Hydroid: Ye Jolly Old Pirate (Rework Idea) [Warning: Long Post]

[Paul_Pianoff]

Hello everyone!

 

Back when U13 first hit, I was extremely excited to get Hydroid, because I wanted to play a water-themed 'Frame for a long time. After sinking hours into the painful beacon grind, I finally got him. I enjoyed him so much that he was the first 'Frame I ever had the courage to polarize (right now he's sitting at 3 Forma - kinda regret this actually, lol). But I always felt that his abilities were quite lacking compared to other CC 'Frames' abilities, so I wanted the devs to give him some rework love for a while. If a rework were to happen, here's how I would change Hydroid (provided with artistic interpretations by yours truly):

 

1) Tempest Barrage. Honestly, I think this is a perfect #1 ability for him and it doesn't need a lot of changes. There's one particular feature I would add that I think would make a big difference: TB should check for enemies who are not suffering any CC effect (ragdoll, knockdown, root etc.) within its range and lock onto them, i.e. enemies who are not knocked down within TB's range are guaranteed to get knocked down. If none such enemies are present, TB will continue to hit the ground in a random pattern.

 

2) Tidal Surge. Here's my thinking about the concept of this power: it's supposed to both provide CC like other Hydroid's abilities while also being his mobility tool. Following that concept, there's a few changes I would like to make to this power:

--- It should become toggleable - you will be in the wave form for as long as you have energy (I was thinking of an energy consumption rate of 10/s (affected by Power Efficiency, naturally) so you can both be in the wave form for moderate amounts of time while also not being able to exploit the invincibility you get while using this power). To accomodate for this change...

--- The speed at which you travel should become slower than it is right now, but still faster than sprinting speed to give you a reason to use it aside from CC.

--- You should be able to steer it, although to a limited extent. The direction of your movement is determined by the direction of your cursor, but for the duration of this power your cursor movement is forcefully slowed down. Think about it this way: you're a tidal wave knocking filthy Grineer dogs / greedy Corpus milk out of your way. Would be hard to control all this mighty force, wouldn't it? Hence slow steering.

 

3) Undertow. I think this ability should work differently depending on if the enemies are currently in alerted or unalerted states:

--- If unalerted, the ability should work identically to how it does right now, except with bigger damage and (optionally) the following mechanic: an enemy dies from drowning (or short-circuiting in robot enemies' case) if it is submerged for %UNDEFINED% seconds (yeah, duration not final yet). This will make the power more desirable in stealth gameplay.

--- If alerted, instead of being submerged into the pool the enemies are rooted in place and have their guns jammed for ~10 seconds, affected by Power Duration. If they survive being rooted, they are granted root immunity for 5 seconds, unaffected by Power Duration. This will make the ability more co-op friendly while also being (in my opinion) balanced.

 

4) Tentacle Swarm. I feel that this one needs most change, so here goes.

Instead of deploying the ability to a certain area, it creates an area around Hydroid (radius affected by Power Range) that follows him - I will refer to that area as "TS area" from now on. Tentacles spawn within the TS area with a tentacle cap of 12 at max rank (just like right now, affected by Power Strength) and stay where they spawn, grabbing and smacking enemies. If a tentacle is left outside the TS area, it goes back into the ground and a new tentacle spawns within the TS area. Each time a tentacle spawns, it deals extra damage just as it does right now.

Basically, I want this ability to turn Hydroid into a walking bastion of CC. I think this change will also fix one of the current problems TS has that doesn't allow Hydroid to be effective at non-Defense missions: you cannot recast TS while it's active.

As well as fixing that problem, this change will provide more customization to the player: one can intentionally lower the range so the tentacles spawn in a more concentrated area, allowing them to respawn and deal heavy damage more often, or one can increase the range to keep control over a huge area.

 

And that concludes my thoughs about reworking Hydroid. If you have any feedback or suggestions, please leave it in this topic! I will greatly appreciate some constructive criticism.

Edited June 28, 2015 by PhantomRUS9

[(PSN)SteampunkJester]

+1

 

Would actually use Tidal Surge and the Tentacle Swarm rework is pretty cool.

[Evanescent]

Well done!

[-CM-Aeon]

Except Tentacle Swarm i like this. For tentacle swarm if we do as you suggested i believe it may turn out as a WoF with different visuals. Still good thoughts on 1st and 2nd abilities.

[AkerTheSpjot]

- Tempest Barrage : Autoaim water jets sounds nice but

"The barrage distinctly resembles a salvo of cannon-fire from an old warship. Like said salvo, it is not terribly accurate, but can threaten a wide area for several seconds and an enemy can be struck multiple times." - wiki.

