Rhino Viable?

[Jaborg]

Hello guys.

First of all, I am a new player and englis is not my native language, so excuse me if I have some mistakes =) 

I like tanky characters (in all games) and I'm trying to build rhino, but I heard in some posts that he is pretty underpowered  and it will receive some changes. Is it true or I misunderstood? If it's true I will seriously consider to build Frost, who seems pretty cool. 

 

And an aditional question, what build do you reccomend me for Excalibur (considering that I like pretty tanky characters) and which weapons are cool on him?

 

Thanks you very much and sorry for my english =)

Edited May 22, 2013 by Jaborg

[dragonboss]

The tanks are Frost and (formerly) Rhino. The change to Rhino's only tank ability was quite severe, and he's no longer pure tank like he used to be. Exacalibur is not really tanky either. Trinity is more tanky, and maybe Saryn.

[noveltyhero]

First of all do not go by what other people say. Rhino HAS been nerfed but that does not make him weak. He is still very fun to play and has a greater mobilitg than frost. I highly recommend playing with rhino.

[Xoxile]

Lots of changes are on their way. It is beta. So don't expect anything to stay the way they are now. But for for rhino he is being reworked right now. He might get better he might get worse. Frost is pretty good for ranged tanking right now.

[OriKlein]

Hello guys.

First of all, I am a new player and englis is not my native language, so excuse me if I have some mistakes =) 

I like tanky characters (in all games) and I'm trying to build rhino, but I heard in some posts that he is pretty underpowered  and it will receive some changes. Is it true or I misunderstood? If it's true I will seriously consider to build Frost, who seems pretty cool.

Greetings.

Welcome to the game and congratulations on your first forum post!

Rhino has indeed ceased being a viable tank and is expected to be undergoing some unknown changes.

Frost comes highly recommended.

Best Regards,

[Jaborg]

Wow, that's right, this is a beta XD all of them will be probably changed...

Well I think 'll take rhino, just because his look is OP. Thank you all 

[OrtuOcelot]

First of all do not go by what other people say. Rhino HAS been nerfed but that does not make him weak. He is still very fun to play and has a greater mobilitg than frost. I highly recommend playing with rhino.

"Greater mobility"? Their sprint speed are the same, if anything I felt Rhino slower than Frost myself.

@OP, I think it will essentially come down to your play style. Frost can tank, be offensive as well as defensive, Rhino's more of a "head-on" take, damage resistance and some crowd control abilities. They're both fun and different in some ways, you should go for whichever and then try the other and see what you like best, too. Plus nerfs don't make a frame useless, people throw fits because they take something they like away from them, just like a kid will whine if they don't let him/her watch cartoons. So yep, shouldn't listen to them, try it yourself.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

"Greater mobility"? Their sprint speed are the same, if anything I felt Rhino slower than Frost myself.

@OP, I think it will essentially come down to your play style. Frost can tank, be offensive as well as defensive, Rhino's more of a "head-on" take, damage resistance and some crowd control abilities. They're both fun and different in some ways, you should go for whichever and then try the other and see what you like best, too. Plus nerfs don't make a frame useless, people throw fits because they take something they like away from them, just like a kid will whine if they don't let him/her watch cartoons. So yep, shouldn't listen to them, try it yourself.

he's counting rhino charge, which does give him better mobility.

[OrtuOcelot]

he's counting rhino charge, which does give him better mobility.

I only called him out because without specifics, well, you get called out : p but I suppose, then again almost every Rhino, Frost, and now some Vauban I see, will have some stamina mods equipped. I know I had some when I was maxing Rhino because regardless of "Rhino Charge" he's slow -_- Frost I primarily tailored for defense so speed wasn't a priority, but again it all comes down to each play style and what not.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I only called him out because without specifics, well, you get called out : p but I suppose, then again almost every Rhino, Frost, and now some Vauban I see, will have some stamina mods equipped. I know I had some when I was maxing Rhino because regardless of "Rhino Charge" he's slow -_- Frost I primarily tailored for defense so speed wasn't a priority, but again it all comes down to each play style and what not.

yup yup. Rhino I feel should be more mobile (not counting skills, because if your out of energy, you can't be more mobile than frost base, unmodded) than frost as he's meant as the "in your face" tank, while frost excels at static defense.

[CubedOobleck]

Rhino is still a good tank against Grineer and Corpus imo, when you use that iron skin you can take 5 times the damage and you are still resistant to stuns and knockback. The problems is the infested because you can be drained and poisoned so you can't even try to tank those ancients. I'd say DE overstepped with that nerf when they made rhino vulnerable to enemy 'special' attacks, but the damage reduction per-se is acceptable.

