Dear Devs: The Current Dojo System Is Making You Lose A Lot Of Potential Profit (Solution For Big Vs. Small Clan Included)

[Luxangel7]

THE INTENTION OF THIS THREAD IS TO HELP DE MAKE MORE MONEY  

(and fix the Dojo/clan dilemma for players)

 

Now before you go thinking that this is yet another "complaint" thread because of the title, please hear me out. I have two degrees in Economics and Marketing, and an MBA with specialization in General Finance and Management. I currently work for a multinational financial consulting firm in their department for marketing of international services and products.

 

This isn't to brag, or say that any of that automatically = "I'm right", it's just to establish that the purpose of me writing this thread is to highlight the very large marketing error that was made in this last update, bring to light the resulting devastating loss in potential profits, and provide my advice as how to correct and avoid such mistakes, now and in the future.

 

I really like this game, I think the devs are great, and I wish only the best for them and the game.

 

However, the clan dojo system should not have been released in its current state. By this I mean, specifically, the material requirements that are available for purchase: Forma.

 

The Problem(s):

 

Let me begin by saying that resource materials (ferrite, alloy etc etc) required for dojo construction suffer from the same problem that I will outline with forma, and could be resolved by the same solution I propose be applied to forma.

 

Currently a player who belongs to a smaller clan has absolutely no reason to spend the extravagant amounts of time and or money it would take to make even the most basic of structures, much less a complete dojo etc. Instead it is much easier to just join any of the very large clans and just get all the benefits without ever contributing anything. This, to put it mildly, is an ENORMOUS problem.

 

The result of this system is having a single product (forma) being bought a few times and its benefits being distributed among HUNDREDS of players for FREE.

 

Can you imagine If I could buy an Orokin Reactor and it allowed everyone in my clan to benefit from my purchase? No one would go buy reactors, they would just join a large clan and wait for others to buy reactors. Sound familiar?

 

This system, is not only completely flawed and incredibly limiting for smaller clans as so many have pointed out, but is also incredibly damaging to your profit margins on forma and this update in general. 

 

The solution: (applicable to resources as well, to solve the "scalable resources required" problem)

 

Everyone in a clan should be required to donate a minimum amount of 1 forma to access the benefits of certain rooms. Building new rooms should cost 1 forma.

 

That forma spent building the room does not enable the builder to access the room benefits as well. My suggestion is: 1 to build, 1 for the builder to access, like everyone else. This would give builders certain degrees of appreciation within the clan for their increased efforts, as well as be fair to the players and increase revenue for DE.

 

Edit: To clarify, you need to spend the forma to access the menus/research/dueling etc of the functional rooms. Once they are built you can still walk inside them and go "ooooo" and "aaaaah" without spending resources.

 

Edit2: In order to both add functionality and cater to all player types, a function could be added to this system where one clan member can use their own forma to unlock the forma requirements of a room for another member. This would alleviate any issues for both players who are eager to access dojo content but haven't found forma or don't have credit cards, as well as clan leaders who wish to help their friends feel welcome and part of the clan / promote clan allegiance etc. while simultaneously not costing DE any profits because the forma still has to be farmed / purchased in the first place.

 

Positive Results:

 

1) Instead of each clan purchasing/using a maximum amount of "x" forma, you would have every single player that is in a clan purchasing/using "x" amount of forma to access all areas. This is an extremely important benefit. Instead of, lets say, 100 clans purchasing a limited amount of forma to create their dojo you would have your entire player base (millions?) of players spending forma to access their dojo rooms.

 

2) Compounded profits: Along with every player in a clan spending forma to access rooms, you would have a drastic increase in the amount of clans themselves, thereby creating a second revenue stream of forma being used, as each individual clan must spend forma to build rooms in the first place.

 

3) Employing this system automatically resolves the need for "solo dojos" or whatever you may want to call it. Basically how some people were requesting, even in the livestream, some sort of dojo for solo players who don't want a clan.

 

4) People will "invest" in a clan they want to stick with. If they change to another clan, members will retain their "universal unlock" on rooms they have already unlocked even if they change to another clan. This will prohibit giving clan members who can kick other members too much power, as well as fostering the desire to join a clan simply because of the friends and people you enjoy to cooperate with, as I believe that should be the real motivation for joining a clan in the first place.

