Mesa's 4 Ability.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I Love the fact that I can do flying peacemaker.

 

Noone has tried this yet xD

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/518328-mobilized-peacemaker-come-try-it-yourself-xd/

 

 

I believe i could fly!

 

I've seen this. It's honestly something I could get behind if Peacemaker wasn't the most poorly designed ability in the entire game by a wide margin. If it had its main problems fixed, I would love this.

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

Aparently you dont know how to build around mesa if you believe you can only last 15 minutes with peacemaker spam.

 

Point is you can't get very far with PM alone unless your whole squad is dedicated to it. Seems like most people just look at the ability and assume it does everything without any help from teammates in endgame.

[Varoun717]

You find it boring and too easy to play a t4 def with a mesa, then there is only one way to go and it is to go solo.  Going solo is the answer not the nerf.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

You find it boring and too easy to play a t4 def with a mesa, then there is only one way to go and it is to go solo.  Going solo is the answer not the nerf.

 

"Mesa is broken, so instead of doing anything about it, anyone saying that Mesa is broken should just not ever play this primarily co-op game with other human beings."

 

Still, a nerf isn't the answer. A rework is the answer.

Edited August 29, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Lord_of_Lords]

The damage and DPS is actually on the lower end (45k DPS on maxed Mesa VS 100k+ on maxed Saryn/Excal/Ash).

 

I think the overpowered part is that it aims for you and the drain is so manageable.  

 

I would like DE to up the damage of the Peacemakers but make them cost energy per shot (like 1/2/3 energy per shot varying on rank).  The goal here is to up the DPS to about 100k (maybe a bit lower because of the insane range) while also providing a more fun role for the mesa.  This DPS increase could also be applied by making the Peacemaker damage be finisher damage.

 

On a side note:

Right now you can aim-glide with the Peacemakers which makes Mesa viable in early survival and a lot more viable in void interception/exterminate.  It would be cool if this were actually made a feature to the point that Mesa could walk around with the Peacemakers drawn for the cost of the current energy drain rate.

 

Overall, there are a lot of approaches DE could take but a straight nerf won't solve the real problem (Mesa is OP at low level and underwhelming at high level).

[RazrOutlaw]

Mesa needs to be nerfed because she's overpowered to the point of directly detracting from other's experience.

 

A well-placed Mesa on any objective-based map literally leaves the rest of the team with nothing to do. On Draco, for example, there are a few spots Mesa can stand that allows her to kill the vast majority of enemies as they spawn, leaving the team with nothing to do but twiddle their thumbs while waiting for Mesa to drop out of Peacemaker to collect more energy, or try to get to the enemies before she shoots them... Which causes that spawnpoint to stop working until they move away! Typically, by the time Mesa needs to go gather energy, there's plenty in nearby locations that she can fuel back up without much downtime. 

 

The issue is that Mesa has to, by necessity, be pretty squishy to abuse her 4 in the manners that make her this overbearing, making it even harder to balance while keeping the overall nature of the frame. 

 

If I had to make a guess, I forsee DE making Peacemaker a sort of toggle, similar to how Exalted Blade currently works, and switching the auto-aim portion of the skill over to the alt-fire button and causing it to consume a bit more energy in compensation. Ability is brought in line by the extra energy cost, while still preserving the ability as a whole... And come on, we ALL know we would really like to run around with those awesome finger-pistols active~ 

And you think this is a nice solution? do you even play excalibur now? I do, he is my most used frame, now imagine the same thing but with pistols (and pistol mods, yeah remember primed heated charge, and prime pistol gambit? yeah those.) also add to this arcane awakening (60% damage to pistols when you reload), people needs to know peacemaker is working as DE intended it to, I'ts a DPS ability, meant to do damage, meant to kill, meant to use only for defense missions, the people that complain about mesa on draco & defense missions are the one's recruiting for a mesa player in chat, if they rework mesa like that, be sure to expect a mesa in every squad you ever play & be ready to see the OMG DE PLS NERF MESA TOO OP HITS FOR 100 MILLION threads aswell, many of the DPS frames can out DPS her, for example saryn, or ash when it comes to high level enemies, mesa is seriously bad, she can only deal with the trash mobs, and hardly doing it, and it's extremely squishy cause you have no duration, so there goes your balancing, peacemaker is a risk reward ability, a double edged blade, what needs to be reworked here are the interception maps, not mesa, have you ever seen a mesa camping on T4 interception? No, cause she can't, that's why it has become my favourite mission type recently, there I can bring my duration mesa and not get hated on by the rest of my teammates.

