A New Way To Counter Rng Grind: The Grind-Box.

[Megakruemel]

It's more like a weighted drop system that can be reset by the player depending on their mastery rank. A player is guaranteed to get say 1 Ash Prime Systems after 50 runs, but he may get it sooner. If he does, he can then choose to "reset" the system. This gives him a new shot at getting another set of Ash Prime systems. However, this also resets all of the other drops that had been removed from the box as well. This is how I understand things.

 

@Megakruemel, am I getting this right? It sounds interesting. Lucky players will still get good stuff as usual, but those of us who don't have good luck won't have to wait longer than a set amount of time to get what we want. Sounds good to me. 

This is how it is supposed to work. yes.

[Megakruemel]

Main problem with this is it only works if you stay with the same group for eg 35 C rotations.

ie Loki Prime Systems BP has something like a 2% drop chance.  

That means your T4D C rotation box has about 14 formas in it, 7 Nyx Prime, 7 Ember Prime, 7 Ankyros, 7 Boltor Prime Receivers, 7 Burston Prime Receivers and 1 Loki Prime Systems.

Also this would be increasing the likelihood of Loki Prime drops so it's now > 2%, so it would look more like 16 formas, 8 Nyx Prime, 8 Ember Prime, 8 Ankyros, 8 Boltor Prime Receivers, 8 Burston Prime Receivers and 1 Loki Prime Systems

Good point. It would be the best case scenario, if we could just remove the drop from the box from all players participating. For example, you have a box with 4 things in it but your friend who is hosting has a box with 5. You take one out and you have now 3 items and your friend 4. However, this would require, that the item is still in your box at the moment of acquisition.

[Mxysptlik]

RNG is never going away

 

^ Mostly This.

 

Personally I think RNG is just going to get worse so long as people continue to buy Plat. I've called on boycotting plat since U14, and ask anyone not satisfied with the state of the game as it is, to do the same.

[Fifield]

Don't confuse RNG with deliberate grindwalls.  A 2% drop rate is a deliberate grindwall.  Dropping 15 Mesa Helmet in a row is RNG.

 

Anyway this is all changing, probably in 5 days.  Not much point talking about it until then.

[Yezzik]

Don't confuse RNG with deliberate grindwalls.  A 2% drop rate is a deliberate grindwall.  Dropping 15 Mesa Helmet in a row is RNG.

 

Anyway this is all changing, probably in 5 days.  Not much point talking about it until then.

 

I thought the new starchart had an unconfirmed release date.

 

http://embed.gyazo.com/8ef809bc72c28dd706783c6230e1ee3a.png

[Fifield]

Yeah, U17 isn't confirmed either.  I guess they're still struggling with the star chart.  Not surprising, they have to rethink difficulty (, where they put all the old bosses and where Prime parts will now drop from.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Fifield

[Yezzik]

Would have been simpler just to trim the current system down to give each tileset one of each mission type (including the Void and Derelict) and spread the prime parts and other goodies (such as some cosmetics) out amongst all the non-Assassinate nodes as non-RNG grind rewards (of the "complete this node X, Y, Z times" variety) so as to promote running all the available content without simply bringing the rest of the game down to the Void's level.

 

But hey, what do I know, right?

[(XBOX)Fiveinaline]

You've definitely done some thinking on this and if it came down to it, I'd vote for it.

Sadly however, I suspect this will become an unrealized dream.

[Megakruemel]

It is nice hearing some feedback but it is sad that it would take a few resources to program this, when i think about how the percentages are calculated.

It would be nice to hear more opinions at least or maybe an idea how this could be done. I had some thoughts but i guess that is where the idea kind of stagnates.

My main problem behind the idea would be, that every turn you take something out of the box you would have to adjust the drop chance accordingly. One idea would be, that if RNG decides to offer an item that is already gone from the box, RNG reshuffles to select a different item until an item is found that is not already taken, which would be pretty easy to program.

A different idea would be to just remove the percentage from the box completely and divide it by the remaining items, splitting it evenly but i am unsure as to how that would effectively influence the drop chances of one item. For example a more common item that has a dropchance of 50% gets removed. An item with a 2% drop chance would get the same increase in drop chance than an item that already has a higher drop chance. Would this increase the chance of getting it or decrease it?