 

Edit: Thanks to user "Brasten" for pointing out how point 4 of the positive benefits should work. :)

 

5) This system would allow you to balance "costs vs. customer satisfaction" by removing the forma requirement for rooms that have no function, such as hallways, connectors, elevators etc. and instead implementing forma costs for rooms such as labs, reactor room, oracle, etc. (rooms that don't need to be physically accessed such as reactor rooms could just have their forma cost added to a lab before being able to spend the forma to access that lab) This may seem like a drastic reduction in profit but is the only "loss" of income balanced with several increases in revenue quantity and sources outlined herein that easily outweigh this loss. 

 

Edit: Obviously I cannot say whether or not this point is entirely feasible, due to the fact that DE alone has the complete figures and without numerical data I can't say whether they can make the connectors forma free or 1 forma like other rooms. 

 

5) Last but certainly not least with this system clans will have thier true purpose fulfilled: that of being a place where friends and like minded players can play together, be helpful to each other, and form friendships in game, instead of just being a gargantuan clan for player #5,733 to join and wait until they can reap the benefits for free.

 

How to move forward from here:

 

My earnest and professional advice? Emergency recall.

 

Roll back the dojos and everything associated with them, refund all forma / resources spent on them so far and take the necessary time to implement this new system before releasing dojos again. Players will understand. Believe me. People may threaten to stop playing, delete their accounts, destroy the Eiffel tower and all the usual rage, but they will still play. Believe me.

 

This is absolutely necessary in my opinion, in order to both be fair to those who spent forma as well as maximize the positive effects of this system. (profits and playability for all)

 

For future releases, updates, etc that include or revolve around monetized items such as forma etc. If you do not have someone on your staff who is a professional and has experience in marketing and economic paradigms, then I would hire someone as soon as possible.

 

So in conclusion, thank you as always for all your hard work, I sincerely hope you will get the chance to read this and consider it on its merits, and I wish you all nothing but the best because as I said, that means I will get to play the best.

 

;)

 

 

TLDR: ...honestly...I don't think making a TLDR for this is even possible....  my apologies for the long post but it was necessary. :(

Edited May 31, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Pisirk]

is that your resume for financial management?

 

help DE make money lol. 

[elianv200]

i dislike forma

[n8m4r3]

ever thought about the possibility, that most of the clans are <10 members? (edit: and want to stay that size)

In these cases your calculation would nett as a big loss for the company ;)

Edited May 25, 2013 by n8m4r3

[Poochy]

Yea not the best idea ever, but forma sucks still

[dragonboss]

I'm not sure if you factored in the fact that Forma can be obtained for free, but otherwise good observation and suggestion.

[Luxangel7]

ever thought about the possibility, that most of the clans are <10 members? (edit: and want to stay that size)

In these cases your calculation would nett as a big loss for the company ;)

 

If you take another look at what I wrote, you will see that currently the system has a limited amount of clans spending a limited amount of forma. :)

 

My proposal has every single player spending forma for every single room they want to access. This turns the current amount of forma bought / spent into a number that is exponentially greater than the amount that is being spent / bought now.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you factored in the fact that Forma can be obtained for free, but otherwise good observation and suggestion.

 

Thank you very much for your kind words :) And yes, I factored in the consideration that forma can also be obtained for free as a default factor, as if I were talking about reactors or catalysts.

Edited May 25, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[ThePresident777]

It's all too rich for my blood.

 

You're shifting the cost of forma.  How do you know people will pay it?   How can you know in advance which system will produce the greatest profits?

Edited May 25, 2013 by ThePresident777

[Maikky]

"Naaa DE is right, don't got the money ? To bad !"

 

- Irony 

[Altale]

Reminds me of potatoes pre-U7. You either needed to get lucky with RNG, or pay to fully utilize your frame/weapon, and this is what you're suggesting here.

[Luxangel7]

Reminds me of potatoes pre-U7. You either needed to get lucky with RNG, or pay to fully utilize your frame/weapon, and this is what you're suggesting here.

 

Sorry, I started playing right before they implemented update 7. How did potatoes work before update 7 went live? Aren't potatoes either RNG or paid items right now as well?

[Avenwing]

Sorry, I started playing right before they implemented update 7. How did potatoes work before update 7 went live? Aren't potatoes either RNG or paid items right now as well?

Your frames/weapons could not be fully utilized until you put a potato in them. Sometimes unable to access abilities depending on the frame.

[Altale]

Sorry, I started playing right before they implemented update 7. How did potatoes work before update 7 went live? Aren't potatoes either RNG or paid items right now as well?

You could only access half your upgrade nodes on weapons, and your ult ability for your frame was locked behind a golden potato.

[rhoenix]

I like this approach. It allows for scaling with all sizes of clans, and also makes the Forma requirement slightly more bearable. +1 from me.

