Mesa's 4 Ability.

[Wenno.]

Hi, I really think that you should make some sort of de-buff for using the 4 ability. It's way to over powered. When you're playing a mission where there's a Mesa, the mission isn't a mission. It's an AFK farm. It happens way to often when you're in a T4 Defence and Mesa just makes everyone go afk. It makes the game so boring. 

 

I'd really like you to do this, it really does affect game-play.

[--FORMA--]

Mesa 4th ability nerf thread #734

I'm pretty sure DE is aware of this, and looking for a way to nerf the Peacemakers with out demolishing them.

[x_Soulframe_x]

Its boring but it get S#&$ done... I kinda want a nerf but at the same time I don't, this has kinda been a whole copy of the Draco - Excal farm situation. Which really makes me feel sad for Mesa users who like spamming her ult...

[AlanW001]

Why do you have to nerf any warframe? Don't play with a Mesa if you don't want too. You are not forced to accept a squad mission that has people playing in a way you may not like.

 

The rest of us who played a lot can see advantages when you are up against a wall of highly overpowered enemies and the weapons and warframes are nerfed so badly that the mission is doomed. I have seen missions that only just succeed if the right mix of warframes and weapons are being used. Mesa is a valuable tool in the fight against the enemy.

 

Nerfing our frames and weapons while increasing the enemies power is a sure way to destroy this game. For who can fight an overpowering enemy with weak tools?

Edited August 24, 2015 by AlanW001

[DJ_Vauban]

 

 For who can fight an overpowering enemy with weak tools?

A weapon or "tool" is only as good as the one who uses it, unless that weapon is overpowered like a nuke, then everyone can win. Get rid of the OP-ness and add some skill to it instead and you will do just as fine owo

Edited August 24, 2015 by DJ_Vauban

[UmbraFalcon]

Hello there sir, There are a couple of things that I should notify you of about this post of yours.

A). Mesa's Ultimate, Peacemakers, play a role in certain types of missions. While they may seem to be overpowering at times, they do leave Mesa at some disadvantages. If she doesn't have a strong Shatter Shield, she can become quite defenseless or squishy (gaming terminology) if there are too many enemies around for her to take down quickly. This is where your teammates play a role as supporting when Mesa is in "turret mode" and keep any melee or close combat enemies of her. Another disadvantage you have to take into account sir is that fact that Mesa's Peacemakers drain energy for as long as they are active. This means, depending on how the player using Mesa has modded her for more strength, efficiency, or both, that at some point the player will have to disable the ability and gather more energy. This feature can become strenuous to manage if there are lots of enemies that haven't been killed yet.

B). Mesa has become a favorite among players of Warframe, to me especially. Nerfing her staple ability will make a lot of warframe players either very mad or very sad. 

C). Whether or not you are aware of this but Mesa is a valued frame in use for high tier missions such as the well know Draco interception mission on Ceres and any of the void mobile defense, defense, or survival missions. Her fourth ability becomes necessary when large groups of enemies start approaching the target or starting spawning more in the mission.

D). This one is just my opinion. I don't really see an issue with Mesa's Ultimate and I don't see a good reason to nerf her abilities either. Whether it may be something you see with the ability itself or just something you have against warframes with the "press 4 to win" option, just because her peacemakers "seem" to be overpowered they are not always. It all depends on how you utilize the Warframe.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I was really annoyed by Mesa's 4th for a long while, but it is so handy for farming and I can go to the bathroom in the middle of a mission... bonus :D

 

Frost + Mesa in Def = game over, easy mode. I love it.

[Slifar]

Why do you have to nerf any warframe? Don't play with a Mesa if you don't want too. You are not forced to accept a squad mission that has people playing in a way you may not like.

 

The rest of us who played a lot can see advantages when you are up against a wall of highly overpowered enemies and the weapons and warframes are nerfed so badly that the mission is doomed. I have seen missions that only just succeed if the right mix of warframes and weapons are being used. Mesa is a valuable tool in the fight against the enemy.

 

Nerfing our frames and weapons while increasing the enemies power is a sure way to destroy this game. For who can fight an overpowering enemy with weak tools?

Mesa needs to be nerfed because she's overpowered to the point of directly detracting from other's experience.

 

A well-placed Mesa on any objective-based map literally leaves the rest of the team with nothing to do. On Draco, for example, there are a few spots Mesa can stand that allows her to kill the vast majority of enemies as they spawn, leaving the team with nothing to do but twiddle their thumbs while waiting for Mesa to drop out of Peacemaker to collect more energy, or try to get to the enemies before she shoots them... Which causes that spawnpoint to stop working until they move away! Typically, by the time Mesa needs to go gather energy, there's plenty in nearby locations that she can fuel back up without much downtime. 

 

The issue is that Mesa has to, by necessity, be pretty squishy to abuse her 4 in the manners that make her this overbearing, making it even harder to balance while keeping the overall nature of the frame. 

