Limbo The Invulnerable And Mesa The Untouchable

[Shozanakh]

All lazy nuke ults must go away, not only Peacemakers. Players have to play game, not just press 4 for win.

[FrostedMike]

I don't mind the look of both of them, honestly.

 

The abilitys do need change tho.

My main problem with Limbo is that for me he isn't very "practical". Probably not the word I was looking for, but I'll try explain: I can use Rift Walk, banish enemies one by one and kill them, but it takes too long is for me it's boring. I can use Cataclysm and kill everyone inside, but it does't really help your team mates.

The idea of the void mosters is great :D.

 

For Mesa's 4th: the Best Farmer in the Game Award gos to Mesa, for completing Draco countless times without any player skills and relaing on Trinity's EV. *Claps*.

Speaking of Draco, there is a new star chart coming "soon", meening that Draco might not be there for farming when DE will add it. Deal with it.

For real, Mesa need the skill you offered. My main problem with what you said is the accuracy: Mesa is the best gunslinger in the game, I think that the new skill should not have recoil at all.

[PCwarrior_99]

182

Ok, I'm gonna write down some ideas for "fixing" (just giving it a more concrete playable aspect) what you wrote.

 

LIMBO:

For what you wrote about Limbo I'm really agreeing, making the void more "alive" is a great idea as you can use it more dinamically.

(also I can give an example with Wolfenstein 2009, where you can go in a "veil" with its creatures, a nice advantage but you need to watch out from hitting them or they'll attack you)

Ability changes:

   -Banish: will throw enemies in the rift but won't damage them, it won't work to bosses and allies can perform a parkour move to exit

   -Rift Walk: throws Limbo into the rift, all nearby allies (except for rescue targets and operatives) will also be able to enter the rift but they have to stay close to you, this area is affected by power range and it's little by standard (20m diameter at max rank)

   -Rift Surge: the creatures of the rift will aid you in combat and attack any enemy that enters the rift, power strenght won't affect how much damage the creatures will deal, but it will affect the number of creatures that will attack the enemies, it's a feature that balances the fact that the creatures are invilnerable to all sorts of damage (also, this will distract the enemies, nice thing at higher levels when the damage won't be enough to kill some enemies)

   -Cataclysm: the same as it is now, but all the rift creatures inside the cataclysm will automatically become extremely hostile against enemies in the rift, when the cataclysm explodes all rift creatures inside it will disappear, some other will take their place after several seconds to not make this move OP

 

MESA:

For her I have only to talk about the ult since all the other abilities are nicely balanced and in synergy one with the other.

   -Peacemaker: Mesa will now shoot with her Regulators, she won't be able to wall jump/latch but all what she needs is firepower, the Regulators will shoot Velocitus-like projectiles (with bullet speed but still very fast) that will deal a little AoE damage (5m diameter splash area), those projectiles will also have an assisted aim, or better saying you just have to aim more less at the center and the bullets will automatically track the enemies that are in this aim area. The Regulators' damage output and AOE range/damage are affected by mods as well as the energy cost (still giving the limited time but more energy efficient by standard, more less like exalted blade), I was also thinking about making the fire rate affected by cast speed since this change will remove the machine gun-like windup time.

 

(P.S. I know I'm terrible at writing and it's always a single text wall when I write, try at least to not get asleep while reading)

[Dakillerson]

I dont think that limbo needs any change i think you have to find the way to play with him like in that video i think there are other frames that DE needs to work on first.

[AbstractLemons]

Rift monsters would be cool and provide the extra punch Limbo's abilites need.

 

I dont think that limbo needs any change i think you have to find the way to play with him like in that video i think there are other frames that DE needs to work on first.

He does I 'main' Limbo he is my favorite warframe his abilites are intended to be used with on team mates when needed but the meta has only accepted Mesa and Excal as ever okay to banish despite the beneifts he is able to provide by given team mates the oppurtunity to use their abilites to their full use while being mobile in an environment where they would normally depend on hiding behind Snow Globe.

 

Limbo is missing the punch he need in his abilites, although i enjoy his Tactical like play style he feels way too dependent on being Tactical that he is ineffective at facing enemies directly since his kit is so focuesd on traveling to the rift and the rift currently provides no means of actually dealing with combat. It is very effective at getting out, avoiding, and going around combat. 

 

This is coming from someone who uses himself as a decoy to turn enemies away from my team by 'tanking' them and using cataclysm as ameans to prevent the team from being flanked. He has flaws with his abilites that make it so he needs a team to use abilites like cataclysm without commiting suicide with it so he struggles at being competent with the actual fighting part of combat and needs to use tactics to be functional instead of mastered which is how should be.

