Non-Euclidean Level Design: Let's get crazy, mappers.

[Ced23Ric]

Oh hai,

so today, I saw this maginificient video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xFbRecjKQA

It is another Portal 2 community map, but it goes further. Taking the games' elements of portals and generating repeated room elements, this "test chamber" isn't so much about solving a puzzle but messing with our minds. As we are attuned to specific laws on how dimensions and things work, the shown concept study does away with how things should work and bends it.

I would love - absolutely love - to see similar things used in Warframe. Sparringly, mind you, but nevertheless. The concept is fairly easy to reproduce, I am sure, and given such tools, some areas could become really ... crazy. In a good way. Think about rooms with messed up gravity, where one group of Tenno walks around on the ceiling, think about endless maintenance shafts that fold away to reveal that you only "hopped" a meters, think about distorted space/time effects after blowing up a reactor, think about a ship being stuck in an anomaly that twists dimensions.

Think about the Outer Terminus Relay and what could be going on at the outer rim of the Solar System.

[Foxbyte]

I think this would be confusing and awkward as heck... I love it. But not all the time, maybe just for special misisons; like certain research facilities, or perhaps randomly when there's an Orokin artifact going 'bad' on a ship.

[EclecticDragon]

This sounds like it would make a fun maze to run around in.

[SabreUr]

Question is - would Evolution support that kind of levels and would it generate non-broken levels of this kind.

Still, love it :]

Edited January 18, 2013 by SabreUr

[Paprika]

While they're in the process of making new tilesets to remedy monotony, I suggest they add non-euclidian maps to their list of map environments, As foxbyte mentioned, This would look great in research and development settings such as those in Pluto.

[AreWeHuman]

We need basic room/envornment variation first. However things like this could be interesting.

Feel like they should only be done when thematically appropriate.

[[DE]Scinbed]

That video is pretty interesting, not sure it's something we could introduce into Warframe however -- would require a lot of work under the hood I imagine. I like the idea of shifting gravity though, might be cool to integrate something like that into some levels.

[Ced23Ric]

That video is pretty interesting, not sure it's something we could introduce into Warframe however -- would require a lot of work under the hood I imagine. I like the idea of shifting gravity though, might be cool to integrate something like that into some levels.

From what I understand, you'd need visual and physical portals of various dimensions. It is more about the illusion than actual beding of dimensions. Nevertheless, if just something like gravity shifts makes it into the game (Think broken Reactor, broken artificial gravitiy), I'd be happy still. :)

[SabreUr]

Or time-changing rooms - we have already rhino ability which works like "almost-bullettime" - why not create room with this effect. Everything and everyone moves like in dense liquid. Possible effect of some Orokin artifact.

And why I am writing this, i should be studying for my engineer grade exam : (which is tomorrow) :|

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

I think this would be confusing and awkward as heck... I love it. But not all the time, maybe just for special misisons; like certain research facilities, or perhaps randomly when there's an Orokin artifact going 'bad' on a ship.

agree, if this were constant in more than maybe a handful of missions I would just end up rage quitting

[Kaiku]

Because of the prosedural map generation, I see this kind of thing almost as a must have. Now you have to carefully make sure all the different map pieces, the tiles, can snap nicely together.

But if it was non-euclidean, you wouldn't have to worry about overlaps.

[eelektrik]

MC Escher would approve, and I would love see a game designed around that.

Within Warframe, ideas like this would be able to allow them to make non-linear levels without having to make all their tileset rooms a specific size that line up perfectly when procedurally generated. Right now everything is linear/branching, never looping around on itself. There are never multiple routes to the same place, and usually we have to backtrack over areas we just went through when we need to head to a different branch for the evac room. This opens up more interesting ways of generating levels even without drawing attention to the effect being utilized.

edit: I have messed with level design before, mostly for Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 with the program JED, but also messed around with Unreal ED for both UT2K4 and UT3. But that video made me go look up the class on level design that is offered at my local community college. Good news was there was still room in the class, and it is immediately after the geometry class I was already signed up for. Great news was I looked up the text book the teacher is using and I already own it. Mastering Unreal Technology, Volume I: Introduction to Level Design with Unreal Engine 3.