 

If I had to make a guess, I forsee DE making Peacemaker a sort of toggle, similar to how Exalted Blade currently works, and switching the auto-aim portion of the skill over to the alt-fire button and causing it to consume a bit more energy in compensation. Ability is brought in line by the extra energy cost, while still preserving the ability as a whole... And come on, we ALL know we would really like to run around with those awesome finger-pistols active~ 

[Dualstar]

Why do you have to nerf any warframe?

Because when the game is playable with one button, it becomes boring. You could have all sorts of things in the game, and none of it would matter because that one thing has the winning combination of reward/effort.

 

Don't play with a Mesa if you don't want too.

Choosing to not play a frame does not solve any problem, its like ignoring that you have cancer and hoping itll go away.

 

You are not forced to accept a squad mission that has people playing in a way you may not like.

True youre not forced to accept a mission where you know theres going to be a Mesa, but you cant control who can and cant join your games at random.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Dualstar

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Why do you have to nerf any warframe? Don't play with a Mesa if you don't want too. You are not forced to accept a squad mission that has people playing in a way you may not like.

 

If Peacemaker isn't a problem, then let's implement an ability that levels up your gear for you while your computer is turned off. It would accomplish exactly the same thing.

 

I think I've already said this before, but its validity remains.

[F-Minus]

Who gives a S#&$ about Draco, IO, Helene etc. etc. really, frankly be happy that there is frames who can clear Draco up to wave 20 as quick as it can, because you can level your frame from 0 to 30 in that, and you can re-forma 5 times and have everything at 30 in 2 hours or less, instead of taking 3 days the conventional way. When you formad stuff about 30 times, you are kind of bored doing that, no matter where you're at void or regular missions, so if it helps to go from 0 to 30 in one mission, I'm all for it. 

 

Those low level nodes are there to be farmed, they don't really give you anything special because drop rates for anything good are superior low, and defense/intercept mission layouts are broken allowing for this kind of play, but they can't really fix them cause there's still frames who can kill everything through walls, floors etc.

 

If you want to actually play the game, do missions which actually require you to move around a level instead of moving in a 250x250m square, this is where most nuke frames don't leave others in the dust.

 

Also the most funny thing about people complaining about nuke frames on defense/intercept missions is the reality of when the nuker stops nuking and the other 3 die like instantly 5 seconds later. The reality is, the vast majority of Warframe players can't survive Draco without a nuker frame, The only bad thing nuke frames like Mesa did, is make others think they can handle stuff that they obviously can't, because they never experienced it without a nuker in the game. 

 

I'm farming IO for Oxium with my Mag/Mesa, mind you I rarely play full peacemaker Mesa and I always ask the party if it's OK to nuke, and people fail even there past wave 15, even tho they are supposedly all pro with all maxed out gear after inspecting them, and those same guys complain about Mesa, Mag, Nova, etc. can't make it past wave 5 on Draco without them in the game. 

 

Also while it's fresh, when you do 100 runs of Titania without a single time using peacemaker and at the end dealing 95% of damage, you know where the general player of Warframe is in the big picture. So in essence the only broken thing is that hard carrying people made them think they are good enough for certain nodes which clearly they aren't. 

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

A stand still power does well at lower levels of a stand still mission, surprise.

A power that primarily does impact, drains 15 energy a second, won't let you target high priorities, has to rely on a 50% crit for damage otherwise doing 1000 (about, with max strength but no PM build goes here because they need efficiency) damage or less each shot before resistances come in, makes you stand still leaving you completely vulnerable without preparation and only does torso shots is OP?

Buff Mesa!

Edited August 26, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

A stand still power does well at lower levels of a stand still mission, surprise.

A power that primarily does impact, drains 15 energy a second, won't let you target high priorities, has to rely on a 50% crit for damage otherwise doing 1000 (about, with max strength but no PM build goes here because they need efficiency) damage or less each shot before resistances come in, makes you stand still leaving you completely vulnerable without preparation and only does torso shots is OP?

Buff Mesa!

 

It's not OP, it's just brain-dead. High levels aren't where it causes problems. It doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework.

[Kletse]

I'm happy with mesa in my team

[Sakatchi]

Hello there op, you have apparently failed to notice she is not able to move while in peace maker, she cannot actually target what she wants while in peace maker, if she stays in peace maker too long she gets flagged as afk, it actually drains energy at a decent rate if you do not plan for it, it has line of sight, it actually has a range limit, and its damage falls off around lv 50ish.

 

Furthermore, weapon mods, and warframe mods do not scale the damage, and it never gets an element, so its just raw damage.

 

Moreover, she does not get immunity frames while in peace maker, so its quite possible to get clipped by a bombard, heavy gunner, or shot gun crewman, and die if you're deep enough in a defense.

 

Oh, and nullifiers do in fact exist, and things oh so enjoy hiding in those bubbles, which completely block her shots, and they do enjoy spawning upwards of 5 at a time or more.  That's also something you ought to know.

 

So in conclusion, you ought to deal with it, and enjoy the fact a mesa is helping you through defenses and survivals quicker, since you only benefit from it, due to the fact war frame is a team game.