 

The effects of the rift need to be buffed in some form or another as it is mainly  a set of restrictions. I use hit andr run style tactics use a syndicate weapon to compenate for the lack of actual fighting ability. once that happens he will be easier to make use and more rewarding and put him more on par with the other warframes who are built for combat. In short Limbo needs to fight just as much as he needs to use tactics it feels tactis are way too neccessary to use him at the moment. I still enjoy him but he needs change/buff in some way to cover that area that he is lacking in.

Edited September 4, 2015 by AbstractLemons

[Lavantant]

with mesa the one change i really wanna see would be an augment to her 1 wherein if the charged shot is a stealth kill you get another charged shot

AKA: use it on bows and snipers while playing stealthily and you get an amazing boost to your damage

[thelazyjaguar]

I think the primary problem with mesa's number 4 is not aimbot, but the range and rooting in place.  Considering other warframe's abilities auto-hit everything in range, they can be considered aimbot skills as well.  The insane range is what makes it OP/Boring.

 

I do think that your idea of an excaliber style rework would probably be the best.

 

In fact, i think making it like excaliber and valkyr's 4th abilities, might just be the way to go.

 

Her 4th ability could have the following qualities:

 

1. Change it to function from the melee button instead, but still autoaim  (mechanics already exist, just convert it over)

2. Give it its own unique stance with combinations of melee and gunplay depending on enemy range (think a combination of Grammaton Cleric and John Woo films)

3. Give it parkour based attacks (possibly more difficult mechanically)

4. Reduce the range to be like 50% more than the largest melee weapons when modded (affected by power range)

5. change the energy draw to be a 5 per activation (affected by power efficiency)

6. Per activation fire 10 rounds at targets in range, with priority on closest ones (affected by power strength...or leave static and affect damage)

7. Augment it's power by either gunblade based weapons or secondary weapons (whatever makes more sense)

 

Her 1st ability can be changed to have synergy with the following:

 

1. Change it to apply 300% multishot at 100% charge for ~8 seconds after release (multishot % affected by power strength and duration affected by power duration)

2.  Let the mulitshot from this ability affect her 4th ability. (i.e. go from gun slinger single shot, to robocop/cleric burst fire)

 

Together, these two changes could give Mesa her own undeniable style and feel, while still being effective and not boring for everyone.

Edited September 4, 2015 by thelazyjaguar

[Machayna]

I picked up Limbo finally as the result of wanting to form an opinion on his skills due to all the intrigue going on about him.  Honestly after playing him  for a few days I don't see him as a troll frame any more than Loki or Nova.  Seriously had someone playing a nova set up multiple wormholes to block the evac point on a corpus map and I've had loki switch teleport me into some pretty bad situations.  People who are playing to be a troll will find a way.  Even down to the fact that you can't shoot through people so they will follow you and try to block you from shooting anything.

I think that quite a bit of the way Limbo works right now works just fine and I actually think he's an amazing frame that seems to fit my playstyle pretty well.  He does have some issues but those are there probably to balance out the possitives of being in the void.  Fait could you maybe explain what you mean by "he breaks the game".  Not in a condescending way I just don't understand what it is that does that in your mind.

My problem with Limbo is the inconsistency built into him.  You can't take a power cell with you into the rift.....or a data node....or loot.....but you CAN take your guns and melee weapons....??  Now I know that they did this to bring in more of that risk factor.  You have to be out of the rift to do these things and that's the risk of being squishy and outside the void....but it's inconsistent.  I think they need to pick a direction with it honestly.  Cataclysm in my mind should be Limbo taking a whole area and shifting it to the rift.  While inside cataclysm you can pick up loot and interact with objects because everything in the bubble is inside the rift.  I can see how hard that would be to code though because you'd have to deal with intersection points and such and the other issue would be similar to loki invis.  There would be no reason to leave the rift similar to loki's who run missions with perma invis. If they decide to go the other was where your weapons can't come with you then here's what I suggest.  It's probably a bad idea but I kinda like it.

I think that Limbo should convert his weapons to rift weapons when he enters the rift.  Similar to equinox where she has forms.  These rift weapons would only be for him and only while he's in the rift.  Only Limbo can enter the rift.  He can't banish other people.  The drain while he's in the rift would be similar to excal's exalted blade but it would have to be a lower drain since excal can still pick up energy orbs and limbo can't since he's in the void.  Either that or have the initial toggle to enter the void be minimal.

