #2 too seing as i spammed that even more.

Edited June 22, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[StonedMakak]

solo means you are getting less enemies. get a squad of 4, with people who barely got CC, and basically means you are on your own without the help of others. that's when business gets serious and you get that  big crowd of enemies that you have to deal with all on your own along with a teammate in need of a res. that is what happened to me, and i sure as hell went through too many risks, some situations succeding in killing the crowds, some situations i couldn't due to one-shots. 

 

with that said, i was able to compare the struggle with this and ash as i used him before excal, nothing beats invisibility (rendering ALL enemies "helpless" to you according to its duration) and with him i don't have to use perma channeling except for when i need it.

but with excalibur? i just know these nullifiers means bad, i put that channeling even if it cost me 10 energy per hit (rank 1) still died trying to kshwoosh kshwooosh him fast before the crewman came with his shotgun from the left to one-shot me. 

 

also, i'm not gona escape when i see a nullifier unlike the videos i've seen in solo. besides, escaping was nearly impossible with all the crowds left and right, it's nothing like solo.

 

@tris, dont worry if they use weapons, if they have weapons that just means they're outside their ulti and can't facetank, but ofcourse, unless that tonkor misses, it does its job all the time. what you should ask them to do is going in t4 survival with a squad of 4x, valkyrs or loki's or something that rarely disarms and can't CC for you

 

Similarly, I can say that you should go to T4 with four guys using just primaries and no abilities whatsoever, and then say that primaries are underpowered. Ruling out CC is gimping yourself, of course you will have harder time and worst results than a team that uses CC. 

 

This is a deeper issue with how scaling works. All endgame is CC-dependent, that's the problem with it, you either combine hard CC from different frames or you get OHK. Taking 4 Hydroids or Nekros(es?) for a long survival run won't end well too. 

 

I don't think we should buff survivability to a point when a frame becomes independent of CC, at least in current state of the fake endgame we have. It would be completely unbalanced if Excal could just do without CC whereas all other frames rely on it. 

 

And your right - nothing beats invisibility. I wonder if it is a good thing?  

 

oh yea and i forgot to mention how his radial blind also blinds us looking at the screen, this a serious issue, i can confirm it, the stress on the eyes is real, you don't feel it untill your eyes become sensitive to stress. i no longer want it to be fixed for just his passive radial blind, i want it fixed for #2 too seing as i spammed that even more.

 

Completely agree. 

[Ishki88]

Single play Use only EB don't bring anything but a melee and no sentinels just a melee and show me the survability in the skill?

 

 

Bet.  40 minute run.

>Could of went longer, but Lotus eyes were about to pop out :^) 

>Dragon key handicap

>Stayed in ULT the entire time.  When I reached 100 energy, I used a sentry to restore.  Have to love Primes in Void :^)

 

>Ironically, I died twice before hitting 20 minutes, I should of warmed up.  First Death....lol..first death was because I killed myself while trying to restore my energy and the sentry laser tagged me in the process XD  I forgot to destroy the top that enables the sentry to spin.

 

>Second death, I was not paying attention to my energy when ambushing the enemy while channeling.  Used up all my energy making me vulnerable for attack.  This is what happens when you're not paying attention.  Well when you're paying attention to damage numbers and not your surroundings.  I tend to do this a lot.  My own character flaw.

 

>I did get dispelled after 20 minutes though.  I rolled and slash dashed out of the point of conflict and re-casted my ability. I was in the circular room and a Nullifier dropped down from the second floor right above me.  Luckily we were facing back 2 back and he was defying the laws of the spine to aim at me.

 

At the 39 minute mark I was able to take many Bombard rockets to the face and still survive.  I am fully aware Nullifiers are capable of 1 shotting you at the 40 minute mark.  This is why it's important to focus on your surroundings. 

 

Check out spoilers for screenshots:

 

 

Edit:  Notice CryvernX did in fact get more kills than me.  Difference is I'm only using a Skana from start to finish.  Also notice my Kubrow didn't even get 3% of my kills.  

 

Also I wonder if Energy Slash deaths count as melee kills.

