I Love Scorpions (Death To Rollers)

[Gearb0x]

So, I know this thread's gonna get a lot of hate so let me lay down where I'm coming from:

 

1) I main supercharged 30 Rhino with spammed/near-constant IS, which negates stuns and knockdowns.

2) We've all only played this update less than a day.

3) I play on 3 or 4 man squads with voip.

4) I've got 300+ hours in, with mods and weapons reflecting that investment.

5) I haven't been fighting anything over level 30 today.

 

You should now understand where my opinions stem from, and why they might differ from yours.  Attacking me about my experience and therefore understanding are "wrong" demonstrates only an inability on your part to grasp the concept of opinions.  Opinions are how we feel about things, and they are shaped by our experiences.

 

 

I love the Scorpion.  It is a fun looking, fun to fight opponent.  I felt that every time I got force-pushed or get-over-here'd I deserved it.  It added excitement and interest to my game.  Having my positioning and fighting capabilities temporarily manipulated was great fun for me.  I enjoyed blasting my enemy to bits right after they brought me into their grill.

 

Unlike Rollers, the Scorpions did not spam their disables, or trigger them just by being next to me.  They alternated disables with machete attacks, and this gave me the opportunity to evade their assault or trigger a power.  This half second of control was a godsend for counterplay, and allowed me to pop my Iron Skin or Rhino Stomp or even Rhino Charge if I had to get away.  I also used it to charge an attack and destroy them.

 

Since they fulfill the disabling "annoying" role that Rollers do without the pointless permastun from basic contact, I propose that Rollers be eliminated and Scorpions fill their place.  Let the Saryn boss summon 3 Scorpions at a time, it fits her role as a matriarch and sister.  

 

Rollers annoy me because they're cheap and unfun.  They move rapidly along attack paths shared by no other enemy they spawn with.  They stunlock without interruption and always appear in packs targeting one person.  Scorpions are great because they're cool and fun.  They move slowly along the same attack paths their brethren have.  They cause one stun that couples with a position shift.  They don't target stunned individuals, and their alternating melee attacks have enough delay for counterplay using energy, bullets or dodge-roll movement.

 

So there is my ode to the Scorpion.  I think it's better than the Roller, and more fun to play against.  Ban the Roller, promote the Scorpion.

[Worira]

ho ho ho this is a good joke that you have made

[Volt_Cruelerz]

If you could avoid the hook if you're smart and the darn thing lost its ability to shoot through walls, it could be a decent enemy type.

[holdenagincourt]

I agree, they're better than rollers.

/damning with faint praise

[Gearb0x]

ho ho ho this is a good joke that you have made

Not a joke.  I encourage you to express where and how you disagree with me to lend your opinion weight.  If you've expressed that opinion elsewhere, just quote it here.

[Worira]

Not a joke.  I encourage you to express where and how you disagree with me to lend your opinion weight.  If you've expressed that opinion elsewhere, just quote it here.

 

Unavoidable hitscan knockdown.

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

IF you have a Rhino you should'nt be allowed to give your opinion on anything ingame.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Stormo

[BadAimbot]

It's good to finally see some balance in this game. Rollers were dominating the F*** you enemy slot, and now they have some competition. Thanks, DE!

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

Unavoidable hitscan knockdown.

Thank you.

 

I was playing solo a couple of minuites ago and one of them came out of no where, knocked me down and I ate S#&$ from all over the room.

[Gearb0x]

Unavoidable hitscan knockdown.

 

That is an argument worthy of Hemmingway.  Succinct, brutal, and effective.  Well done!  You've taken the argument in less words than I've spent praising your victory.

 

Seriously.  

 

None of the above is sarcasm.  I admire the power of well placed words and compelling arguments and rarely do I get to see both at once!

[FlanShark]

In addition to Worira's knockdown truth there, may I add the maxim that:

If an AI is going to do something interesting, make sure it doesn't have an average lifespan of 0.003seconds once it encounters the player.