Edited May 22, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Rhino is still a good tank against Grineer and Corpus imo, when you use that iron skin you can take 5 times the damage and you are still resistant to stuns and knockback. The problems is the infested because you can be drained and poisoned to you can't even try to tank those ancients.

The other problem is vs level 30+ you can be worn down very easily.

[OrtuOcelot]

yup yup. Rhino I feel should be more mobile (not counting skills, because if your out of energy, you can't be more mobile than frost base, unmodded) than frost as he's meant as the "in your face" tank, while frost excels at static defense.

Agreed, Rhino should be at least at 1.0, imo, sure he's a tank but he's basically "in the line of fire" where he SHINES, so why should he be so clumsy? >.< of course that wasn't an issue before the nerf, but now, players seem to not want to come up with different strategies they want their "easy" way tp deal with groups and what not.

 

Rhino is still a good tank against Grineer and Corpus imo, when you use that iron skin you can take 5 times the damage and you are still resistant to stuns and knockback. The problems is the infested because you can be drained and poisoned so you can't even try to tank those ancients. I'd say DE overstepped with that nerf when they made rhino vulnerable to enemy 'special' attacks, but the damage reduction per-se is acceptable.

I kind of agree with the nerf, vulnerability to toxics and drains because every toher frame is also vulnerable even wile using their ultimates, but I also disagree because well, for the same reason,he's the ONLY one, but I guess for "balance's sake" they had to nerf him and now "reworking" him...I'm just glad that he's no longer got his "god mode" perk >.< people would just spam that and really dig the feels of it, not no mo.

[TennoSkoom]

Agreed, Rhino should be at least at 1.0, imo, sure he's a tank but he's basically "in the line of fire" where he SHINES, so why should he be so clumsy? >.< of course that wasn't an issue before the nerf, but now, players seem to not want to come up with different strategies they want their "easy" way tp deal with groups and what not.

 

Other strategies? What, use his two duplicate knockdown abilities that are 3 and 4 times more costly on energy than banshee's knockdown ability and are sadly no more effective? Or maybe you can spam rhinocharge like an excalibur with slashdash, even though excalibur still does that better.

 

What you're doing is adapting your playstyle to make poor gear viable. While that's something any gamer would do- it does not change the fact that rhino does not currently do anything better than other frames and currently has no reason to exist in the game until it's fixed. Ember, Trinity, Frost, and Even ash are currently better tanks than Rhino. Banshee has him beat on knockdown AND has a high damage AOE ability- unlike rhino. Rhino charge was mostly used in conjunction with parkour to get around faster.

 

Rhino will be changed. Currently DE's considering returning invulnrability but only up to a maximum of 800 damage absorbed(and adding +aggro to iron skin), and while +aggro abilities are a good idea for rhino the low dmg absorbed limit for iron skin will likely be garbage for high level content that can burn through that in 1-2 shots. Expect more changes to rhino in the future- but as of right now- it's worse than every other frame at EVERYTHING and the ability to play with crippled gear doesn't mean the gear isn't crippled- it means you're adapting a means to make due with what you have. That's not a bad thing- but it's not something you should have to do.

 

Rhino needs a rework- heaps of viable suggestions have been made before and after update 7.11

 

I'll say it again for the millionth time-

There is currently no playstyle strategy that makes rhino more viable than other frames at any role. The one role he was good at- being a tank- he cannot currently do as well as other frames can.

 

@OP Rhino is not currently viable, don't waste your time unless you really need the Mastery points. Wait until it's fixed (I trust DE will fix it- but it'll probably take a few updates to get it right, or some facsimile thereof)

 

@OrtuOcelot you're &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp;.

Edited May 22, 2013 by AnalogAnomaly

[CubedOobleck]

The other problem is vs level 30+ you can be worn down very easily.

Before the nerf I let enemies cut through most of my shields before using iron skin, now the trick is to use it when you shields are fresh so that you can maximize that damage you can take. Use the D slots to their maximum potential because every rank of that redirection mod becomes 5 times more valuable.

 

I kind of agree with the nerf, vulnerability to toxics and drains because every toher frame is also vulnerable even while using their ultimates, but I also disagree because well, for the same reason,he's the ONLY one, but I guess for "balance's sake" they had to nerf him and now "reworking" him...I'm just glad that he's no longer got his "god mode" perk >.< people would just spam that and really dig the feels of it, not no mo.

I think that to be able to tank what's really important is that invulnerability to 'special attacks' because let's face it, what tank are you if you have to run away from, say a toxic? I agree that iron skin shouldn't be god-mode and that regular damage should hurt rhino a bit, but the skill should be useful against anything and to do that it needs to negate what makes each enemy a problem. Edited May 22, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[OrtuOcelot]

Other strategies? What, use his two duplicate knockdown abilities that are 3 and 4 times more costly on energy than banshee's knockdown ability and are sadly no more effective? Or maybe you can spam rhinocharge like an excalibur with slashdash, even though excalibur still does that better.