Edited June 25, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed provoking comments/added spoilers

[CryvernX]

A 4th skill is meant to be a massive damage boost that either kills all enemies at once or you have a 4th that gives a lot of cc/survivability or you have a bit of both meaning not as much damage as a damage forth and not as much as survivability as a survivability 4th

Nova has damage and cc in her 4th / trinity has survivability in her 4th it gives damage reduction and full health to a whole team

Using one skill is proving that it does not require other skills to stay good same with weapons if your killing worse than normal weapons it makes the skill less effective for what it should be/do

Most frames can easily make it to higher levels due to there skills and others have a much much harder time

If we are using your logic then Excalibur and any frame that comes out and has been out does not need buffs in anyway.

exactly. he doesnt need buffs. and all 4th abilities shouldnt turn  easy mode on

[CryvernX]

solo means you are getting less enemies. get a squad of 4, with people who barely got CC, and basically means you are on your own without the help of others. that's when business gets serious and you get that  big crowd of enemies that you have to deal with all on your own along with a teammate in need of a res. that is what happened to me, and i sure as hell went through too many risks, some situations succeding in killing the crowds, some situations i couldn't due to one-shots. 

 

with that said, i was able to compare the struggle with this and ash as i used him before excal, nothing beats invisibility (rendering ALL enemies "helpless" to you according to its duration) and with him i don't have to use perma channeling except for when i need it.

but with excalibur? i just know these nullifiers means bad, i put that channeling even if it cost me 10 energy per hit (rank 1) still died trying to kshwoosh kshwooosh him fast before the crewman came with his shotgun from the left to one-shot me. 

 

also, i'm not gona escape when i see a nullifier unlike the videos i've seen in solo. besides, escaping was nearly impossible with all the crowds left and right, it's nothing like solo.

 

@tris, dont worry if they use weapons, if they have weapons that just means they're outside their ulti and can't facetank, but ofcourse, unless that tonkor misses, it does its job all the time. what you should ask them to do is going in t4 survival with a squad of 4x, valkyrs or loki's or something that rarely disarms and can't CC for you

my team was another excalibur, me as excalibur, mesa and chroma

[CryvernX]

 

Bet.  40 minute run.

>Could of went longer, but Lotus eyes were about to pop out :^) 

>Dragon key handicap

>Stayed in ULT the entire time.  When I reached 100 energy, I used a sentry to restore.  Have to love Primes in Void :^)

 

>Ironically, I died twice before hitting 20 minutes, I should of warmed up.  First Death....lol..first death was because I killed myself while trying to restore my energy and the sentry laser tagged me in the process XD  I forgot to destroy the top that enables the sentry to spin.

 

>Second death, I was not paying attention to my energy when ambushing the enemy while channeling.  Used up all my energy making me vulnerable for attack.  This is what happens when you're not paying attention.  Well when you're paying attention to damage numbers and not your surroundings.  I tend to do this a lot.  My own character flaw.

 

>I did get dispelled after 20 minutes though.  I rolled and slash dashed out of the point of conflict and re-casted my ability. I was in the circular room and a Nullifier dropped down from the second floor right above me.  Luckily we were facing back 2 back and he was defying the laws of the spine to aim at me.

 

At the 39 minute mark I was able to take many Bombard rockets to the face and still survive.  I am fully aware Nullifiers are capable of 1 shotting you at the 40 minute mark.  This is why it's important to focus on your surroundings.

 

Check out spoilers for screenshots: 

 

Edit:  Notice CryvernX did in fact get more kills than me.  Difference is I'm only using a Skana from start to finish.  Also notice my Kubrow didn't even get 3% of my kills.  

 

Also I wonder if Energy Slash deaths count as melee kills.

 

 

 

 

Good job!. nice excalibur too

[Ishki88]

Good job!. nice excalibur too

ty sir, I'm awaiting more challenges to shut down naysayers :^)

 

 

Until then they have to show n' prove or be cased into the void

[tris1]

Going 50m + with just one ability and nothing else would suggest that the ability is too strong.

that can be compared to so many abilities in game then which would suggest they need nerfing

 

 

Similarly, I can say that you should go to T4 with four guys using just primaries and no abilities whatsoever, and then say that primaries are underpowered. Ruling out CC is gimping yourself, of course you will have harder time and worst results than a team that uses CC. 