I suppose it's a gimmick, but even still, it can be effective and I like it as it is. Though my buggest gripe with it so far is how the water jets spread too much with range mods that even the AOE can't help it.

- Tidal Surge : I suggested a steer mechanic long time ago but it was for Rhino Charge, and honestly, it fits a "charge" more than a tidal wave. Still, I wouldn't mind if TS gets the change, it sounds really cool.

- Undertow : Any change to this ability is a yes for me

- Tentacles Swarm : YES TO MAKING IT AN ACTUAL KRAKEN

Though it doesn't need to follow you around.

There was an idea long ago that suggested the tentacles should "patrol" in a designated area, submerging and emerging in order to grab hold of enemies. That's still the best possible change to TS to me. As when you couple it with the ability to recast the swarm (removing the previous instance of course) it would feel like Hydroid's commanding an actual beast to do his bidding <3

But I still like your suggestion, either way, I'm pleased.

[Shiditso]

I like the changes you have proposed.  Some of my personal feedback, and with a disclosure that I do not run Hydroid very often, mostly because I do not like his current skill set. 

 

Your proposed changed for Tentacles Swarm seem spot on to me; most of his skills focus on being in one spot and dealing damage at that single spot.  This new TS would provide an ability that he could use as he moved about.  However, the skill seems to remind me of Ember's World on Fire technique, though I see few better alternatives. 

 

Undertow is just too boring and a little OP (imho) as you just press 3 and wait.  The new ability modifier made it a little more useful in team play, but it is also very situational (mobs actually need to wander into the puddle for it to be useful).  Furthermore, unless I remember incorrectly, you are invincible while using the ability; I think some type of damage should still get through, even if it is merely elemental (such as shock) or something.  Otherwise, I like the ability having different uses depending on mob alertness.

 

I agree that Tidal Surge needs a change, but again, I do not like the invincibility.  Instead, I propose a damage resistance while in the tidal form, but I like making it toggable and steerable.  Perhaps, when you run over an enemy, some sort of finisher damage is applied, but there is a 100% chance of knockdown and/or impact damage applied.

 

As for Tempest Barrage, I think less lag between calling in the air strike and the damage being done would help tremendously.  I do like the prioritizing that you have suggested, though, as that would make it a great CC ability, especially as the first skill acquired.

 

Again, I like the changes you have suggested, and any implementation of them would certainly make Hydroid a better frame, in my opinion.

[DaddySlimer]

Lots of work and well presented, but I like him exactly as he is, mostly.

 

The idea of extra stealth damage on unalerted for undertow would be great but you rarely get that close without alerting them. Perhaps if they were unalerted to you rather than the team it could work, they would all rush to slaughter your team or a decoy and fall into your trap.

[IxaoEclipse]

Hydroid buffs yes please

 

Proposed idea look pretty solid, though the TS seems a bit iffy to me. Hydroid has always been about locking down chokepoints to me, and Barrage and Swarm always reinforced that-quick knockdown at one point, and continuous stunlock/damage at another. Also, if tentacles spawned and respawned based on where they are in relation to Hydroid, I don't think it would work well since tentacles would only get a smack or two before getting teleported away. Maybe it could be that tentacles don't despawn? Or at least have a delay on when they despawn after leaving the main area, so they still have use asides from keeping ol' Pirate Man safe from melee enemies.

[Doforcash]

i think all Hydroid skill should be like an on/off switch

and by that i mean all of his skill will have unlimited time, but the longer you cast it the more energy it will consume (like your 2nd skill suggestion).

 

Duration mod will have another roll, it will make Hydoird 1st, 3rd and 4th skill do more Tic damage per sec.

 

Edit: Lol forgot to said, these idea here was not half bad, Like!

Edited June 28, 2015 by Doforcash

[.o.o.]

As the biggest hydroid fan in all of WF. i approve of this thread. +1 and 10/10 would use hydroid after these fixes or something along these upgrades 

[Paul_Pianoff]

Except Tentacle Swarm i like this. For tentacle swarm if we do as you suggested i believe it may turn out as a WoF with different visuals. Still good thoughts on 1st and 2nd abilities.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with it being similar to WoF. They will still have two completely different purposes - one for radial CC and one for radial damage.

 

- Tentacles Swarm : YES TO MAKING IT AN ACTUAL KRAKEN

Though it doesn't need to follow you around.

There was an idea long ago that suggested the tentacles should "patrol" in a designated area, submerging and emerging in order to grab hold of enemies. That's still the best possible change to TS to me. As when you couple it with the ability to recast the swarm (removing the previous instance of course) it would feel like Hydroid's commanding an actual beast to do his bidding <3

But I still like your suggestion, either way, I'm pleased.