[XBlackLotusX]

hey heres my opinion as somone who has played ALOT of defence missions in the past few days. this isent a problem i bairly run into mesa's

when i do run into a mesa its because the host has asked for 1

i know what sort of lobby im getting into i dont need to guess i can leave if i want to.

if mesa gets nerfed in the name of ballance please see this list of warframes for the nerfbat

 

ash's 4

saryns 4

oberons 4

volts 4

mags 2 on corpus missions and 4 everywhere else

rhinos 4

frosts 4

embers 4

excals 3 and 4

nova's 4 (can litteraly make the battle stand still

nyx's 4 with max range

loki's 4 when combined with other cc frames

vauban's 4 when combined with loki

mirages 1 with aoe based weapons

banshes 2 when combined with aoe frames (14x damage and you dont even have to aim if you got explosives)

limbos 1 and 4 when combined with some frames

valkyr (god mode)

Trinitys 2 for feeding all of these frames

 

tho i will say nekros, zephyr, Chroma, hydroid, and equinox are quite ballanced unless you main one of these 4 frames i dont wanna hear any complaints because your only sticking up for broken content.

 

Edit: oh and hydroid because everyone loves the friendly nabourhood puddle.

Edited September 1, 2015 by XBlackLotusX

[5H4DE]

hey heres my opinion as somone who has played ALOT of defence missions in the past few days. this isent a problem i bairly run into mesa's

when i do run into a mesa its because the host has asked for 1

i know what sort of lobby im getting into i dont need to guess i can leave if i want to.

if mesa gets nerfed in the name of ballance please see this list of warframes for the nerfbat

 

ash's 4

saryns 4

oberons 4

volts 4

mags 2 on corpus missions and 4 everywhere else

rhinos 4

frosts 4

embers 4

excals 3 and 4

nova's 4 (can litteraly make the battle stand still

nyx's 4 with max range

loki's 4 when combined with other cc frames

vauban's 4 when combined with loki

mirages 1 with aoe based weapons

banshes 2 when combined with aoe frames (14x damage and you dont even have to aim if you got explosives)

limbos 1 and 4 when combined with some frames

valkyr (god mode)

Trinitys 2 for feeding all of these frames

 

tho i will say nekros, zephyr, Chroma, hydroid, and equinox are quite ballanced unless you main one of these 4 frames i dont wanna hear any complaints because your only sticking up for broken content.

 

Edit: oh and hydroid because everyone loves the friendly nabourhood puddle.

Thanks for sharing your list of what you hate on every single frame in the game and letting us know your favourite frames that you dont want to be touched . We sure will take into consideration all your arguments and suggestions about how X and Y should be nerfed / changed / reworked .

 

/sarcasm

Edited September 1, 2015 by TheRealShade

[RazrOutlaw]

Thanks for sharing your list of what you hate on every single frame in the game and letting us know your favourite frames that you dont want to be touched . We sure will take into consideration all your arguments and suggestions about how X and Y should be nerfed / changed / reworked .

 

/sarcasm

Why should we take into considerantion your hate about mesa's peacemaker then? are you any special or different from him? that's what you guys don't seem to understand

[5H4DE]

Why should we take into considerantion your hate about mesa's peacemaker then? are you any special or different from him? that's what you guys don't seem to understand

I never stated i hate Peacemaker , i dont like the idea of brain-dead abilities and i feel like nukes should be reworked to require some sort of skill in using them . This goes for all the warframes that curently have a braindead PressOneKeyForGenocide nuke not only Mesa , i like mesa , i dont really like peacemaker so i dont mod around it , the same goes for all the frames i like , i use they kit , but i dont build around their nuke ability , i build around whatever else they can bring and be beneficial in the long run .

[TheBrsrkr]

Why should we take into considerantion your hate about mesa's peacemaker then? are you any special or different from him? that's what you guys don't seem to understand

He's going to have to do some expert mental gymnastics to try to convince someone that a 50m range afk macro bot that is about as interactive as watching paint dry in a swimming pool and a constant drain is in any way less broken than a 15m AoE that costs 100 energy flat out and does poor damage.

[XBlackLotusX]

He's going to have to do some expert mental gymnastics to try to convince someone that a 50m range afk macro bot that is about as interactive as watching paint dry in a swimming pool and a constant drain is in any way less broken than a 15m AoE that costs 100 energy flat out and does poor damage.

 

you realy want me to? i guarentee you a wall of text in 30 minutes

 

Thanks for sharing your list of what you hate on every single frame in the game and letting us know your favourite frames that you dont want to be touched . We sure will take into consideration all your arguments and suggestions about how X and Y should be nerfed / changed / reworked .

