Dodge Should Not Be Bound To Sprint Button.

[Rabcor]

I'd feel way more ninja if i could start running without a moment's notice. But instead i have to hold down shift until my character starts sprinting.

 

Sometimes my character will accidentally jump forward in a magnificent roll instead of sprinting.

 

I'd prefer to have dodge bound as a quick double tap on a directional button (then dodge in that direction) or Alt, so that i don't have to hold down a button to start sprinting.

Edited May 22, 2013 by rabcor

[TehJumpingJawa]

Yeah, that artificial delay you have to introduce into your key responses just so that you don't trigger the debilitating forward roll..... AARRGGGGG!

 

Infuriating.

 

Hope DE do something about it.

[ArcSynder]

What's even more infuriating is that they used to be bound to separate keys. 

 

Please bring back this option DE. 

[Varelze]

I brought this up in the other thread but what should be changed is combining shift and spacebar. Hold spacebar to sprint, tap spacebar to jump, double tap spacebar to dodge ( dodge direction controlled by WASD ). Now make shift the crouch button and you only need to worry about spacebar and shift. The game should already be receiving key pressed / key released inputs, so it would just be a change to add a timing filter between press and release intervals to determine which action spacebar would perform. 

[Guest]

I also agree with this idea

 

not to mention the sprint key doesn't always work very fluidly

sometimes i hold down sprint and I don't sprint at all

I have to release shift then press it again (more or less than twice) to get it to work

 

i can deal with it, and it is what it is, but it feels clunky

Edited May 22, 2013 by Guest

[Loswaith]

I'd prefer dodge to simply be a double-tap function for the directional keys.

 

Though as an option would be best, while some other ideas could work too, the current sight/scope modifier to the dodges can be rather cumbersome.

[Cursor]

Yeah, can we get dodge as double-tap in a direction?  Because that's such a standard among games with a dodge, and I keep finding myself doing it by accident.

[TehJumpingJawa]

I brought this up in the other thread but what should be changed is combining shift and spacebar. Hold spacebar to sprint, tap spacebar to jump, double tap spacebar to dodge ( dodge direction controlled by WASD ). Now make shift the crouch button and you only need to worry about spacebar and shift. The game should already be receiving key pressed / key released inputs, so it would just be a change to add a timing filter between press and release intervals to determine which action spacebar would perform.

Nooooooooo.

Besides your suggestion making jumping while running impossible, the very point of this thread is that overloading multiple functions onto a single key is inherently bad.

It's a necessary evil for console games given the limited nature of their controllers, but on a pc keyboard we've got oodles of keys.

[Varelze]

You would still be able to, just hold spacebar to sprint then release and tap it again and you would jump. These keys need to be simplified because having to press a movement key, a sprint key a jump key and a crouch key is far too much to pull off movement techniques. 

[f3llyn]

I brought this up in the other thread but what should be changed is combining shift and spacebar. Hold spacebar to sprint, tap spacebar to jump, double tap spacebar to dodge ( dodge direction controlled by WASD ). Now make shift the crouch button and you only need to worry about spacebar and shift. The game should already be receiving key pressed / key released inputs, so it would just be a change to add a timing filter between press and release intervals to determine which action spacebar would perform. 

 

That sounds absolutely 100% terrible. I'd rather have every single function bound to it's own key.

 

Nooooooooo.

Besides your suggestion making jumping while running impossible, the very point of this thread is that overloading multiple functions onto a single key is inherently bad.

It's a necessary evil for console games given the limited nature of their controllers, but on a pc keyboard we've got oodles of keys.

 

This. In GW2 they made it so double tapping the WASD keys dodges you in that certain direction. The rage you get when you are trying to do precise movements and end up doing a dodge off a cliff to your untimely demise is unending. Luckily Anet gave us the option to turn that S#&$ off.

 

Now..as for what that person described. It sounds about 100x worse than the double tap to dodge in GW2.

 

Dodge needs it's own button.

Edited May 22, 2013 by f3llyn

[TehJumpingJawa]

These keys need to be simplified because having to press a movement key, a sprint key a jump key and a crouch key is far too much to pull off movement techniques. 

 

middle finer -> w(forwards) & s(backwards)

ring finger -> a(left)

index finger -> d(right)

thumb -> space (jump)

little finger -> shift(sprint) & ctrl(crouch)

 

Gamers have managed with this (or similar) control schemes for the last 17+ years(since Q1), why are people suddenly finding it 'too much'?!?

Edited May 22, 2013 by TehJumpingJawa

[Varelze]

Let's take slide to sommersault for example.

 

Hold forward and sprint

keep holding now also hold crouch

now hit spacebar

 

Why so many keys?? By default I'm using my pinky to hold both shift and control. I changed it so that crouch is now mouse 4, but that's still pretty clunky just to do this move.

[f3llyn]

Let's take slide to sommersault for example.

 

Hold forward and sprint

keep holding now also hold crouch

now hit spacebar

 

Why so many keys?? By default I'm using my pinky to hold both shift and control. I changed it so that crouch is now mouse 4, but that's still pretty clunky just to do this move.