Edited January 22, 2013 by eelektrik

[SabreUr]

Mastering Unreal Technology, Volume I: Introduction to Level Design with Unreal Engine 3.

Such books (and studies) exist?! And i picked Enviromental Engineering as my studies. Sadness.

Edited January 22, 2013 by SabreUr

[Strac_CRO]

no, thanks

[Ced23Ric]

no, thanks

That's what I call concise feedback.

[Strac_CRO]

That's what I call concise feedback.

Non-Euclidean Level Design = That's what I call non-concise feedback.

edit: by "concise" you mean:

concise, succinct, terse, compendious, laconic, contractive

or

concise, succinct, pithy, terse, laconic, hardcore

btw.

my post from another "Map & Level Feedback" thread:

If not opened levels (jungle, desert, mountain) maybe some levels could be on dark half-wrecked ships (damaged after ships battle) like on Dead Space series + some maps could be on planet's caves with jungle, desert, mountain "vegetation"

Also levels could be more "labyrinth" like with multiple walkthroughs (gameplay styles = stealth or run'n' gun) and level exploration

Maybe with dangerous alien animals or dead-space like mutants

btw.

I only started yesterday

I love the game I recommended it to some of my friends

Edited January 22, 2013 by Strac_CRO

[Ced23Ric]

You misunderstand.

I was proposing a technique on level design, with an example video and a few bits of ideas. This is not a thread for general level ideas. Also, I mean concise in the sense of "precise", "short" and "condensed". Because you said "no, thanks", and nothing more. No reasons behind it, no explanation. I thought was quite funny of you.

[electricsheep]

Because of the procedural map generation, I see this kind of thing almost as a must have. Now you have to carefully make sure all the different map pieces, the tiles, can snap nicely together.

But if it was non-euclidean, you wouldn't have to worry about overlaps.

Making a game engine that would handle 'real' non-euclidian geometry is way more complex than making sure that room tiles align well for any generated level. Smoke and mirrors way (portals at every room door) may be feasible technically, but really why would one want that? Sure it solves the room collisions, but at a cost of eliminating minimap and making levels much more difficult to navigate, which is not something you want to be concerned about in a fast-paced shooter.

Some gameplay elements designed to represent time/space distortions for specially crafted boss rooms and the like would be very welcome.

[Kaiku]

Making a game engine that would handle 'real' non-euclidian geometry is way more complex than making sure that room tiles align well for any generated level. Smoke and mirrors way (portals at every room door) may be feasible technically, but really why would one want that? Sure it solves the room collisions, but at a cost of eliminating minimap and making levels much more difficult to navigate, which is not something you want to be concerned about in a fast-paced shooter.

Some gameplay elements designed to represent time/space distortions for specially crafted boss rooms and the like would be very welcome.

That's a good point, not gonna argue about that.

[EclecticDragon]

Making a game engine that would handle 'real' non-euclidian geometry is way more complex than making sure that room tiles align well for any generated level. Smoke and mirrors way (portals at every room door) may be feasible technically, but really why would one want that? Sure it solves the room collisions, but at a cost of eliminating minimap and making levels much more difficult to navigate, which is not something you want to be concerned about in a fast-paced shooter.

Some gameplay elements designed to represent time/space distortions for specially crafted boss rooms and the like would be very welcome.

Yeah having a boss fight were the real challange lays in actually getting to the boss sounds like it would be allot of fun.

Edited January 22, 2013 by EclecticDragon

[CH4RL35t0n_Ch3W]

I'd like to see a jungle terrain next that would be sweet! MORE MAPS I SAY! MYES MYES!!

[Mibu]

Wouldn't fit in Warframe in my opinion. Also, that video feels laggy and made my eyes hurt.

[Strac_CRO]

it doesn't have to be jungle but maybe caves with weird vegetation ?

[Volume]

Prey had static portals in it to a limited degree and some areas of the map where gravity was different.

I'm not sure if Evolution is built to do this but it worked out okay with space-ish levels there. Granted, randomly generated portals might not work very well >.>

[Cleverbird]

Yeah, no... This wouldnt really fit into the Warframe universe... Even under the guise of "research facilities"

I just cant help how silly the AI must behave in a room like that. It would grow annoying really quickly