Plus frankly I can't be the only one annoyed at the zany reference, right?

You get flippin' patch notes in-character and silly pop culture references in-game lol

[GrayRaven]

First off I'm annoyed by the roller too and maybe a solution would be to rework the whole roller and not totally kill it off.

Instead of just running through the player and triggering a disable animation it could "open up" and grab the player and disable him that way for some time. To get free either some time needs to pass or alternatively the player needs to melee some times or have one charged melee (even through I hate quicktime events normally I personally would find that acceptable). After being shaken off it would lie somewhere around the player on the ground trying to get up again, so someone can finish it off.

Another thought I have is that other player could kill the roller when its on the player. freeing him faster than he could free himself.

To have a picture what I mean with "open up" I'm posting a Link to a Pillbug from WikiPedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pill_bug

I'm not sure how it could work or if it could work, given lag and game mechanics but im just tossing a ball in the game here. :)

[Argoms]

I'd like them to be made sort of like left 4 dead's smokers- they can grab you and pull you towards them, but you aren't completely incapacitated until they pull you some distance.

[se05239]

I think the whole "Drag through walls, no need for line of sight" thing is.. well.. something DE missed. I also dislike the hook being instant hitscan.

[GrayRaven]

I'd like them to be made sort of like left 4 dead's smokers- they can grab you and pull you towards them, but you aren't completely incapacitated until they pull you some distance.

yep an alternative to total incapacitated would be slowed and unable to sprint and attack. but for the time grabbed still be able to move to safety while u free yourself or get freed. and yellow indicator on the player (like red in downed status) could tell other players "this player needs help!".

 

Just to add some suggestions to my idea.

 

Also i rather mean like the Hunter (to stick to left for dead terms) then the smoker. It jumps on you and Starts the said effect.

 

And to go on the topic of the scorpion. While i like her in general i think the instant hit-scan is kind of cheep.

[Twistank]

Well let me tell you OP that convenience is pretty much fun for the most of people.

From your post all I can see is that you found one of the new game features convenient and easy to deal with and the other is the opposite.

I know it can be punishing to deal with hordes of rollers sometimes but after some time you develop skills to make sure you never end up in too inconvenient position, may it be weapon selection, movement, power usage or whatever.

That is the measure of skill, not the need to make stuff more easy to deal with.

[Kyte]

Jesus christ are you a masochist?

[ValhaHazred]

If they made the dart have travel time I'd be cool with them. I don't super hate them, but they could use some improvement.

[Zhonatta]

I see where you are coming from, but respectfully disagree. This game needs more enemies that you HATE to face not less.

 

I absolutely love the changes to the Grineer. Just my observation, but they seem to have had their movement speed doubled and their spawn volume increased. This coupled with the new units make for a decently challenging mission on most accounts. I can say with a passion that I hate Roller Balls and I HATE scorpions, and to be honest one of the flamethrower guys can just melt your shields right off. The diversity, speed, and volume of the Grineer assault has finally made for a none face roll keyboard session. This couple with the new tileset. Cudos to DE you done good here.

 

The fact of the matter is no one unit is that hard to deal with. It is them assaulting you together that can screw your day solo, but you aren't playing a solo game and with competent allies you should be fine and still have a lot of fun. It is enemies like the rollerball that force us into depending on our other team mates to make it to the end of the level.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Zhonatta

[Gearb0x]

I see where you are coming from, but respectfully disagree. This game needs more enemies that you HATE to face not less.

 

I absolutely love the changes to the Grineer. Just my observation, but they seem to have had their movement speed doubled and their spawn volume increased. This coupled with the new units make for a decently challenging mission on most accounts. I can say with a passion that I hate Roller Balls and I HATE scorpions, and to be honest one of the flamethrower guys can just melt your shields right off. The diversity, speed, and volume of the Grineer assault has finally made for a none face roll keyboard session. This couple with the new tileset. Cudos to DE you done good here.