 

This is a deeper issue with how scaling works. All endgame is CC-dependent, that's the problem with it, you either combine hard CC from different frames or you get OHK. Taking 4 Hydroids or Nekros(es?) for a long survival run won't end well too. 

 

I don't think we should buff survivability to a point when a frame becomes independent of CC, at least in current state of the fake endgame we have. It would be completely unbalanced if Excal could just do without CC whereas all other frames rely on it. 

 

And your right - nothing beats invisibility. I wonder if it is a good thing?  

 

 

Completely agree. 

yes cc is the best option in end game and this obviously means they can go to high levels more easily than other frames. there are frames that make the game easier and then there are frames that make the game not easy that's just wrong all frames should be balanced around the level that we are meant to go up to and not any further. Every frame should have damage/mobility/deffense/cc skills

 

granted I can go to 50 mins or further if I tried but it totally depends on what frame I use that gives how much skill I need to use or relies on the ability's of that frame. a loki player will have to use less skill than say a nekros this is where the game is unbalanced and either they make everyframe capable or reaching the same level with the same skill or they need to rebalance enemies and frames

[CryvernX]

that can be compared to so many abilities in game then which would suggest they need nerfing

 

 

yes cc is the best option in end game and this obviously means they can go to high levels more easily than other frames. there are frames that make the game easier and then there are frames that make the game not easy that's just wrong all frames should be balanced around the level that we are meant to go up to and not any further. Every frame should have damage/mobility/deffense/cc skills

 

granted I can go to 50 mins or further if I tried but it totally depends on what frame I use that gives how much skill I need to use or relies on the ability's of that frame. a loki player will have to use less skill than say a nekros this is where the game is unbalanced and either they make everyframe capable or reaching the same level with the same skill or they need to rebalance enemies and frames

but this is not about excalibur as a frame, this is a general problem. me and other players already proved that he is a strong frame atm. actually he can kill stuff that most weapons struggle.  killing lvl 120 eximus in seconds is something most weapons cant do. loki may have an easy time getting to the 45 min mark, but after that. he will get less life support because armor and health scaling, eb does alot of damage, and gives you some nice survivability, he has a spammable cc. mobility. what else do you want really, if you want easier than that play another frame, dont try to make excalibur the new trinity, because some of us dont like easy or godmode

[tris1]

a video ?

 

 

no matter how many times i radial blind there's always some dude shooting and its @(*()$ annoying

that's because of the LOS as its an unreliable cc skill

 

he still needs some utility for better survivability 

agreed if other frames do why not Excalibur

 

 

>I did get dispelled after 20 minutes though.  I rolled and slash dashed out of the point of conflict and re-casted my ability. I was in the circular room and a Nullifier dropped down from the second floor right above me.  Luckily we were facing back 2 back and he was defying the laws of the spine to aim at me. slash dash used an ability

 

At the 39 minute mark I was able to take many Bombard rockets to the face and still survive.  I am fully aware Nullifiers are capable of 1 shotting you at the 40 minute mark.  This is why it's important to focus on your surroundings. face tanking bombard rockets unlikely the proc will lay you on the floor open to any damage and the damage of there rockets are huge

 

 

no matter how many times i radial blind there's always some dude shooting and its @(*()$ annoying

that's because of the LOS as its an unreliable cc skill

 

he still needs some utility for better survivability 

agreed if other frames do why not Excalibur

 

>Dragon key handicap- takes shields hardly a handy cap considering he has 63 percent damage reduction on his health with steal fiber and shields have no resistance

[tris1]

but this is not about excalibur as a frame, this is a general problem. me and other players already proved that he is a strong frame atm. actually he can kill stuff that most weapons struggle.  killing lvl 120 eximus in seconds is something most weapons cant do. loki may have an easy time getting to the 45 min mark, but after that. he will get less life support because armor and health scaling, eb does alot of damage, and gives you some nice survivability, he has a spammable cc. mobility. what else do you want really, if you want easier than that play another frame, dont try to make excalibur the new trinity, because some of us dont like easy or godmode

