I Died In Five Minutes On Mars-- Why Warframe's Difficulty Is Absurdly Anti-Fun

[StinkyPygmy]

New player have no better frames, have no better weapons.

 

For new player with unmodded mk1 braton, its a whole clip to down single lvl10 bombard, all while said bombard will kill them with 2-3 shots.

 

20lvl detron crewmen will burn through new player silly 300 shields in few shots, but then you have 5 more of them in same room and they dont die instantly since new player have no weapons.

 

 

My personal rule for a long time was to always have at least 1 ranged weapon capable of downing lvl 50 enemy within second.

New players also wont have a negative rank with syndicates. In the event that they are with players that do, well obviously they will be able to revive if needed and help.

By the time they're facing lvl 20 crewman etc they should have decent enough gear to handle it.

[H3RRD0KT0R]

If you're marked by any assassins it's not exactly a good idea to level both your primary and secondary at the same time, unless you have a really reliable melee, and/or a frame which skills could save you from any situation.

 

Anyway I don't think that situation is likely to happen to a new player.

[StinkyPygmy]

If you're marked by any assassins it's not exactly a good idea to level both your primary and secondary at the same time, unless you have a really reliable melee, and/or a frame which skills could save you from any situation.

 

Anyway I don't think that situation is likely to happen to a new player.

Exactly. Its looks like OP was just really unlucky and got hit by a 1 in a million situation that he wasn't prepared for.

[Davoodoo]

New players also wont have a negative rank with syndicates. In the event that they are with players that do, well obviously they will be able to revive if needed and help.

By the time they're facing lvl 20 crewman etc they should have decent enough gear to handle it.

Im not sure if they would, not unless they were helped by someone, or paid for it.

 

Then to even get that, he needs to farm, im not sure if you could even get to mars within first week if you werent helped by anyone or been extremely lucky.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Davoodoo

[NN13]

Timing,

 

Next time this happens and you are using a Nyx, time your absorb. Go into absorb state when you get a Toxic proc. Being in Absorb prevents damage from proc.

 

Here, you had  to use absorb for survival and not to kill.

 

Second, you should always have at least a good weapon, capable of killing assassins, with you when you solo. If you didn't have a good weapon, you should have moved from that area in this case instead of trying to kill the Ancients. Surely, Ancients are not fast enough to catch up with you.

 

This is where a skilled player differs. A skilled player is able to assess his power level before going in the "Rambo" style. If you have a good weapon, fight. If you don't, escape.

 

Moreover, when you go solo, you should always carry restores with you, both health and energy.

Edited June 21, 2015 by NN13

[GhostSwordsman]

I don't understand why everyone is trying to tell the OP what he did "wrong", the point of the post was to point out the screwed up 'difficulty' in this game, especially when playing solo.

 

I do agree, OP, the difficulty in this game can be ridiculously stupid sometimes, even at low/mid levels with fully modded gear.

 

I've run into issues with the difficulty of this game when playing solo, usually it has to do with enemy spawn mechanics and awareness behavior(becuase I like to try and 'ninja' my way through some missions), and it gets frustrating sometimes. Like enemy telepathy(one guy spots me out of the corner of his eye, or my shot doesn't kill him and instantly all 8 enemies in the vicinity know exactly where I am), and having one guy see me, die and then have a squad immediately spawn in the next room(sometimes in the same room too) without the alarms being activated.

 

 

I realize the issues I've run into are different from yours, but they both point out the same blaring problem; that there's an issue with "difficulty" in this game, especially from a solo stand point/perspective. Also glad to know that others out there see the issue and want something done about it, I was starting to think everyone liked fighting entire battalions 24/7, regardless of mission type.

[StinkyPygmy]

Im not sure if they would, not unless they were helped by someone, or paid for it.

 

Then to even get that, he needs to farm, im not sure if you could even get to mars within first week if you werent helped by anyone or been extremely lucky.

I did when I started. Granted the whole system was different then. But A friend of mine recently joined and she's doing decent enough even without my help. right now she's up to Uranus and her weapons are cutting it for any content she needs to be or should be facing. As long as she doesn't push into 30 min survivals of course.

