Rhino Has No Cc... Wait.. Why?

[Neogeo]

8 Sec is perfect for cc power, even on Nyx with minimal duration build, you would still want to maintain at least 8 to 10 Sec of chaos. I don't get why people want a cc that last less than 8 Sec. You basically stuck at recasting the cc the whole match with little time to do anything else. The chance of getting enough new spawn that could swarm you to dead within the 8 sec threshold is very low unless you stomp too early.

[RexRgisIocus]

Except, usually, you are sacrificing a portion of the ability, not the whole ability.

Let's take a look at Loki, generally considered one of the most balanced frames, one of the reasons being the ability synergy, without factoring in augments quite yet.

Decoy- Range, Duration, Strength

Switch Teleport- Range

Invisibility- Duration

Radial Disarm- Range

You can mod comfortably for two of these and ignore the third, focusing more heavily on one, and a little less the other.

So, in this case, Decoy's Strength suffers.

Now, Banshee,

Sonic Boom- Strength, Range

Sonar- Strength, Duration, Range

Silence- Duration, Range

Sound Quake- Strength, Range

Here, you have a little bit of an option, Strength and Range or Duration and Range. Most pick Duration and Range, for CC, and Range and Strength for Sonar.

Yet, still, abilities suffer but never totally.

And then, Rhino.

Rhino Charge- Strength, Duration, Range

Iron Skin- Strength

Roar- Strength, Duration, Range

Rhino Stomp- Strength, Duration, Range

Looks fine on paper, mod for Strength and one other, right?

No.

Rhino Charge is mainly benefited from Duration, Iron Skin is Strength, Roar is all three though Duration has a bit of leeway, and Rhino Stomp is Strength and Range but suffers from Duration.

So, now, we mod for Charge, Iron Skin, and Roar, Rhino Stomp is mainly left dead in the water.

We mod for Stomp, Roar, and Iron Skin, byebye Charge.

Modding synergy is completely wonky on Rhino.

Some other frames are like this too, sure, but this topic is focusing on Rhino, and why he fails with CC, and no, I don't think it's the ability is use timer.

 

As I said previously. If you don't want to sacrifice abilities then don't use corrupted mods. You don't sacrifice anything if you use the regular mods.

 

Corrupted mods are supposed to hurt you as well as benefit you. You want a 58m Stomp instead of 36m?  Deal with Roar and Iron Skin becoming pretty much useless. You will be basically turning off gameplay for 8 seconds in 58m anyway which is almost always a whole area of the map. Hell enemies dont even target you until they enter the 45-50m range iirc.

 

Want a Roar that lasts more than a minute (Charge will become useless unless you just use it for mobility since you will go way too far) instead of it lasting its base 30 secs (more than enough imo) or just using a P./Continuity? Deal with a Stomp that might be unable of handling an incoming wave of new enemies.

 

Using Corrupted mods should mean us making a sacrifice not just getting a freebie boost or it slightly hindering us. Sometimes so slightly it doesn't even matter.

 

[ApoMaTu3aTop]

What about that augmet mod? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Shrapnel Is it not worth the investment?

[(PSN)MrNishi]

...

Please remove the Ability In Use on rhinos fourth. It is annoying and unneccesary. Or you could put it on excal for his radial blind, and loki for radial disarm. His fourth is an amazing power being hindered by this painful mechanic please remove. :)

Did they remove the 5sec ability cool down on Radial Blind?

Prism-Blind is more abusable than Radial Blind as it does X-Ray CC and does not force melee finishers.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

-snip-

Except, you seem to be forgetting, that modding for all three, Range, Duration, and Strength, actually sacrifices an aspect of Rhino's abilities.

I don't believe I can say that about any other frame.

Duration hurts Rhino Stomp as a CC ability, and makes it largely only ideal for single targets, rather than all targets.

So, no, corrupted mods are not the only thing that results in sacrifice.

[Goddo]

They Secretly nerfed Rhino...

Yeah they really did.....

What about that augmet mod? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Shrapnel Is it not worth the investment?

Unless you conclave, no.

[geninrising]

Min maxing is the problem here not Rhino. I build for balanced setup in all stats and Rhino makes it 60 min t4 easily. The problem is too many people not being content with DE's design for a Frame and instead trying all this gimicky p#2w bs. "Iron skin isn't god mode anymore", "Stomp can't be recast", "Roar doesn't reach far enough or debuff enough with his augment". 

 

tl;DR Learn to play a frame the way it is meant to be played. You'll have far more fun and complain far less.

[Latronico]

What are you talking about? Rhino doesn't need any Duration at all. Roar can just be used again when it ends, no problem with that. Stomp need negative duration, because like Nyx's Chaos it cannot be used again if already active. 

And about Stomp, this is the only thing it shares with Chaos. Chaos lasts 10 seconds, during while enemies fight each others. Stomp hasn't this kind of effect, so 10 seconds are way too much.

Stomp knocks down enemies. With a full negative Duration build (rank 4 FE and maxed TF) it lasts for 4-5 seconds circa, that is more than enough (2 seconds of ability effect, plus 3 seconds for enemies units to pick them up again).

 

CC abilities that cannot be used while already active don't need Duration. On the contrary, they need to be spammable. 

 

About Roar, it lasts 30 seconds without any mod, 7 seconds with rank 4 FE and maxed TF. Again, 7 seconds for an ability that costs 19 energy is enough. When it ends, just cast it again. There's no need for Duration. 

 

The only abilty really affected by Duration is Charge. But it's not a Rhino problem with Duration mods, it's an ability one. Charge should be affected by Range mods, as Slash Dash. It has no sense otherwise. 

 

So, all these threads about Rhino should be, instead, about how the Hek Rhino's Charge is affected by Duration instead of Range as it should be. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by Latronico

[magusat999]

I think we should all remember when we are making these replies that co-op is not the only game mode. Taking damage away from an ability may adversly affect Solo mode for example. As it is already, the changes to Rhino has placed him off of the Solo mode default list. Making him weaker only worsens that. I remember when I saw a Solo mission the first frame I would use is Rhino - now I have no confidence in him. The changes are fine for "consideration of other players" but what about when there are no other players???

Edited July 7, 2015 by magusat999

[RexRgisIocus]

Except, you seem to be forgetting, that modding for all three, Range, Duration, and Strength, actually sacrifices an aspect of Rhino's abilities.

I don't believe I can say that about any other frame.

Duration hurts Rhino Stomp as a CC ability, and makes it largely only ideal for single targets, rather than all targets.

So, no, corrupted mods are not the only thing that results in sacrifice.

 

Without Narrow Minded Stomp just goes to about 15 secs which isn't that bad really (using both Primed Continuity and Constitution) and up to 12.4 secs with just Primed Continuity.

 

You could also just use a regular Continuity for 10.4 secs which imo is the perfect duration.

 

Ember also uses all of the stats btw. She is harder to min max than Rhino by far since duration actually hurts her energy efficiency during WoF and she lacks the cc of Stomp.

 

Modding for max range isn't actually very useful on Ember either since it kills her damage which doesn't scale to begin with.

 

[Revel72]

What Rhino is about now-a-days?:

I can not be killed. BrB I go make a lunch really quick. Every time when he gets hit while Iron skin on "Hue hue hue hue hue hue hue hue"