EB is not survivability it has auto parry that only consistent at the front direction and cant even stop knockdowns. what you have proven is how skills get involved in the game and how certain frames will require more work than others because there ability's are different and are not consistent with each other. as you said loki can easily get to a high mark level but life support has nothing to do with his skills that's just proving his invisibly and radial disarm are easily 2 of the best ability's in game. as I said you can either have cc/survivability or massive damage or half and half, loki has cc/survivability which will not stop scaling

 

I said nothing about god mode and considering loki and nova and other frames can still go god mode it makes no difference unless DE start balancing correctly

[CryvernX]

 

a video ?

 

 

no matter how many times i radial blind there's always some dude shooting and its @(*()$ annoying

that's because of the LOS as its an unreliable cc skill

 

he still needs some utility for better survivability 

agreed if other frames do why not Excalibur

 

 

>I did get dispelled after 20 minutes though.  I rolled and slash dashed out of the point of conflict and re-casted my ability. I was in the circular room and a Nullifier dropped down from the second floor right above me.  Luckily we were facing back 2 back and he was defying the laws of the spine to aim at me. slash dash used an ability

 

At the 39 minute mark I was able to take many Bombard rockets to the face and still survive.  I am fully aware Nullifiers are capable of 1 shotting you at the 40 minute mark.  This is why it's important to focus on your surroundings. face tanking bombard rockets unlikely the proc will lay you on the floor open to any damage and the damage of there rockets are huge

 

 

no matter how many times i radial blind there's always some dude shooting and its @(*()$ annoying

that's because of the LOS as its an unreliable cc skill

 

he still needs some utility for better survivability 

agreed if other frames do why not Excalibur

 

>Dragon key handicap- takes shields hardly a handy cap considering he has 63 percent damage reduction on his health with steal fiber and shields have no resistance

 

 - NO, thats because he is not good at him., radial blind stops everything that is shooting you atm, you can use it while moving , reloading, while you dash while you run on a wall, in the air.  as someone said earlier, get good.

 

-you said it on your last point, health +steelfiber, also invulnerability frames while doing finisher let you plan your move, invulnerability doing slash dash. good cc via radial  blind, and auto parry  front damage, do you want fries with your order, too?.

 

- some players are only good using loki, valkyr and trinity. if you dont know hot to react to nullifiers this is player issue, not excaliburs fault.

 

-again. spammable, low cost, high range cc, that stops everything that is shooting at you. that can be casted while doing virtually anything. please step up your game.

 

-already answered this.

Edited June 22, 2015 by CryvernX

[CryvernX]

EB is not survivability it has auto parry that only consistent at the front direction and cant even stop knockdowns. what you have proven is how skills get involved in the game and how certain frames will require more work than others because there ability's are different and are not consistent with each other. as you said loki can easily get to a high mark level but life support has nothing to do with his skills that's just proving his invisibly and radial disarm are easily 2 of the best ability's in game. as I said you can either have cc/survivability or massive damage or half and half, loki has cc/survivability which will not stop scaling

 

I said nothing about god mode and considering loki and nova and other frames can still go god mode it makes no difference unless DE start balancing correctly

so you are asuming that it was hard for me to do it with him?, had a worst time with any frame that wasnt valkyr loki or trin. and no, 40 min is not that high, loki can do it but he lacks a powerfull damage ability like exalted blade, exalted blade can do some nasty dps if you know how it works, also irradiating disarm is in need of a good nerf. you cant compare him with a broken ability. 

[MichaelSD]

Most frames can do 40-60 min. The old Excal could do 60 mins to in solo too, his problems appeared in a team with a large crowed of enemies. And only after they intriduced LoS to RB.

Basically, DE just exchanged RB + sword (melee weapon), a simple system,  to a complex, unlogical mix of bonuses + limited weapons + melee 4th ability + whatever.  I do not call that an elegant or good design.

Also, Excal became a solo frame. His CC is still unreliable, so damage output is not ranged and it takes time to reach the enemies. Inefficinet. At least Rhino's CC is useful to the group.