 

Honestly with a bit of know how and understanding of the game there is no reason why you won't have decent enough weapons by then.

If you blast through the starchart and taxi your way across then yeah, you wont be ready. But thats on you.

Edited June 21, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[StinkyPygmy]

I don't understand why everyone is trying to tell the OP what he did "wrong", the point of the post was to point out the screwed up 'difficulty' in this game, especially when playing solo.

 

Because evidently we consider what happened to OP more a fault of bad luck and not being prepared for the scenario.

He was REALLY unlucky. Because all the wrong things were in place (leveling two ranged weps on survival, being marked etc) for disaster to strike.

 

I"m not disputing the game has its issues in difficulty (the game has a backwards difficulty curve). WF is hardest for newer players and easiest for vets.

But it seems like in OPs case it was just really bad luck and a very unlikely situation.

[Davoodoo]

I did when I started. Granted the whole system was different then. But A friend of mine recently joined and she's doing decent enough even without my help. right now she's up to Uranus and her weapons are cutting it for any content she needs to be or should be facing. As long as she doesn't push into 30 min survivals of course.

 

Honestly with a bit of know how and understanding of the game there is no reason why you won't have decent enough weapons by then.

If you blast through the starchart and taxi your way across then yeah, you wont be ready. But thats on you.

When i joined, after first week i cleared pluto and crafted 2 extra frames while having parts for third.

On my first day i reached uranus, farmed bps for ash and resources to craft it.

 

After u7 hit and mods 1.0 were scrapped, on first day in unranked frame, 100 shields/100 hp since we had no stats per lvl yet back then i cleared pluto again.

 

Tbh nowadays im not sure if i could do this if ive been given 1000 plat, maxed redirection and maxed serration at the start of the game.

[NN13]

I don't understand why everyone is trying to tell the OP what he did "wrong", the point of the post was to point out the screwed up 'difficulty' in this game, especially when playing solo.

 

I do agree, OP, the difficulty in this game can be ridiculously stupid sometimes, even at low/mid levels with fully modded gear.

 

I've run into issues with the difficulty of this game when playing solo, usually it has to do with enemy spawn mechanics and awareness behavior(becuase I like to try and 'ninja' my way through some missions), and it gets frustrating sometimes. Like enemy telepathy(one guy spots me out of the corner of his eye, or my shot doesn't kill him and instantly all 8 enemies in the vicinity know exactly where I am), and having one guy see me, die and then have a squad immediately spawn in the next room(sometimes in the same room too) without the alarms being activated.

 

 

I realize the issues I've run into are different from yours, but they both point out the same blaring problem; that there's an issue with "difficulty" in this game, especially from a solo stand point/perspective. Also glad to know that others out there see the issue and want something done about it, I was starting to think everyone liked fighting entire battalions 24/7, regardless of mission type.

I agree 100% that difficulty in this game is really messed up. But OP's situation doesn't point to that.

 

Difficulty is this is bad due to enemy scaling.

It's not bad because OP was playing solo, didn't have any decent weapon to kill one of the 'supposed' assassins, didn't have a restore and didn't use any tactics to overcome the situation, instead tried to go DmC style.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Timing,

 

Next time this happens and you are using a Nyx, time your absorb. Go into absorb state when you get a Toxic proc. Being in Absorb prevents damage from proc.

 

Here, you had  to use absorb for survival and not to kill.

This wouldn't work because you can't move in absorb. I would simply have been rushed by the ancients and been in worse position anyway. This would've amounted to a waste of energy and likely gotten me damaged more.

 

Second, you should always have at least a good weapon, capable of killing assassins, with you when you solo. If you didn't have a good weapon, you should have moved from that area in this case instead of trying to kill the Ancients. Surely, Ancients are not fast enough to catch up with you.

I had a melee weapon and had the plan to target a toxic eximi with mind control of that was what appeared. But three spawned.

 

This is where a skilled player differs. A skilled player is able to assess his power level before going in the "Rambo" style. If you have a good weapon, fight. If you don't, escape.