 

/sarcasm

 

actualy i hate all the warframes that i put at the bottom apart from 2 and love all the ones i said should get nerfed apart from 7 that being said i listed every warframe in warframe to my knoledge and this is relevant to the conversation because all of them are nuker frames asist nuker frames or promote afk gameplay so... your move i guess?

[RazrOutlaw]

He's going to have to do some expert mental gymnastics to try to convince someone that a 50m range afk macro bot that is about as interactive as watching paint dry in a swimming pool and a constant drain is in any way less broken than a 15m AoE that costs 100 energy flat out and does poor damage.

So you are comparing a flat out miasma with a full moded peacemaker?, cause I know peacemaker range isn't modified in any form, but it has way too much energy drain (keep in mind you are talking about base frames with no mods, so it's a 150 energy cap there), and same goes for poor damage, you're just trying to justify miasma over peacemaker. Both abilities are brainded and require no player skill, both abilities are strong, but miasma is crearly stronger.

[TheBrsrkr]

So you are comparing a flat out miasma with a full moded peacemaker?, cause I know peacemaker range isn't modified in any form, but it has way too much energy drain (keep in mind you are talking about base frames with no mods, so it's a 150 energy cap there), and same goes for poor damage, you're just trying to justify miasma over peacemaker. Both abilities are brainded and require no player skill, both abilities are strong, but miasma is crearly stronger.

I was talking about Oberon.

[RazrOutlaw]

I was talking about Oberon.

Oberon reckoning provides lots of cc, and the health orbs, and the only CC peacemaker provides are the impact procs, like I said on the other thread, all have their advantages and disadvantages, this doesn't mean the difference between each one of them is "broken" nor "overpowered".

[XBlackLotusX]

I was talking about Oberon.

http://www.warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Oberon/t_30_0200020020_2-0-10-3-8-5-4-2-5-5-7-5-6-1-5-46-6-4-54-4-4-55-3-5-411-5-10_2-12-6-6-4-9-55-11-54-8-411-8-46-10-5-9-3-18-f-f_0/en/1-0-15

 

self sustainable spamable nuke with the ability to go through walls if used with a rocket pistol with a rank 1 pistol pestilance or other poison mod can give you infinite energy from the health orbs

 

ps it also puts a rad proc on targets so they more offten than not dont attack you when they get up if they get up they attack eachother instead of you

 

also did i say if you mod for more power str you can hit alot harder? just have to get everyones favourit trinity to top you up

 

NEXT

[TheBrsrkr]

Oberon reckoning provides lots of cc, and the health orbs, and the only CC peacemaker provides are the impact procs, like I said on the other thread, all have their advantages and disadvantages, this doesn't mean the difference between each one of them is "broken" nor "overpowered".

No, what makes Reckoning as eligible to be nerfed as Peacemaker?

[XBlackLotusX]

No, what makes Reckoning as eligible to be nerfed as Peacemaker?

when used with equalibrium and a low damage rocket pistol with poison damage it can be spamed forever without assistance from other frames

when combined with trinity and loki it can be used to infinitly stunlock enemys making it imposible for them to advance

it has more base damage than the op skill peacemaker (2x + 50 the base damage of peacemaker) peacemaker is 600 base at lv 30 reckoning is 1250 at base lv 30

peacemaker has no cc reckoning has a radiation proc that makes it a mini nyx it has a long period where the enemy is imobile while casting

 

do i need to go on or can you try another frame i can get nerfed?

[TheBrsrkr]

http://www.warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Oberon/t_30_0200020020_2-0-10-3-8-5-4-2-5-5-7-5-6-1-5-46-6-4-54-4-4-55-3-5-411-5-10_2-12-6-6-4-9-55-11-54-8-411-8-46-10-5-9-3-18-f-f_0/en/1-0-15

self sustainable spamable nuke with the ability to go through walls if used with a rocket pistol with a rank 1 pistol pestilance or other poison mod can give you infinite energy from the health orbs

ps it also puts a rad proc on targets so they more offten than not dont attack you when they get up if they get up they attack eachother instead of you

also did i say if you mod for more power str you can hit alot harder? just have to get everyones favourit trinity to top you up

NEXT

15m though,still pretty weak, it has to kill to drop the orbs, locks you into a specific weapon choice, enemies outside it's range still have a good chance of hitting you, has a long animation, the short range means more often than not enemies still aim for you anyway.

Try again.

[RazrOutlaw]

No, what makes Reckoning as eligible to be nerfed as Peacemaker?