 

The fact of the matter is no one unit is that hard to deal with. It is them assaulting you together that can screw your day solo, but you aren't playing a solo game and with competent allies you should be fine and still have a lot of fun. It is enemies like the rollerball that force us into depending on our other team mates to make it to the end of the level.

I agree with everything you said besides the hatred.  I like my enemies to be fun puzzles.  Granted, most of their solutions are "shoot it in the face" but that's why I like Scorpions compared to Rollers: the Scorpion solution is similar to that of the other Grineer.  They have faces, Rollers don't.

 

Talking about teamplay made me realize another reason I don't like Rollers: they're hard to hit and unrewarding.  When I shoot a Scorpion off my buddy, its head gets blown off and it tumbles to the ground.  I can instantly transition to another Grineer target.  It stood right in front of my buddy and was easy to see, track and take out.  When I see my buddy get swarmed by Rollers I press an AOE button because shooting at them will take too much ammo, time and effort for a dinky little explosion.  I will engage Scorpions to defend my teammates, but Rollers are just bothersome and need to be taken down with the AOE key.

 

I recently polarized my Rhino, and running through Grineer levels without spammable IS did show me the pain of being dragged one way, then another, then another by Scorpion lassos.  I still preferred it to Rollers, since I was then surrounded by 3 Scorpions I could easily engage with my melee weapons.  Oh yeah!  Scorpions can be engaged by melee and Rollers really can't be.

[TurboMurderHobo]

You know what game had an enemy similar to the roller that was slightly obnoxious, but also really cool? Half-life 2. The rollers are nearly complete ripoffs anyway - go all the way and make them more static. Once you get close enough, they roll towards you. Modify the players behaviour and route with these; make the player take an alternate path thanks to these. Don't frustrate the player with spammy stuns.

 

The problem with the scorpions are that they're unavoidable. You're often punishing the player with no indication that you're about to do so. This creates frustration. You need to give them an indication that they're about to do their attack - make it a glowy leash. Make them charge up this leash with a flashy effect and a noise. You could so easily make this a cool enemy, but at the moment it's got some problems. Do it right and you'll trigger a "oh S#&$" moment in the player - giving the player a short timeframe to avoid being stunned would add fun.

Edited May 24, 2013 by TurboMurderHobo

[Flunky]

That is an argument worthy of Hemmingway.  Succinct, brutal, and effective.  Well done!  You've taken the argument in less words than I've spent praising your victory.

 

Seriously.  

 

None of the above is sarcasm.  I admire the power of well placed words and compelling arguments and rarely do I get to see both at once!

 

actually those three words are more than enough

[lautalocos]

I think the whole "Drag through walls, no need for line of sight" thing is.. well.. something DE missed. I also dislike the hook being instant hitscan.

yeah, the hitscan part is a problem with ancients too

[Kyte]

I see where you are coming from, but respectfully disagree. This game needs more enemies that you HATE to face not less.

 

I absolutely love the changes to the Grineer. Just my observation, but they seem to have had their movement speed doubled and their spawn volume increased. This coupled with the new units make for a decently challenging mission on most accounts. I can say with a passion that I hate Roller Balls and I HATE scorpions, and to be honest one of the flamethrower guys can just melt your shields right off. The diversity, speed, and volume of the Grineer assault has finally made for a none face roll keyboard session. This couple with the new tileset. Cudos to DE you done good here.

 

The fact of the matter is no one unit is that hard to deal with. It is them assaulting you together that can screw your day solo, but you aren't playing a solo game and with competent allies you should be fine and still have a lot of fun. It is enemies like the rollerball that force us into depending on our other team mates to make it to the end of the level.

People like hard enemies if they're interesting. See: The new Lech Kril.

People hate enemies if they don't give them chances to do stuff. You can't even shoot Scorpions while reeled even though your hands are free!

Just because they're harder doesn't mean they're better.

[Timmuk]

All of the new bad guys are awesome, keep it up DE, and dont give into the whines about it being to hard.....