Escaping, in this situation, meant charging through the ancients as they were blocking the life support. Because of the absurd amount of damage I was taking, I had to slowly roll and couldn't afford to simply run as they were dealing hundreds of health damage per second without it.

 

Moreover, when you go solo, you should always carry restores with you, both health and energy.

Fair. But those don't excuse broken mechanics.

[Kostadin]

if you want to level stuff go for endless missions with a group and make around 20 mins,20 waves or 4 rounds

[StinkyPygmy]

When i joined, after first week i cleared pluto and crafted 2 extra frames while having parts for third.

On my first day i reached uranus, farmed bps for ash and resources to craft it.

 

After u7 hit and mods 1.0 were scrapped, on first day in unranked frame, 100 shields/100 hp since we had no stats per lvl yet back then i cleared pluto again.

 

Tbh nowadays im not sure if i could do this if ive been given 1000 plat, maxed redirection and maxed serration at the start of the game.

WF was arguably harder then. The dmg system made enemies neigh on invincible, they leveled up to 100 on a common basis and we had no where near the ticks and capabilities to abuse what we can currently.

You could manage to clear pluto in a week with those kinds of resources easily.

Well, as far as I'm concerned I feel the issue is more the lack of knowledge given to new players about how the game works. 

Hek, even a tonne of vets don't really understand the games mechanics.

Sometimes I'm learning new stuff.

The game feels way easier to me.

 

But I'll concede that WF has an &#! backwards difficulty curve.

[H3RRD0KT0R]

 

I don't understand why everyone is trying to tell the OP what he did "wrong", the point of the post was to point out the screwed up 'difficulty' in this game, especially when playing solo.

 

I think it has to do with how OP expressed himself, while the difficulty issue (too hard for new players/too easy for veterans) is a very good topic, the fact he illustrated it with an unusual situation (with some strategic mistakes) that is most likely not happening to any new player kinda led the discussion to a different point.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Because evidently we consider what happened to OP more a fault of bad luck and not being prepared for the scenario.

He was REALLY unlucky. Because all the wrong things were in place (leveling two ranged weps on survival, being marked etc) for disaster to strike.

 

I"m not disputing the game has its issues in difficulty (the game has a backwards difficulty curve). WF is hardest for newer players and easiest for vets.

But it seems like in OPs case it was just really bad luck and a very unlikely situation.

This is an extreme scenario, but it highlights a problem that exists and shows itself every time two Ballistas happen to hit you, while coptering, at once. It shows itself when a seeker hits a slash proc on the only shot it lands. It shows itself when three ancients and two mutalist Moa's spawn at once. It shows itself when a Nullifier spawns as an arctic eximus with two corrupted bombards inside. This is an extreme, yes, but it is an extreme that highlights a problem Warframe is riddled with.

I think it has to do with how OP expressed himself, while the difficulty issue (too hard for new players/too easy for veterans) is a very good topic, the fact he illustrated it with an unusual situation (with some strategic mistakes) that is most likely not happening to any new player kinda led the discussion to a different point.

I think this is fair. I'm going to try to edit the OP a bit.

[Blackout751]

...You should bring better weapons and a warframe with actually useful powers ?

 

They were levelling those weapons and Warframe, so obviously they can't bring better stuff. Nor is Nyx useless, considering she has Chaos - instantly removing a large amount of threat from you as well as Ancient auras - and Absorb - the only scaling damage ability in the game, which draws enemy fire to it, knocks down enemies upon explosion and deals damage to a large area 360 degrees. Sure, she could use a couple of buffs here and there though - Mind Control and Psychic Bolts are 'meh'.

 

It's fairly indisputable that no Warframe is useless.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Blackout751

[Dekallis]

Lemme just check off the number of mistakes you made to have this horrible experience.

 

1.You chose nyx to solo with while leveling unranked weapons.  Nyx is not dependable for this purpose. Nyx is primarily a group frame newbies won't have a nyx and would be better off in your scenario because all of the starter frames are better equipped to handle these situations with their warframe powers than nyx is. If you were running a mind control augment build that'd a be one thing but it sounds like you were running a chaos build which isn't really ideal for solo'ing if you can't kill things on your own effectively.

