Please Balance Jat Kittag In Conclave

[lionman1111]

The radius is too far and the dmg is too high.

No one can dodge this attack even if they jump to somewhere else.

P.S. 2 hits and you are doom immobilized

[Storchenbein]

This will find more ears here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/forum/114-pvp-feedback/

[PerishedFraud]

You are horribly wrong.

 

To properly hammer someone you have to get a direct hit on them with a slam.

 

This is incredibly easy to dodge.

 

There is no stunlock even if you keep spamming slams. There is a time window between each one.

 

The non-direct slams deal next to no damage. 

 

You can escape from the very first stun if you just jump, and your enemy doesn't have enough time to attack you in between because of the high recoil with hammers.

 

 

Highly damaging and versatile? Yes.

 

Overpowered? No.

Edited August 16, 2015 by BeeOverlord

[lionman1111]

Jump cant dodge it.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/509696-jat-kittag-in-pvp-aoe-kogake-with-instant-kill/

[-Himari-]

Shifted over to "Feedback - PvP".

[elele]

To properly hammer someone you have to get a direct hit on them with a slam.

 

This is incredibly easy to dodge.

 

You see this is where you get it wrong: nobody uses Jat in a 1v1 fight. All I have to do is to find some guys in a fight, jump in for a ground slam, and randomly getting a kill sometimes. 

 

It's incredibly easy, requires no skill, and incredibly effective in any deathmatch or team deathmatch mode. There is absolutely no reason to use any other melee weapon ATM. This stupid thing can even knock people down when they're in mid-air. 

 

Just spam, spam and spam. 

 

Also works for spawn camping in cephalon capture mode (especially on the cephalon virtual space map where the spawn points are more clustered). Unless the enemy has the anti-knockdown mod (which many newer players don't have), you can spam it all day and those new players are just spawn r@ped again and again. It's very sad. 

Edited August 16, 2015 by elele

[KingTaro]

You see this is where you get it wrong: nobody uses Jat in a 1v1 fight. All I have to do is to find some guys in a fight, jump in for a ground slam, and randomly getting a kill sometimes. 

 

It's incredibly easy, requires no skill, and incredibly effective in any deathmatch or team deathmatch mode. There is absolutely no reason to use any other melee weapon ATM. This stupid thing can even knock people down when they're in mid-air. 

 

Just spam, spam and spam. 

 

Also works for spawn camping in cephalon capture mode (especially on the cephalon virtual space map where the spawn points are more clustered). Unless the enemy has the anti-knockdown mod (which many newer players don't have), you can spam it all day and those new players are just spawn r@ped again and again. It's very sad. 

What's your melee weapon? If it's one of the non-heavy melee weapons, you can use slide attack to negate the knockdown.

You can try it with heavy melee as well, but their recovery time after the slide may become an issue.

Bo Prime and Dragon Nikana works well for me.

 

Knockdown aside, being able to one-shot with a melee weapon is a bit too much.

In my opinion, only headshots with weapons like snipers and bows should be able to one-shot.

Edited August 16, 2015 by KingTaro

[Hueminator]

Recoil with hammers? First time hearing that.  

 

Although it is easier to hammer someone unaware of you.  However,when someone is unaware of you, pretty much you have an advantage regardless of weapons choice.

 

On the bright side, you get to hone your awareness skill to not get hammered

Edited August 16, 2015 by Hueminator

[elele]

What's your melee weapon? If it's one of the non-heavy melee weapons, you can use slide attack to negate the knockdown.

 

I have the Enguard mod and I use Frost so knockdown doesn't bother me much. I usually simply bullet jump away after the first knockdown. 

 

My problem with Jat is that it's simply better than Fragor, Scindo P, Magistra, Bo P and every other melee weapon. There is really no reason to use anything else when I can jump slam and damage enemies five meters away. 

 

 

However,when someone is unaware of you, pretty much you have an advantage regardless of weapons choice.

 

The problem is Jat doesn't require aiming, doesn't require you to stay close to melee. Just jump like a bunny to damage enemies. It's not fun. But it's so effective at the moment, if I don't use it I'm deliberately putting myself at a disadvantage. 

[Zeally]

The fact that Rhino can slam you with the Jat and then immidiately detonate his armor to 2 shot you says this needs a tweak.

[PerishedFraud]

"You "You see this is where you get it wrong: nobody uses Jat in a 1v1 fight. All I have to do is to find some guys in a fight, jump in for a ground slam, and randomly getting a kill sometimes. 

 

It's incredibly easy, requires no skill, and incredibly effective in any deathmatch or team deathmatch mode. There is absolutely no reason to use any other melee weapon ATM. This stupid thing can even knock people down when they're in mid-air."

 

How is this any different than shooting at people that are fighting?

 

LETS NERF AMBUSH STRATEGY!

 

Edited August 16, 2015 by BeeOverlord

[elele]

 

"You "You see this is where you get it wrong: nobody uses Jat in a 1v1 fight. All I have to do is to find some guys in a fight, jump in for a ground slam, and randomly getting a kill sometimes. 