And what's exactly eligible to be nerfed from peacemaker?. Because I gave you countless example of the diffrence between the "nuking" type of warframes, you wanna know what I can complain of oberon's reckoning? damage is split 50% impact (great when dealing with corpus), and 50% radiation (dealing with high level grineers, and also gives the confusion effect, great CC) furthermore it knocs all enemies targeted down & the enemies that weren't when the ability was casted but just came near it get blinded, cheap spammable ability with lots of CC, just like excalibur's old radial blind.

[RazrOutlaw]

15m though,still pretty weak, it has to kill to drop the orbs, locks you into a specific weapon choice, enemies outside it's range still have a good chance of hitting you, has a long animation, the short range means more often than not enemies still aim for you anyway.

Try again.

Did you even see the build he posted? 35 meter reckoning, long animation can be reduced with natural talent, and enemies still can hit you while you are at peacemaker, plus mesa turns stationary, oberon can cast smite, stunlock all enemies in place and then move, if mesa casts peacemaker and toggles it off when enemies are still alive she'll get instantly destroyed.

[XBlackLotusX]

15m though,still pretty weak, it has to kill to drop the orbs, locks you into a specific weapon choice, enemies outside it's range still have a good chance of hitting you, has a long animation, the short range means more often than not enemies still aim for you anyway.

Try again.

ooh you have just made my day :3 without a frost or limbo to keep mesa safe that 50m doesent do much good eather and even if it did can hardly peacemaker a nullifier and its friends in the bubble

 

you have to be setup in peacemaker befor enemys get into your range otherwise you die we dont all have the burst damage of true nuker frames

 

long animation natural talent

short range? im sure the build i posted the link to has 33m which is pretty much the radius of the whole platform in ODD

 

gg wp, NEXT, this time somone who actualy understands this game please

Edited September 1, 2015 by XBlackLotusX

[Alanthier]

They nerfed her damage back when they changed her to instantly enter peacemaker, hold to fire, and increase attack speed per target hit.  She used to literally crit at unranked peacemaker for 10k with NO strength increasing mods, and by rank 3 it was closer to 15k.  Now even WITH increasing mods, it doesn't go above 8k unless she gets a headshot with the proper damage type as a crit(eg. puncture on a heavy armor unit) and that's the only time she'll go above 4 digit hits.  Currently, she's balanced imo, because her energy drains, she can't benefit from trin's EV, and her damage seriously starts to fall off as the enemies get stronger. So without Corrosive projection on the whole team + Roar + Equinox's 3rd + Mirages total eclipse, you're not gonna even come close to the damage she would have been dishing out if they left her damage mechanics the way they were back when she was released.

[XBlackLotusX]

They nerfed her damage back when they changed her to instantly enter peacemaker, hold to fire, and increase attack speed per target hit.  She used to literally crit at unranked peacemaker for 10k with NO strength increasing mods, and by rank 3 it was closer to 15k.  Now even WITH increasing mods, it doesn't go above 8k unless she gets a headshot with the proper damage type as a crit(eg. puncture on a heavy armor unit) and that's the only time she'll go above 4 digit hits.  Currently, she's balanced imo, because her energy drains, she can't benefit from trin's EV, and her damage seriously starts to fall off as the enemies get stronger. So without Corrosive projection on the whole team + Roar + Equinox's 3rd + Mirages total eclipse, you're not gonna even come close to the damage she would have been dishing out if they left her damage mechanics the way they were back when she was released.

:3 i like you, you look at facts and think of the game in terms of balance and how more than 1 player would need to work towards somthing becoming stronger than exspected. unlike most of the forums "it stole my kill?!?! NERF NERF NERF!!!"

 

yep mesa was unbalanced now its fixed while its not the most entertaining stile of play its 1 ability not a stile of play people have just chose to use it as such :3

Edited September 1, 2015 by XBlackLotusX

[RazrOutlaw]

They nerfed her damage back when they changed her to instantly enter peacemaker, hold to fire, and increase attack speed per target hit.  She used to literally crit at unranked peacemaker for 10k with NO strength increasing mods, and by rank 3 it was closer to 15k.  Now even WITH increasing mods, it doesn't go above 8k unless she gets a headshot with the proper damage type as a crit(eg. puncture on a heavy armor unit) and that's the only time she'll go above 4 digit hits.  Currently, she's balanced imo, because her energy drains, she can't benefit from trin's EV, and her damage seriously starts to fall off as the enemies get stronger. So without Corrosive projection on the whole team + Roar + Equinox's 3rd + Mirages total eclipse, you're not gonna even come close to the damage she would have been dishing out if they left her damage mechanics the way they were back when she was released.

Peacemaker targets the enemy's torso to inflict damage, so isn't ever going to get a headshot, that's why you can kill corrupted vor with it, but I do agree with every other thing you said ^.^.

Edited September 1, 2015 by RazrOutlaw