 

2.You decided to solo to level unranked weapons. Not generally a great idea to begin with. Normally you'd want to go to sedna or neptuneand do some mobile defense runs with a group to quickly gain your first few weapon levels then move up to ceres mobile defense runs, since mobile d provides the most time effective reliable level'ing outside of organized nuke teams in places like draco.

 

3. A detron crewman should never be engaged in close combat a detron is basically a energy shotgun...which happens to fire shrounds that have a 75% damage bonus against warframe armor. You had no business getting close to them especially in a nyx. Nyx barely has armor to begin with but it still counts as alloy armor so she still takes the 75% bonus damage.

 

4.A new player is unlikely to have offended a syndicate early enough in the game to still have weapons that can't handle them. So this argument is moot. More over your choice of MELEE attacking the VENOMOUS eximus units is suicidal. Venomous auto proc toxin in an AoE and constantly refresh it when you're close to them. In short you died because you walked into the toxic field and stayed there wondering why you were dying.The toxin of venomous units isn't by chance it's garunteed when you step into range. The best option you could've had here was to slam attack or use the flying kick knockdown to get a finisher strike to quickly dispatch the ancients and just deal with taking a toxin proc. though if the squad level was low enough you probably could've kited them and used mind control and chaos to keep them fighting each other. while you picked away with the drakgoon's charged shots.

 

5.Did the idea ever even occur to you to ignore the eximus squad?  Generally you don't actually have to deal with them to complete a mission depending on the mission type. You probably coulda just used chaos and left them there once you realized you couldn't deal with them. First lesson you learn when solo'ing is when to run away or ignore enemies so you don't burn through your revives like bad tissue paper.

[StinkyPygmy]

This is an extreme scenario, but it highlights a problem that exists and shows itself every time two Ballistas happen to hit you, while coptering, at once. It shows itself when a seeker hits a slash proc on the only shot it lands. It shows itself when three ancients and two mutalist Moa's spawn at once. It shows itself when a Nullifier spawns as an arctic eximus with two corrupted bombards inside. This is an extreme, yes, but it is an extreme that highlights a problem Warframe is riddled with.

I think this is fair. I'm going to try to edit the OP a bit.

I'm not disputing that WF has diffculty issues. But what you listed is either:

1. Mostly encountered by experienced players. Ergo, they have the gear/mods and experience to handle it.

2. such an exterme situation its kind of a moot point

3. not even an issue for new players, which brings me back to point one.

 

This is just me, but I honestly wouldn't even flinch at two mutallist moas and 3 ancients spawning. At worst if they were a high level I would have a rough time. But thats what high levels are for. I have more then a few tricks to handle that senario.

Same deal with the bombard eximus issue. Although I've never liked bombards, but thats an aspect of difficulty/ridiculous enemy design I agree with.

 

I agree, its just that YOUR situation was bad luck and not being prepared.

Sucks, but hey, thats not illustrating your point in terms of WFs difficulty.

[NN13]

This wouldn't work because you can't move in absorb. I would simply have been rushed by the ancients and been in worse position anyway. This would've amounted to a waste of energy and likely gotten me damaged more.

 

I had a melee weapon and had the plan to target a toxic eximi with mind control of that was what appeared. But three spawned.

 

Escaping, in this situation, meant charging through the ancients as they were blocking the life support. Because of the absurd amount of damage I was taking, I had to slowly roll and couldn't afford to simply run as they were dealing hundreds of health damage per second without it.

 

Fair. But those don't excuse broken mechanics.

There is always a way if you think. I told you to go into absorb only when you got a Toxic proc. Once proc ends, end Absorb, cast chaos, melee.

They don't cast Toxic procs the moment the previous one ends.

If the ancients rush you, even better. When you deactivate absorb, it will cause knockdown. This opens up the possibility of Finishers. Finishers are more than capable to take out an ancients with one hit,

This gives rise to another tactics. double tap 4 and use finisher. If you had a decent melee, ancients would be dead pretty easily.