[Ishki88]

but this is not about excalibur as a frame, this is a general problem. me and other players already proved that he is a strong frame atm. actually he can kill stuff that most weapons struggle.  killing lvl 120 eximus in seconds is something most weapons cant do. loki may have an easy time getting to the 45 min mark, but after that. he will get less life support because armor and health scaling, eb does alot of damage, and gives you some nice survivability, he has a spammable cc. mobility. what else do you want really, if you want easier than that play another frame, dont try to make excalibur the new trinity, because some of us dont like easy or godmode

 

Do you understand what he is saying?  I can't figure out his point?  Is he saying All Warframes should be able to do the same thing during same time and place?  Nova God Mode?  What are these words?  I think it's time to abandoned this thread.  Proof is already in the pudding.  

 

Nothing else to discuss but potential bugs we encounter. Slash Dash locking tweaks, and maybe RJ changes.  

 

>RJ needs CC not more damage.

>Slash Dash Cone/locking needs tweaking.  DASSIT.

 

Also there is a "new" bug where Excal can't use his weapons.  I think it's after ULT activatation, and you can't de-activate.

[CryvernX]

Most frames can do 40-60 min. The old Excal could do 60 mins to in solo too, his problems appeared in a team with a large crowed of enemies. And only after they intriduced LoS to RB.

Basically, DE just exchanged RB + sword (melee weapon), a simple system,  to a complex, unlogical mix of bonuses + limited weapons + melee 4th ability + whatever.  I do not call that an elegant or good design.

Also, Excal became a solo frame. His CC is still unreliable, so damage output is not ranged and it takes time to reach the enemies. Inefficinet. At least Rhino's CC is useful to the group.

lets geta 4 man squad, i will revive you gladly using excalibur

[CryvernX]

 

 

Also there is a "new" bug where Excal can't use his weapons.  I think it's after ULT activatation, and you can't de-activate.

 

this happens when you are not the host, 

[JokerVictor]

I am really happy with his rework. Slash Dash is an awesome ability now, being able to use RB mid-movement makes his gameplay more fluid in general and Exalted Blade.. well it's a freakin energy sword with which you shoot energy waves. It's awesome! Good damage, good range, movement, etc. He is just extremely versatile now and desperately needed that buff to keep up with the other frames.

To be honest I had a pretty low expectation, so I was even more suprised to see his rework being done so well.

 

There is just one issue I have with his 3rd ability. There is pretty much no scenario in which you'd want to use RJ instead of RB. Maybe for crowded low level enemies, but that's not a good way to "balance" an ability.

My suggestion would be to have the ability be changed to a sort of cleave with a 45-90 degree arc in which you shoot out these javelins.

On the # of targets for SD: 4 +/- Power Duration

 

There is a scenario where it's incredibly useful.... and that's using it to kill shield ospreys.  

[tris1]

 - NO, thats because he is not good at him., radial blind stops everything that is shooting you atm, you can use it while moving , reloading, while you dash while you run on a wall, in the air.  as someone said earlier, get good.

 

-you said it on your last point, health +steelfiber, also invulnerability frames while doing finisher let you plan your move, invulnerability doing slash dash. good cc via radial  blind, and auto parry  front damage, do you want fries with your order, too?.

 

- some players are only good using loki, valkyr and trinity. if you dont know hot to react to nullifiers this is player issue, not excaliburs fault.

 

-again. spammable, low cost, high range cc, that stops everything that is shooting at you. that can be casted while doing virtually anything. please step up your game.

 

 

 

 

so you are asuming that it was hard for me to do it with him?, had a worst time with any frame that wasnt valkyr loki or trin. and no, 40 min is not that high, loki can do it but he lacks a powerfull damage ability like exalted blade, exalted blade can do some nasty dps if you know how it works, also irradiating disarm is in need of a good nerf. you cant compare him with a broken ability. 

 

-already answered this.

Nope radial blind is unreliable it s not a granted 100 per cent blind it has a buggy LOS- step up my game when they nerfed a skill that doesn't work correctly don't make me laugh either the skill works 100 percent or gets worked on. Enemies still find you if you use non silence weapons. that high range CC will not work for high range unless your in a wide open area where the game isn't all the time so another flaw while even bid rooms will not blind every enemy in bunches or behind the tiniest wall or block even though you see them.