I was toying with the idea of having a different set of skills entirely but I don't think it's necessary although this is where you could do the void monsters thing.  Giving him passive buffs while in the void though might be a good idea.  I.e. rift armor which reduces damage only while in the rift.  rift shot gives extra damage per shot.  then his other abilities would just be centered around bringing enemies into or out of the rift in a group or a single target.  No additional energy is gained while in the void (negotiable).

For his last ability instead of cataclysm I think you'd want to again be consistent and not bring other people to the rift with you so the big bubble might be out.  However it would be nice to have a way for him to mitigate damage outside the rift and bring some group mechanics in so I was thinking something like "rift disruption" where instead of a solid no one can shoot out or in it provides a set damage reduction to the group so long as they are within range of Limbo.  Similar to the aura that equinox has but without the falloff as you get further away.  Basically Limbo is sending the enemies bullets to the void and messing with them so they do less damage when they come back.

 

I think it would be an interesting idea anyway.  Kind of a long post.  Sorry =O

[Tenedranox]

Just an idea by me: change how the rift works. My idea would be that all targets in the rift have a radius around them, in which the rift also applies, additionaly when limbo or an banished ally fires in the rift onto an enemy, he can hit him, but the enemy will be auto banished and uppon dead a area around the killed enemy will be also become "rifted" for a duration, affected by power duration (enemys getting killed while they are in such a "rifted" area will not create a new one but will reset the timer). This changes would greatly switch how u mod limbo, because when u breaking the game by banishing all over the place ur mates and playin full duration u will get punished hard. But in my eyes it will give him a nice twist in usability, because it will work against this breking the game mechanic and adds the possibility to decide which group of enemies u wanna fight. Collecting items during banish would be nice though, but maybe disable carrier in rift ;)

 

As for there style...well i think its fine, because the warframe is like a second skin for the tenno isnt it? So put on clothes makes kinda sence...DE is remaking the idea of the warframes. Have seen the concept art for the new brawler frame? Also he/it got clothes on...seems like this is what DE wants in regard to design.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Dragonblack175

[syminical]

I've only been playing warframe for a few months, but, limbo was the only thing I REALLY wanted when I started out. He looked incredible and I worked really hard to get him as fast as I could. Was I disappointed when I actually tried his abilities? Slightly, but I quickly decided it didn't matter to me. Limbo has been my main warframe since he finished building and it's because of his looks. Other warframes have abilities that help them in combat or support their team, but Limbo has stuff that looks cool and can support his team.

 

I personally think that the "he doesn't have the warframe suit look" accusations are silly. He is literally wearing a suit, AND it looks like it's made out of durable material (unlike mesa who does look liek cloth). When he lifts his hat there's a bunch of metal and crystal/etc, theres no way cloth would work like that. He's no different than warframes who have skin tight material like nyx / nekro / mirage / etc.

 

Basically, I just rely on my weapons to clear rooms and I depend on his abilities to look kewl. My favourite ability is rift surge, because it makes your warframe's entire body glow like you're holding a sabotage key and you get those nifty particles around you which look really cool when you copter (I'm always going to call it coptering). He's also really great for spy missions / capture / rescue / defense and I can solo really well with him. I don't expect anyone to read this, but I felt like I needed to say something here because he's my favourite frame. <3

 

PLEASE DONT CHANGE HOW RIFT SURGE LOOKS

Edited September 6, 2015 by syminical

[arsala]

No changes needed. they all ready added nullifiers and Ancient disruptors and more recently  the Juggernaut. Power creep with enemies is insane at lvl's 80 and above. These frames may seem OP at low levels and even at mid levels. But trust me, no single frame can work by itself end game. And that is how DE intends it be played. They want players working in well thought out teams working to over come the creep. 

[(PSN)TLR_Cruentus]

Stingray321 Today, 03:58PM

Would the void monsters be mutated and misshapen since they live in the void?

(Copy pasted that since i have no idea how to quote stuff on the phone)

On topic, basically Limbo has nothing to do with the Void. I know alot of ppl refer to his abilities with the Void but its false. He banishes them into the Rift. Which is a completely different and from the Void independent plane of existance. (Kinda his very own dimension?)

Well it's the plane of existence he discovered and died to between the void and our plane I wouldn't be surprised if it had its own residents myself.

[Sempiterra]

 

2. Give it its own unique stance with combinations of melee and gunplay depending on enemy range (think a combination of Grammaton Cleric and John Woo films)

 

So much this :O Shatter shield and shooting gallery already complement melee combat very nicely so this concept is brilliant.