 

What you're doing is adapting your playstyle to make poor gear viable. While that's something any gamer would do- it does not change the fact that rhino does not currently do anything better than other frames and currently has no reason to exist in the game until it's fixed. Ember, Trinity, Frost, and Even ash are currently better tanks than Rhino. Banshee has him beat on knockdown AND has a high damage AOE ability- unlike rhino. Rhino charge was mostly used in conjunction with parkour to get around faster.

 

Rhino will be changed. Currently DE's considering returning invulnrability but only up to a maximum of 800 damage absorbed(and adding +aggro to iron skin), and while +aggro abilities are a good idea for rhino the low dmg absorbed limit for iron skin will likely be garbage for high level content that can burn through that in 1-2 shots. Expect more changes to rhino in the future- but as of right now- it's worse than every other frame at EVERYTHING and the ability to play with crippled gear doesn't mean the gear isn't crippled- it means you're adapting a means to make due with what you have. That's not a bad thing- but it's not something you should have to do.

 

Rhino needs a rework- heaps of viable suggestions have been made before and after update 7.11

 

I'll say it again for the millionth time-

There is currently no playstyle strategy that makes rhino more viable than other frames at any role. The one role he was good at- being a tank- he cannot currently do as well as other frames can.

 

@OP Rhino is not currently viable, don't waste your time unless you really need the Mastery points. Wait until it's fixed (I trust DE will fix it- but it'll probably take a few updates to get it right, or some facsimile thereof)

 

@OrtuOcelot you're &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp;.

Like I said, whiners are the kids in this community, insult me and disagree, doesn't change the fact that I have my opinions and you have yours. Sorry momma grounded you, kid, but it's alright, she'll make you feel better soon (: meanwhile, stop whining, and learn to use other frames and different strategies, stop being a one-trick pony and thinking you're "all that".

Edited May 22, 2013 by OrtuOcelot

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Before the nerf I let enemies cut through most of my shields before using iron skin, now the trick is to use it when you shields are fresh so that you can maximize that damage you can take. Use the D slots to their maximum potential because every rank of that redirection mod becomes 5 times more valuable.

 -snip-

even so, it's not that much more damage you can take, and when you have 7-8 enemies at level 30 shooting you, your shields will drop pretty fast.

[CubedOobleck]

Like I said, whiners are the kids in this community, insult me and disagree, doesn't change the fact that I have my opinions and you have yours. Sorry momma grounded you, kid, but it's alright, she'll make you feel better soon (: meanwhile, stop whining, and learn to use other frames and different strategies, stop being a one-trick pony and thinking you're "all that".

He made points and not bad ones either (even though I don't agree with all of them), you are the one who seems blinded by his own point of view. Also, what's wrong with being a kid? Moreover, aren't you insulting yourself if you can't come up with better points than a kid's?.

Edit - This is where I think Rhino stands now: his tank aspect was overpowered with iron skin, but just got overnerfed; he is not the damage type frame and I like that; his second nature is crowd control but he executes it poorly.

if you care to know more I did I full review https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/19790-rhino-feedback/

Edited May 22, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[TennoSkoom]

Like I said, whiners are the kids in this community, insult me and disagree, doesn't change the fact that I have my opinions and you have yours. Sorry momma grounded you, kid, but it's alright, she'll make you feel better soon (: meanwhile, stop whining, and learn to use other frames and different strategies, stop being a one-trick pony and thinking you're "all that".

Well arn't you just ghetto fabulous.

 

Sorry to rain on your parade... But.. I've got every weapon in the game except the braton vandal, skana prime, and lato prime and every warframe except of course frost prime(parts arn't out yet), and vouban (because unlike you did, i didn't buy one)  I'm far from a one-trick pony. And While I'm &!$$ing in your koolaid, I might as well note that I'm ranked higher than you are and don't spend nearly as much time on one frame as you do. =)

 

I wouldn't presume to guess someone's age, especially since I've been doing PC Gaming more than a decade before the world wide web even existed. So let me ask you, in 1989 when I was playing Legend of the Red Dragon on QBBS over a 300 baud modem, what were you doing? Had you even been conceived yet?

 

Sit down son, I've got to sling my epeen over my shoulder, wrap it 20 times around my lato vandal, and tuck it into my sock just to keep it from poking holes in the moon. You've got nothing on this.