 

auto parry works fine for the front however does not block knockdowns melee frame ?

slash dash does not make you invincible you can still get damage during the skill

 

radial disarm has been like that for ages and until DE says otherwise it stays in the game making it unbalanced meaning you don't go making frames that are balanced then some are not

 

any one can use a loki its invisibly is no skill needed at all same with disarm all you got to do is run around or go invisibly

[CryvernX]

Nope radial blind is unreliable it s not a granted 100 per cent blind it has a buggy LOS- step up my game when they nerfed a skill that doesn't work correctly don't make me laugh either the skill works 100 percent or gets worked on. Enemies still find you if you use non silence weapons. that high range CC will not work for high range unless your in a wide open area where the game isn't all the time so another flaw while even bid rooms will not blind every enemy in bunches or behind the tiniest wall or block even though you see them.

 

auto parry works fine for the front however does not block knockdowns melee frame ?

slash dash does not make you invincible you can still get damage during the skill

 

radial disarm has been like that for ages and until DE says otherwise it stays in the game making it unbalanced meaning you don't go making frames that are balanced then some are not

 

any one can use a loki its invisibly is no skill needed at all same with disarm all you got to do is run around or go invisibly

and i dont want to excal be a "no skill needed" or a braindead easy frame, and im not the only one

[tris1]

and i dont want to excal be a "no skill needed" or a braindead easy frame, and im not the only one

there's a difference between no skill needed and a reliable frame/skill. All I have suggested is tweaks in his slash dash, reliability in his radial blind, obviously a rework in his radial javelin and a few tweaks in his 4th skill

[LoneWolfDriftr]

exalted varies on a single of dual longswords or nikanas cause my energy blade to scale up to about 5000 to 6000 points of damage per energy wave and when I hit them directly with exalted blade it does double.

Though it has fall off like the primary ad secondary weapons as well it happens to all ranged abilities on warframes now too.

[SomeCrackHead]

there's a difference between no skill needed and a reliable frame/skill. All I have suggested is tweaks in his slash dash, reliability in his radial blind, obviously a rework in his radial javelin and a few tweaks in his 4th skill

yep, was also saying this. i personally didn't say "he couldn't do it, 40 mins"  or that his rework made him worse, no, i appreciate how he got stronger. i said he sucks cuz other solo frames can do it better. but well, i could tone it down a bit as it sounded like i was saying he's a trash frame. he's better than past excalibur sure, but he has his flaws like mich and tris mentioned.

Edited June 22, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[MichaelSD]

Lacking reliable CC, it became a solo frame, which was not the goal of the excersises. But maybe it was, i don'know...

[StonedMakak]

that can be compared to so many abilities in game then which would suggest they need nerfing

 

 

yes cc is the best option in end game and this obviously means they can go to high levels more easily than other frames. there are frames that make the game easier and then there are frames that make the game not easy that's just wrong all frames should be balanced around the level that we are meant to go up to and not any further. Every frame should have damage/mobility/deffense/cc skills

 

granted I can go to 50 mins or further if I tried but it totally depends on what frame I use that gives how much skill I need to use or relies on the ability's of that frame. a loki player will have to use less skill than say a nekros this is where the game is unbalanced and either they make everyframe capable or reaching the same level with the same skill or they need to rebalance enemies and frames

 

I agree that all frames should require the same level of skill. My point was that what Excal can do is already impressive. And balancing against an endless mode is a stupid idea however you slice it. There will also be good players how will be able to go 15 min more than everyone else, and people will claim that it's because their gear is overpowered and it should be nerfed, or other things should be buffed. It's a closed circle. That's why we need endgame that doesn't rely on endless modes (hopefully the new star chart will move us in that direction), so we can have a benchmark for balance. 

 

Ultimately, what does it matter if frame X can do 10 min more of T4 Surv than frame Y, When they both can do 50 mins no problem? What is enough? 60 min? Why not 70 or 80? We can go back and forth like that forever.