 

Because when you combine functions of keys you end up making things more complicated than they need to be and the result is you end up performing actions you didn't intend to.

 

The saying "less is more" does not apply here. In this situation less is going to make people rage when they perform a nice ninja dodge jump off a cliff for the 12th time in a row even though they didn't mean to. But hey, at least they looked cool while doing it, right?

Edited May 22, 2013 by f3llyn

[Varelze]

Look I get what you are worried about and combining sprint and jump might not be the solution, but it should be tried as well as other solutions to streamline these controls. Jedi Outcast  / Academy was built on the q3 engine and those devs managed to streamline their controls and DE has said they want to bring back that type of gameplay, so why not look at the way they did it and try to work from there rather than adding more buttons. 

Edited May 22, 2013 by Varelze

[f3llyn]

In this case streamlining would be giving people more controls to work with, not less. I can't think of a single good thing to say about the system you proposed. Sorry.

[TehJumpingJawa]

Look I get what you are worried about and combining sprint and jump might not be the solution, but it should be tried as well as other solutions to streamline these controls. Jedi Outcast  / Academy was built on the q3 engine and those devs managed to streamline their controls and DE has said they want to bring back that type of gameplay, so why not look at the way they did it and try to work from there rather than adding more buttons. 

 

Specifically what streamlining are you referring to?

 

I played a great deal of both JK2 & JKA, and don't recall the controls being especially streamlined.

The one aspect I do recall is the combining of jump with force jump, so a tap gave a regular 'hop' and a press&hold gave a force jump. (which could be prematurely terminated by releasing the key)

While this worked really well (and was far more fluid than JK1's implementation), regular jump & force jump are conceptually very similar actions.

More importantly these overloaded functions didn't interfere with one-another in any way.

 

 

I don't think Warframe has any such conceptually similar actions that would naturally fuse into a single key press, moreover the dodge & sprint actions already bound to the same key DO interfere with each other FREQUENTLY. (hence why I hate it)

Edited May 22, 2013 by TehJumpingJawa

[Varelze]

Ya it is a bit different but if you were to hold down jump and run near a wall you would wall run or wall slide so they are combined. Also tapping jump and left, right, back would combine for a flip in that direction, whereas holding it would jump in that direction. 

 

So if you were to combine dodging, and wall runs / slides with jump in warframe it would be a similar streamline. The big difference as you pointed out is that jedi had force jump and no sprint. But like force jump, sprint would take priority if you are holding the key down.

[Churpy]

I honestly quite like the controls the way they are, they're very easy to use and I don't find them clunky at all, you just need to practice. Sure, some tweaks are needed, but a complete overhaul? pls no sir kk

[muccmaster]

I also agree with this idea

 

not to mention the sprint key doesn't always work very fluidly

sometimes i hold down sprint and I don't sprint at all

I have to release shift then press it again (more or less than twice) to get it to work

 

i can deal with it, and it is what it is, but it feels clunky

Dear god this. Maybe if they separate them then sprinting will work better.

[Cerebrum123]

I brought this up in the other thread but what should be changed is combining shift and spacebar. Hold spacebar to sprint, tap spacebar to jump, double tap spacebar to dodge ( dodge direction controlled by WASD ). Now make shift the crouch button and you only need to worry about spacebar and shift. The game should already be receiving key pressed / key released inputs, so it would just be a change to add a timing filter between press and release intervals to determine which action spacebar would perform. 

If you make that optional I would be okay with it, personally I am okay with the current system, but would like double tapping a direction as well. I use a game pad(360), so your suggestion would be a nightmare for me. Yes, I know that kb/mouse is supposed to be better, but I have legitimate reasons for not doing so.

 

ETA: I also don't like the idea of making a separate key unless optional, like I said, I use a controller. I would personally like to combine reload and "use" so I would have one more key for block. 

Edited May 22, 2013 by Cerebrum123

[Enot83]

Use something close to what GW2 or just do what they have done.

 

You can toggle on/off double tap a direction to dodge in that direction.

 

You can make dodge a hotkey which then the direction you are facing or moving is the direction you would dodge if the key is pressed.

 

This streamlines things for players who want fewer keys, this removes the dodge function from being combined with the sprint key, this gives players options who do not mind having additional keys (players using mice with multiple thumb buttons, or who have greater finger dexterity).

Edited May 22, 2013 by Enot83

[ZephyrFlow]

You guys know that you can bind another key to sprint/roll, right? Shift for sprint, other key for rolling.. right?

[TehJumpingJawa]

You guys know that you can bind another key to sprint/roll, right? Shift for sprint, other key for rolling.. right?

 

In Warframe? how?!?

[Churpy]

You guys know that you can bind another key to sprint/roll, right? Shift for sprint, other key for rolling.. right?

Nope. Sprint/Roll, same key. You got me excited :(

Unless there's something I am missing.

[Ryjeon]

Bind sprint to your primary mouse button like in Assassin's Creed. It's by far the most important game play function. Having it bound to the mouse makes it far easier to control your tap action so you don't inadvertently roll or not-roll.