I should've written in the post that one of the reasons I want to change TS's function is its CC overlap with TB. Think about it - they basically do the same thing, except TS has more of everything and has different visuals. The change I propose will make those two powers feel different.

However, if my idea gets rejected, I will happily settle for moving tentacles and a recastable TS.

 

Hydroid buffs yes please

 

Proposed idea look pretty solid, though the TS seems a bit iffy to me. Hydroid has always been about locking down chokepoints to me, and Barrage and Swarm always reinforced that-quick knockdown at one point, and continuous stunlock/damage at another. Also, if tentacles spawned and respawned based on where they are in relation to Hydroid, I don't think it would work well since tentacles would only get a smack or two before getting teleported away. Maybe it could be that tentacles don't despawn? Or at least have a delay on when they despawn after leaving the main area, so they still have use asides from keeping ol' Pirate Man safe from melee enemies.

Refer to my reply above.

 

i think all Hydroid skill should be like an on/off switch

and by that i mean all of his skill will have unlimited time, but the longer you cast it the more energy it will consume (like your 2nd skill suggestion).

 

Duration mod will have another roll, it will make Hydoird 1st, 3rd and 4th skill do more Tic damage per sec.

 

Edit: Lol forgot to said, these idea here was not half bad, Like!

I think turning all of his skills into toggleables will make him too OP.

 

Undertow is just too boring and a little OP (imho) as you just press 3 and wait.  The new ability modifier made it a little more useful in team play, but it is also very situational (mobs actually need to wander into the puddle for it to be useful).  Furthermore, unless I remember incorrectly, you are invincible while using the ability; I think some type of damage should still get through, even if it is merely elemental (such as shock) or something.  Otherwise, I like the ability having different uses depending on mob alertness.

 

I agree that Tidal Surge needs a change, but again, I do not like the invincibility.  Instead, I propose a damage resistance while in the tidal form, but I like making it toggable and steerable.  Perhaps, when you run over an enemy, some sort of finisher damage is applied, but there is a 100% chance of knockdown and/or impact damage applied.

I have to disagree with you on that. In my opinion, it's one of Hydroid's most fun features that he becomes invincible while channeling Undertow, and I'll be sad if it goes away. However, I do agree that Tidal Surge needs damage reduction instead of invincibility.

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

Would TSW still be active if I was in Undertow? Based on a WoF animation.

 

What I see in my head if TSW was WoF, if TB and TSW were toggleable, if you could cast TSW, TB and TS from UT, if TB had better targetting/(effect). 

 

Puddle

Cast TSW(draw bots to you with Swarm, any bot not hit by a Swarm, would get sucked under or rooted by UT. )

Cast TB to knock down rooted bots in UT.

Cast TS to move to next feeding spot lol

 

TSW= Tentacle Swarm

TS = Tidal Surge

TB = Tempest Barrage

UT = Undertow

WoF = World on Fire.

 

 

This could EASILY replace Mesa.... not sure if this would be a blessing or curse though.

[AkerTheSpjot]

I should've written in the post that one of the reasons I want to change TS's function is its CC overlap with TB. Think about it - they basically do the same thing, except TS has more of everything and has different visuals. The change I propose will make those two powers feel different.However, if my idea gets rejected, I will happily settle for moving tentacles and a recastable TS.

I see your point. Though I don't think it does. TS is better at holding a bunch of enemies, true, but there can only be one instance of it. It can be used to lock down an area but as more enemies spawn, you would have to use TB or Tidal Surge in conjunction to CC the new mobs while waiting for the skill to wear out.

 

Also, I just got reminded of Pilfering Swarm, would it be too convenient that the tentacles automatically spawn around Hydroid ? You could let the enemies run into you while standing still. I fear it would lead to more macros farming.

[Paul_Pianoff]

I see your point. Though I don't think it does. TS is better at holding a bunch of enemies, true, but there can only be one instance of it. It can be used to lock down an area but as more enemies spawn, you would have to use TB or Tidal Surge in conjunction to CC the new mobs while waiting for the skill to wear out.

 

Also, I just got reminded of Pilfering Swarm, would it be too convenient that the tentacles automatically spawn around Hydroid ? You could let the enemies run into you while standing still. I fear it would lead to more macros farming.

I see how Pilfering Swarm can be a problem. However, I think that the augment should be balanced around the power, not vice-versa. It may need some tweaks, though I'm not sure which ones yet.

[AkerTheSpjot]

I see how Pilfering Swarm can be a problem. However, I think that the augment should be balanced around the power, not vice-versa. It may need some tweaks, though I'm not sure which ones yet.

Fair point, though perhaps the enemies can do the job for us. Namely, the Swarm MOAs.