[Luxangel7]

Your frames/weapons could not be fully utilized until you put a potato in them. Sometimes unable to access abilities depending on the frame.

You could only access half your upgrade nodes on weapons, and your ult ability for your frame was locked behind a golden potato.

Ah, well thanks for explaining that. Although I think I see the correlation you may be inferring between a system like that and the one I am suggesting, I think that there are several differences between the two. Apart from the fact that the ult ability on a warframe is different and a seperate thing when talking about dojos, consider that in my proposal there is no forma requirement for rooms that serve no purpose other than to connect functioning rooms like reactors, labs etc.

In addition to that consideration, right now the system is flawed on both fronts, player and dev. For the player it is flawed because smaller clans have no hope of achieving anything without farming and purchasing huge amounts of resources. For the devs it is flawed because soooo many players will flock to larger clans to simply get the benefits without having to ever spend a dime.

Therefore, I proposed the happy medium of letting everyone spend forma to access important rooms or their benefits such as reactors, labs etc. and not have to spend any forma on connector rooms.

Edited May 25, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Avenwing]

Ah, well thanks for explaining that. Although I think I see the correlation you may be inferring between a system like that and the one I am suggesting, I think that there are several differences between the two. Apart from the fact that the ult ability on a warframe is different and a seperate thing when talking about dojos, consider that in my proposal there is no forma requirement for rooms that serve no purpose other than to connect functioning rooms like reactors, labs etc.

In addition to that consideration, right now the system is flawed on both fronts, player and dev. For the player it is flawed because smaller clans have no hope of achieving anything without farming and purchasing huge amounts of resources. For the devs it is flawed because soooo many players will flock to larger clans to simply get the benefits without having to ever spend a dime.

Therefore, I proposed the happy medium of letting everyone spend forma to access important rooms or their benefits such as reactors, labs etc. and not have to spend any forma on connector rooms.

Wouldn't need more than one person for things like reactor either due to how it functions.

[ElementLordofMilk]

Honestly, I don't like this idea. I can't place my finger on it, I just don't like it.

[Avenwing]

Honestly, I don't like this idea. I can't place my finger on it, I just don't like it.

Neither do I mainly because depending on how big the clan is this could cost WAY more than it currently does which is already ridiculous. I also don't like the idea that even after I've built my dojo new recruits will not be able to access any of it until they get forma. Just bad imo.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Avenwing

[rhoenix]

Neither do I mainly because depending on how big the clan is this could cost WAY more than it currently does which is already ridiculous. I also don't like the idea that even after I've built my dojo new recruits will not be able to access any of it until they get forma. Just bad imo.

Ok, so what would work better?

[neKroMancer]

This proposal will place many clan-related contents behind a wall. Consider that Forma can be obtained through login reward (RNG), void missions(you need void key which is RNG and it may not even drop in this kind of mission(more RNG). Using Forma as 'fee' which you use to access content will likely result in an uproar from the playerbase. The void key issue is acceptable since there are more than one way to find it through normal gameplay. Forma is considerably harder to find for F2Pers.

The idea is reasonable but likely to push the dojo content into 'paid' territory.

[Luxangel7]

Wouldn't need more than one person for things like reactor either due to how it functions.

 

You might have missed it, but in my OP I suggest simply adding a prompt that asks you to pay one forma to unlock the reactor whenever you go to access a lab or anything else that is powered by it.

 

Neither do I mainly because depending on how big the clan is this could cost WAY more than it currently does which is already ridiculous. I also don't like the idea that even after I've built my dojo new recruits will not be able to access any of it until they get forma. Just bad imo.

 

Let me attempt to assuage your doubts. I believe my idea to be balanced both for the player and the dev team thusly:

 

While it is true that as an aggregate total the amount of forma used will be much higher, resulting in much higher profit, it is also true that the personal requirement for each player is much lower and evenly distributed. My plan both eliminates the scores of players who will never use a single forma on the clan, and at the same time approaches it in a fair and balanced way in terms of quantity.

 

Also, new recruits being able to instantly access everything for free without any contribution is the foundation of the enormous marketing mistake that was made with this dojo update. While you may personally dislike that fact, it remains nonetheless true unfortunately. Consider the example I made in my OP, if you could buy an orokin reactor, and then everyone in your clan gets to enjoy the benefits of your single purchase, do you think that makes sense?

 

My goal was to provide a solution that not only fixes this egregious financial blunder, but also addresses how to simultaneously remedy the issues of smaller clans not having a tenno's chance in hell of making their dojo rooms. :)

[Avenwing]

You might have missed it, but in my OP I suggest simply adding a prompt that asks you to pay one forma to unlock the reactor whenever you go to access a lab or anything else that is powered by it.