Edited July 28, 2015 by Megakruemel

[Ninja-Kid]

This would drastically impact the economy in the sense that rare prime parts are practically guaranteed after X number of runs.

This is a big no no, since prices need to remain health for DE to keep raking in the $$$.

[Wolfssenger]

+1

Takes an ounce of brainpower to understand, but a very good idea

[-dicht.Amducias-]

So i have been thinking about some ways to counter RNG unlimited-grind-edition™ and i think i have come up with a way, that limits RNG without taking out the RNG completely and still does not allow to abuse token farming.

Token farming abuse you ask? Okay, let us assume a player has tokens in the token system, some users tend to bring up to solve all problems related to RNG. If a new prime is released, the player we are speaking about can just buy the complete set upon release because he already has so many tokens, which is clearly not intended.

Now to the important stuff: The grind-box, as i call it, is basically a box, with a number of items. The box can hold multiple items of the same sort, for example 5 sicarus prime blueprints, that everyone dislikes so much, apart from a few other items.

Now if you run a mission that gives rewards from this box and you get a sicarus bp, one sicarus bp gets removed from the box. This box will then contain one item less and thus allow for a higher chance to get a different item from the box.

If the box contained 50 items before you now have 49 items in the box and thus increasing the chance of getting a part from 1/50 to 1/49 on the next run. The rare items would only be once in this box, but the system tells you it is there and what other items are still in the box. You just have a 1/50 chance of getting it at the start.

So i guess you can already see where i am getting at. If you take more items out of the box, the chance for you to get the item you want and did not get yet, increases. So effectively, after running 49 missions, WHICH IS A LOT(49 times 20 minutes, yeah soooo fun for everyone), the chance of getting the only part you did not get is 100%.

If you got the item you wanted but want to farm further, in case you want to sell it on the market or for whatever reason, you can reset the box. This would be limited to a certain amount of times a day based on your mastery rank.

This gives a reasonable chance for players to get the prime items they want but without the extra sauce of maybe having to grind for all eternity and beyond and getting burnt out and leaving the game and hating themselves forever because they wasted a huge chunk of their time they could have effectively used otherwise.

Keep in mind, that there is huge room for adjustments, like giving rare items a less likely chance to drop, as it is now. however, this system at least guarantees that if you are willing to grind your mind into oblivion, you at least get what you wanted.

TL;DR.:

Change RNG to a box system, that has boxes with multiple items inside for every mission type. Every time you get an item from this box, this item gets temporarily removed from this box(and thus removed from the drop tables) until you reset the box. You can do this until only the item you want is left in the box, should you be unlucky enough to not get it until then, effectively making it the only part that can drop, thus limiting the runs needed to get a certain part to the amount of items contained in said box.

So in the end every player gets a different item after completing f.E. an t2 ext as a squad succesfully? Edited July 28, 2015 by W4vE

[Wolfssenger]

So in the end every player gets a different item after completing f.E. an t2 ext as a squad succesfully?

Good point. It's not necessarily bad, but different, and people don't like change.

[Wolfssenger]

This would drastically impact the economy in the sense that rare prime parts are practically guaranteed after X number of runs.

This is a big no no, since prices need to remain health for DE to keep raking in the $$$.

They could adjust the numbers( of items in the box) to reflect current dropit rates

[Wawazat]

It works, but I feel like there would need to be an in-game way of looking at each mission's "box" to see how much is left in there.

DE does not seem like the kind to show the box if they implemented this option. in fact they would probably fill the box to match the odds of getting each item currently on the drop tables at its own weight. for example (not actual values, just guesses) if the chances for items for t3 surv rotation C were: 1% ash, 1% volt 2% nova and 24% for forma, bo and ember each, then there would be a 100 item bin, with 1 ash part 1 volt part and so on. this would only prevent the possibility of being unlucky enough to play more that 100 missions to get the part you actually want but we would not get to know the drop chances and therefore we do not know the size of the box