 

It's incredibly easy, requires no skill, and incredibly effective in any deathmatch or team deathmatch mode. There is absolutely no reason to use any other melee weapon ATM. This stupid thing can even knock people down when they're in mid-air."

 

How is this any different than shooting at people that are fighting?

 

LETS NERF AMBUSH STRATEGY!

 

 

 

Can't tell the difference between "aiming a tiny crosshair on a tiny targeting moving left and right" and "jumping high, aiming mouse at ground, pressing F and randomly getting a kill"? 

 

Oh and Jat's knockdown shockwave even goes through walls and knocks down targets in mid air. 

 

Please don't be ridiculous. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by elele

[Alethkar]

Nerf aoe dmg and radius dmg. Nerf vertical blast. Nerf it to the ground...

[PerishedFraud]

Can't tell the difference between "aiming a tiny crosshair on a tiny targeting moving left and right" and "jumping high, aiming mouse at ground, pressing F and randomly getting a kill"? 

 

Oh and Jat's knockdown shockwave even goes through walls and knocks down targets in mid air. 

 

Please don't be ridiculous. 

 

 

There is no difference. To kill with jag you need a direct hit. Your enemies can move, but the chance is smaller because they're fighting.

 

The exact same thing happens when you shoot at them, the chance of them noticing is smaller because they're fighting.

 

I swear, you can run in with a skana and you'll get the same results.

 

Can't aim at enemies? Not our problem, don't ask for melee nerfs because of it. (I know this sounds a bit rude but it's true)

 

Vertical blast can use a nerf. Total aoe can use a slight nerf. But this is only to make it less annoying.

Edited August 17, 2015 by BeeOverlord

[Nihilum]

There is no difference. To kill with jag you need a direct hit. Your enemies can move, but the chance is smaller because they're fighting.

 

The exact same thing happens when you shoot at them, the chance of them noticing is smaller because they're fighting.

 

I swear, you can run in with a skana and you'll get the same results.

 

Can't aim at enemies? Not our problem, don't ask for melee nerfs because of it. (I know this sounds a bit rude but it's true)

 

Vertical blast can use a nerf. Total aoe can use a slight nerf. But this is only to make it less annoying.

Everything you've said is just kinda wrong in regards to reasoning.

Jat Kittag is currently super stupidly op with the movement system.

The AOE  KD is rediculous. All you need to do is stun and shoot, or stun and run up and melee while their on the ground if you miss a killing blow. Needs a hefty nerf without the stamina limitation.

It stuns from like fifteen feet away with the AOE knock down, even while your frame is off the ground. That is ridiculous and you know it. Nothing to do with aiming skill.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Nihilum

[Craig_1287]

You are horribly wrong.

 

To properly hammer someone you have to get a direct hit on them with a slam.

 

This is incredibly easy to dodge.

 

There is no stunlock even if you keep spamming slams. There is a time window between each one.

 

The non-direct slams deal next to no damage. 

 

You can escape from the very first stun if you just jump, and your enemy doesn't have enough time to attack you in between because of the high recoil with hammers.

 

 

Highly damaging and versatile? Yes.

 

Overpowered? No.

Here's a video I just made. It's from rounds about an hour ago. If you can tell me how this footage doesn't completely go against what you've stated above, then you are amazing at debating.

 

[Impulse_Nine]

That video really does sum up the problem with it, good job on that. I'm trying to think of an intelligent and clever nerf to it to keep it distinctive while less flatly better.

 

The best I can think is to make the recovery period after the slam SO long that if you didn't kill them with it, your recovery is still longer than theirs and leaves you open for a full second. Essentially you gain the much greater AoE, and you still 1 shot- but it becomes an extremely risky gamble, compared to other heavy weapons (Like my Scindo prime *ahem*).

 

That however would allow it to continue 1-shotting which I appreciate aggravates many players, as well as look and feel unusually slow and awkward. Tenno, even with heavy weapons, are clearly supposed to be agile.

 

As an aside though I'd like that change from a universe perspective- the Grineer can indeed make weapons more powerful than the Orokin in an aspect (in this case slam range and damage)- but they do so sacrificing too much in all the others, meaning the prime gear is still "usually better" while not being always better in every case.

[Quran-tine]

There is no difference. To kill with jag you need a direct hit. Your enemies can move, but the chance is smaller because they're fighting.

 

The exact same thing happens when you shoot at them, the chance of them noticing is smaller because they're fighting.

 

I swear, you can run in with a skana and you'll get the same results.

 

Can't aim at enemies? Not our problem, don't ask for melee nerfs because of it. (I know this sounds a bit rude but it's true)

 

Vertical blast can use a nerf. Total aoe can use a slight nerf. But this is only to make it less annoying.

See, here's the problem with your logic. The jat kittag has an aoe range of 5/6 meters, if you get knocked over, they'll shoot you before you even get up. Now please, just accept the nerf that is coming.

 

It's not just the jat kittag that is killing people, It's the jat kittag coupled with your gun that is killing people. The aoe range knockdown and your gun is what makes the jat kittag one of the most ridiculously over powered weapons there is in the game

Edited August 25, 2015 by MarvelousMuncher