 

I suggest you learn to take your inferiority complex out on someone who's actually inferior to you. =)

 

 

Edit - This is where I think Rhino stands now: his tank aspect was overpowered with iron skin, but just got overnerfed; he is not the damage type frame and I like that; his second nature is crowd control but he executes it poorly.

if you care to know more I did I full review https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/19790-rhino-feedback/

 

No, you're right, rhino's overnerf'd and his cc abilities are lackluster. I've participated in several threads here on the forums prior to 7.11 and after suggesting his other abilities be made more useful and a couple of which had suggested a nerf to iron skin. It's really a shame that DE didn't read any of them before nerfing rhino into oblivion as they had some good ideas to improve rhino's balance and utility, and as I stated earlier- hopefully it'll be fixed soon. DE said they'll be making changes in the next update- but i expect the changes they make won't be quite enough to bring proper balance to rhino, as his third and fourth abilities really do need a rework.

Edited May 22, 2013 by AnalogAnomaly

[Phoenix86]

This 800 dmg absorbed thing will serve nothing against monsters lvl 40+...

 

basically they given invincibility on easy contents and nothing in the harder ones, what a useless "fix"

[TennoSkoom]

This 800 dmg absorbed thing will serve nothing against monsters lvl 40+...

 

basically they given invincibility on easy contents and nothing in the harder ones, what a useless "fix"

enough people have commented with similar remarks, hopefully they'll read them and use a better solution when they roll out the patch, like increased energy cost and shorter time-limited duration. Truth be told, i'd be fine with a plain 80% damage reduction if it included immunity to stun/stagger, knockdowns, disruptions, and the damage reduction were also applied to direct health damage (like poisons) instead of just shields. The +aggro however should be added regardless, as it's a good thing for the rhino as a tank to be more effective at pulling aggro away from the rest of his team.

Edited May 22, 2013 by AnalogAnomaly

[Phoenix86]

enough people have commented with similar remarks, hopefully they'll read them and use a better solution when they roll out the patch, like increased energy cost and shorter time-limited duration. Truth be told, i'd be fine with a plain 80% damage reduction if it included immunity to stun/stagger, knockdowns, disruptions, and the damage reduction were also applied to direct health damage (like poisons) instead of just shields. The +aggro however should be added regardless, as it's a good thing for the rhino as a tank to be more effective at pulling aggro away from the rest of his team.

 

i completely agree with you, and i've wrote it in any possible topic with the intent to see this becoming true

[CubedOobleck]

i completely agree with you, and i've wrote it in any possible topic with the intent to see this becoming true

Yeah, unfortunately even though DE says they are always looking at feedback they only seem to see the shallow comments T_T

And when they apply nerfs or boost they do it with multiple changes at once so you can't tell what is helping and what's not.

Edited May 22, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Yeah, unfortunately even though DE says they are always looking at feedback they only seem to see the shallow comments T_T

And when they apply nerfs or boost they do it with multiple changes at once so you can't tell what is helping and what's not.

well, tbf, they can't really look through over 150+ pages of comments and try to filter out what's useful, and what isn't. (i.e. the dozens of "rip in piece rhino" (PRO-TIP HERE GUYS: R.I.P. means rest in piece...)

[TennoSkoom]

Yeah, unfortunately even though DE says they are always looking at feedback they only seem to see the shallow comments T_T

And when they apply nerfs or boost they do it with multiple changes at once so you can't tell what is helping and what's not.

True enough. On the plus side while DE does have a tendancy to overnerf (like they did with the shotguns) they do go back and remedy it later with a more balanced solution. I expect rhino will take a few more tries than the shotguns (sniping with the hek was hilarious- but it did need to be fixed. Currently the hek works as it should and the strun's damage falloff is also appropriate. It just took them three tries to get it right.)

 

The big problems with DE is lack of communication prior to implementing a major balance change- as that in turn results in the backlash that could've been averted by getting user feedback before-hand and perhaps some of these 'better solutions' could've been put into play instead.

 

 

well, tbf, they can't really look through over 150+ pages of comments and try to filter out what's useful, and what isn't. (i.e. the dozens of "rip in piece rhino" (PRO-TIP HERE GUYS: R.I.P. means rest in piece...)

 

You're absolutely right. This doesn't change the fact that threads on the matter with good suggestions existed BEFORE they released the nerf and all the headaches and spammy feedback could've been avoided by reading those ideas prior. Good content on the forums sadly often gets washed away by people calling others whiners and kids. This is probably one of the reasons community moderators were implemented. Sadly, even that has it's limits. and with so many users around and posting actively, it's difficult to distinguish at a glance the good content from the bad without the search feature, and some time. I've seen many threads start off like utter crap and turn into useful and meaningful discussions, and i've seen it go the other way as well. =/

[OneOhOne]

There's nothing wrong with Rhino, and people complaining about the nerf are all terrible.  80% damage reduction is more than enough.  Any warframe is viable when played well.