 

You had a melee. But you should have realised that meleeing a group of ancients on steroids with 3 Venom Ancients in their team is bad idea.

 

If they were blocking one door, go the other way. By the time you come back, they would have moved from the door.

 

Assassins' are supposed to be powerful. It is not a broken mechanics. And you have been given the option to use restores. If you don't use them when needed, its on you.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I'm not disputing that WF has diffculty issues. But what you listed is either:

1. Mostly encountered by experienced players. Ergo, they have the gear/mods and experience to handle it.

2. such an exterme situation its kind of a moot point

3. not even an issue for new players, which brings me back to point one.

 

This is just me, but I honestly wouldn't even flinch at two mutallist moas and 3 ancients spawning. At worst if they were a high level I would have a rough time. But thats what high levels are for. I have more then a few tricks to handle that senario.

Same deal with the bombard eximus issue. Although I've never liked bombards, but thats an aspect of difficulty/ridiculous enemy design I agree with.

 

I agree, its just that YOUR situation was bad luck and not being prepared.

Sucks, but hey, thats not illustrating your point in terms of WFs difficulty.

It is illustrating my point--that difficulty in this game when it comes, is random and frustrating.

[StinkyPygmy]

It is illustrating my point--that difficulty in this game when it comes, is random and frustrating.

To be fair the only thing random about it was the RNG involved with the hit squad. The rest was all unpreparedness.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

There is always a way if you think. I told you to go into absorb only when you got a Toxic proc. Once proc ends, end Absorb, cast chaos, melee.

They don't cast Toxic procs the moment the previous one ends.

If the ancients rush you, even better. When you deactivate absorb, it will cause knockdown. This opens up the possibility of Finishers. Finishers are more than capable to take out an ancients with one hit,

This gives rise to another tactics. double tap 4 and use finisher. If you had a decent melee, ancients would be dead pretty easily.

 

You had a melee. But you should have realised that meleeing a group of ancients on steroids with 3 Venom Ancients in their team is bad idea.

 

If they were blocking one door, go the other way. By the time you come back, they would have moved from the door.

 

Assassins' are supposed to be powerful. It is not a broken mechanics. And you have been given the option to use restores. If you don't use them when needed, its on you.

I didn't realize there were three until I attempted to melee after neutralizing one. And ancients can cast toxic procs before the previous one ends--it happened to me in this scenario several times. They can also do it while you use finishers, which is why I chose to get out of melee range. There was no other door--I was by the spawn.

And I've seen plenty of enemies in games that are powerful without simply taking your health away just because. It is a broken mechanic because I didn't get hit with anything, didn't fail to dodge anything, nothing. The game simply decided I should lose health, so I did.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

To be fair the only thing random about it was the RNG involved with the hit squad. The rest was all unpreparedness.

The procs were random. The squad makeup was random. And it's those that killed me.

[PickleMonster21]

So hold up. You're telling us that you took new weapons onto Mars... okay, there's your first problem. You're complaining that you're doing no damage on a planet that's made for your weapons to have a few decent mods on them. If you wanna level up some weapons, try Appolodorus first.

And this brings me to my second points. New players would easily be able to get to 5 minutes at least because
1) Their weapons should be strong enough to actually tackle Mars. And if it's not, they'll have to go back to Mercury or Earth and level up while looking for other mods to either use or fuse.
2) If they have a platoon of Ancient Eximus' coming after them, they surely have the tools to take them out, Syndicates don't rank up THAT fast unless you exploit the system.

[StinkyPygmy]

The procs were random. The squad makeup was random. And it's those that killed me.

I wont dispute that toxic auras are not the best design but once again, easily avoidible if prepared and you had a leveled ranged weapon. 

You knew you were marked by loka, you were forced to stand in aura range due to not having a useable ranged weapon, you chose to level said weapons on survival with no back up weapon capable of handling the pressure of keeping kills coming, and you chose to run it solo anyway despite not having a reliable weapon or team.

 

Don;t get me wrong, I sympathize.

But in this case it was 90% you not being prepared for the off chance you get a loka spawn.

I do agree that toxic auras are horrible, although easy enough to avoid if you have the gear.