 

 

Let me attempt to assuage your doubts. I believe my idea to be balanced both for the player and the dev team thusly:

 

While it is true that as an aggregate total the amount of forma used will be much higher, resulting in much higher profit, it is also true that the personal requirement for each player is much lower and evenly distributed. My plan both eliminates the scores of players who will never use a single forma on the clan, and at the same time approaches it in a fair and balanced way in terms of quantity.

 

Also, new recruits being able to instantly access everything for free without any contribution is the foundation of the enormous marketing mistake that was made with this dojo update. While you may personally dislike that fact, it remains nonetheless true unfortunately. Consider the example I made in my OP, if you could buy an orokin reactor, and then everyone in your clan gets to enjoy the benefits of your single purchase, do you think that makes sense?

 

My goal was to provide a solution that not only fixes this egregious financial blunder, but also addresses how to simultaneously remedy the issues of smaller clans not having a tenno's chance in hell of making their dojo rooms. :)

I still don't feel that if I build it we should ever have to put forma into it again unless it's to upgrade the room or something. I also don't like asking members to sacrifice their own progression for building the clan hall. I've got 8k plat (or will after the update) most of that is going to go into my dojo (thanks DE for the stupid high Forma requirements.)

Edited May 25, 2013 by Avenwing

[Nerzil]

Personaly I prefere this idea.

I started out playing this game with a handfull of friends (We are about 8people) and we quickly made a clan together (Clan - Dumt og Farligt). Now with the Dojo we realy want to start useing our unspent resources on creating a great meeting place and get our R&D up and running.

But as we are so few the Forma cost will be enormous compared to this surgestion.

Also as stated in the surgestion this will help those people out there that dosn't want a clan but still wants access to the R&D. 

The Forma cost for the hallways are a bit pricy and should probably be lowered to 1, but I'll still pay them if thy aren't changed as I want our clan to have a great looking Dojo. (Currently I am paying for the Forma as I find it my obligation as Clan Warlord to do so and let the rest of the clan use theirs on weapons and warframes)

 

So to sum it up: I like the surgestion here and find it rather valid and an over all better marked scheme then the current version.

[Luxangel7]

This proposal will place many clan-related contents behind a wall. Consider that Forma can be obtained through login reward (RNG), void missions(you need void key which is RNG and it may not even drop in this kind of mission(more RNG). Using Forma as 'fee' which you use to access content will likely result in an uproar from the playerbase. The void key issue is acceptable since there are more than one way to find it through normal gameplay. Forma is considerably harder to find for F2Pers.

The idea is reasonable but likely to push the dojo content into 'paid' territory.

 

I understand your point, however, consider that forma currently drops with less rarity than a reactor or catalyst, this is because, apart from ? alerts and daily login rewards, forma is a potential reward from the void missions. True, this additional source is RNG on top of RNG, but it increases its availability nonetheless.

 

Now if you consider the few rooms in the dojo that are currently serving a purpose (not connectors) there really aren't that many.

 

Reactor / Oracle / 3 labs / duel 

 

Now if you consider that this basically means that with 3 forma any clan member can already start to access the new content, to me it seems to be very fair and balanced. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff to do with just one lab, and there will always be more in the future. I'm essentially not changing how the material is considered, but rather the requirements per each person. It's an economy of scale argument. Instead of having one clan spend a ton of forma to do anything, much less everything, you require every member to spend a little forma to access everything. This way, DE makes more money and every player can access everything in a reasonable manner. :)

 

 

 

I still don't feel that if I build it we should ever have to put forma into it again unless it's to upgrade the room or something. I also don't like asking members to sacrifice their own progression for building the clan hall. I've got 8k plat (or will after the update) most of that is going to go into my dojo (thanks DE for the stupid high Forma requirements.)

 

I understand your personal preference, but like I said, the problem and incredibly enormous loss of profit stems from the fact that right now, there are scores of players who get to save all their forma on personal upgrades, and get all the benefits of the dojo without ever having to use a single forma.

 

My solution offers a solution to that economic loss as well as providing a balanced approach to individual players both creating and being able to access dojo content.

 

However, I completely understand if your preference leads us to have a divergence of opinion. No hard feelings. :)

[Blatantfool]

I'm pretty sure DE is charging exactly what they desire to charge for the new content. "loss of potential profit" is fine to say put it isn't like people like you or me have any real insight on why things are priced as they are.

 

 Personally I think the set up right now is nice. Been a while since a huge chunk of content you earned by really buckling down and playing a ton has been added. We where in serious need.