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

Have you ever brought a Mesa to T3/4 defense or survival? Peacemaker is fine the way it is - almost unusable endgame because you can't move. I never build for PM unless it's an exterminate.

Edited August 28, 2015 by (PS4)Void_Girl

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Hello there op, you have apparently failed to notice she is not able to move while in peace maker, she cannot actually target what she wants while in peace maker, if she stays in peace maker too long she gets flagged as afk, it actually drains energy at a decent rate if you do not plan for it, it has line of sight, it actually has a range limit, and its damage falls off around lv 50ish.

 

Furthermore, weapon mods, and warframe mods do not scale the damage, and it never gets an element, so its just raw damage.

 

Moreover, she does not get immunity frames while in peace maker, so its quite possible to get clipped by a bombard, heavy gunner, or shot gun crewman, and die if you're deep enough in a defense.

 

Oh, and nullifiers do in fact exist, and things oh so enjoy hiding in those bubbles, which completely block her shots, and they do enjoy spawning upwards of 5 at a time or more.  That's also something you ought to know.

 

So in conclusion, you ought to deal with it, and enjoy the fact a mesa is helping you through defenses and survivals quicker, since you only benefit from it, due to the fact war frame is a team game.

 

Have you ever brought a Mesa to T3/4 defense or survival? Peacemaker is fine the way it is - almost unusable endgame because you can't move. I never build for PM unless it's an exterminate.

 

*sigh*

 

It's not OP, it's just brain-dead. High levels aren't where it causes problems. It doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework.

[5H4DE]

People who still depend on Mesa for defenses are the same kind of people who flipped their house when greedy pull got changed and they had to go for loot themselves . Im gonna sit here , chilling  in my Frost bubble with my friends Loki , Excalibur and Nova . We didnt need Mag to get loot before just as we didnt need Mesa to do T4 either , get out of your comfort zone and actually play the game , you will be surprised how easy you can deal with these T4 enemies if you actually bother to aim and shoot at them .

 

I cant wait to see the BabyRage threads when Peacemaker is changed .

[Sakatchi]

*sigh*

What, no snarky comeback or paragraph detailing just how wrong I am?

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

How long does AFK last? 10-15mins with a decent team? She's only useful for speed farming.

 

Personally, I wish there was a way to rush waves. For example: in T4 Defense, you could send the whole 5 waves at the beginning, and it'd be non stop enemies spawning (instead of waiting for pauses, with like increased movement speed (because, not all enemies could spawn at once). It'd make things a bit more difficult, interesting, save time and possibly improved exp . Mesa's would become less necessary to speed up rounds, and a rework could be more acceptable to happen.

 

Right now, after they changed the way enemies spawn, enemies spawn so slowly, S#&$ gets boring even without a Mesa until 20+waves.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

What, no snarky comeback or paragraph detailing just how wrong I am?

 

Sometimes only a few words, perhaps even ones you've already said, are necessary.

[TheBrsrkr]

Hello there op, you have apparently failed to notice she is not able to move while in peace maker, she cannot actually target what she wants while in peace maker, if she stays in peace maker too long she gets flagged as afk, it actually drains energy at a decent rate if you do not plan for it, it has line of sight, it actually has a range limit, and its damage falls off around lv 50ish.

Furthermore, weapon mods, and warframe mods do not scale the damage, and it never gets an element, so its just raw damage.

Moreover, she does not get immunity frames while in peace maker, so its quite possible to get clipped by a bombard, heavy gunner, or shot gun crewman, and die if you're deep enough in a defense.

Oh, and nullifiers do in fact exist, and things oh so enjoy hiding in those bubbles, which completely block her shots, and they do enjoy spawning upwards of 5 at a time or more. That's also something you ought to know.

So in conclusion, you ought to deal with it, and enjoy the fact a mesa is helping you through defenses and survivals quicker, since you only benefit from it, due to the fact war frame is a team game.

You know what he did notice? That he was standing there twiddling his thumbs. In fact, he sat there for 4waves and twiddled his thumbs, because that's all Mesa, even with those restrictions, allowed him to do.

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

How long does AFK last? 10-15mins with a decent team? She's only useful for speed farming.

 

Correct. SMH non-Mesa players crying for nerf.

[5H4DE]

Correct. SMH non-Mesa players crying for nerf.

Aparently you dont know how to build around mesa if you believe you can only last 15 minutes with peacemaker spam .

You can get through 40 waves with that mesa spam with the least amount of effort , wanna know how ? Augmented Mirage , thats a 400% dmg boost for Mesa , Disarm Loki to keep bombard weapons down , Frost with a bit of range so if rockets hit they wont obliterate the turret on top of the cryopod . What about Nulifiers ? Everyone knows by now how to oneshot them without bothering with their bubble .

[xLordKogax]

I Love the fact that I can do flying peacemaker.

 

Noone has tried this yet xD

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/518328-mobilized-peacemaker-come-try-it-yourself-xd/

 

 

I believe i could fly!

Edited August 28, 2015 by ShadowsofKoga