Stances, Syndicates....(And) Problems For New And Old Players.

[Shehriazad]

First of all: Every time again and again it makes me angry whenever I introduce someone new to the game. 


EVERY time it's like :
"Hey, there is this awesome melee combo system, but you cannot use it yet because melee combos are actually something that you have to farm for with a ridiculously low dropchance....oh and also I can't give you even any of the common ones' because you're MR0...so you will not be able to experience the melee system for 2 days at least"

It's obviously equally bad for Veterans at times. Got that new awesome weapon from the last reinforcements? Well that new stance only drops from some drone with a low spawn chance, is a rare mod and you cannot use Nekros to raise your chances...also your chance is approx 0.01% per kill. 


This is not okay....and not only that, this system is lacking any sort of common sense. So an enemy drops some weird bottle looking thing...and suddenly I'm a master of this weapon? Not to mention those things drop off of enemies that have no relation to the mod AT ALL. (Stalker being an exception here I guess...since he at least uses melee weaponry)



Before I come up with a possible solution to that I have to mention something else that is a problem more for the newer players. 

The total lack of guidance for new players. You(DE) outright expects that we the playerbase always help them out and explain everything...but this is not an appropriate way for some reasons. 

1:No actual mentoring system.

2: Many ingame systems do not have any real pointers of explanation and must be actively looked for through the codex...and the existence and function of the codex is like mentioned just once in a very "well eh, that's the Codex, I guess" manner.

3:Not every player is as social and language barriers might be a thing. Not as much for the U.S....but everywhere else.


A good example of total lack of guidance would be the Syndicate system. Since you need a higher MR just to unlock access to that part of the game...new players will often just miss it or simply not know enough about it. And especially the more hidden away Simaris is often missed out on. 


I know that DE is trying to do many things at once...but this is really really bad. Many of the people I invite also often panic after seeing the store simply because they will instantly think that EVERYTHING in the game has a paywall...even if that is not the case. 


But I think at least some things can be fixed by some "smaller" changes.


Add a Newbie/Stance Syndicate that you get access to starting from Rank 0.

(Many would qualify for this, Ordis, Lotus, a new character...you name it. But basically this syndicate would focus on the ancient Tenno knowledge of Warfare)

 

-This syndicate would rank up from 0 to 30..together with your actual mastery rank.

 

-This syndicate would need its' own score system for rewards you can pick from it. Maybe based on things like number of missions done and successful mastery rank tests or even as a reward for mentoring new players. ("Were you happy with your mentor? Give him a thumbs up!)

 

-Every rank up would then give you the planned rank up rewards via that syndicate(rank up rewards have been planned for a while now), this makes it easier to put it in place via lore. The rank ups will also tell you what FEATURES of the game will also be available. (For example you can now get access to Archwing/Uranus or you can now do the Earth boss)

 

-Stances will be available rewards from this Syndicate. They unlock as reward at the appropriate rank. So if melee weapon is available at Rank X first (and no lower version is available) that's when you get access to stance X. Too keep currently rare stances more valuable they will cost more points. So while an Iron Phoenix would only cost 5 points, a Crimson Dervish would cost 25.
^ This also means that stances can be removed from the droptables. 
^ This also makes event stances more "sensical". Event stances are simply lost knowledge that can be added to your "library" via other means and might then be added to the collection of the syndicates' knowledge later on once the martial knowledge has been analyzed (basically how event mods later often end up as normal rewards)

 

-Market items for Quests are moved to the syndicate and given out at the appropriate rank so new players will instantly know when this stuff is actually available to them.

-As mentioned before mentoring system will also be tied to this. Mentors will also be granted scores if they are doing a good job and possibly given access to certain gimmicks (mentor sigils, mentor Syandanas). Abuse of the system can be prevented by a few measures, so let's just assume we're all honorable for now.





So yea...that would be MY idea to fix this issue I have....not sure how others see it.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Shehriazad

[Archistopheles]

Stance mods are a bit like Warframe Ability mods in that you could get rid of them completely and build the combos into the weapon itself.

[OniDax]

For the most part I like this. I don't think there should be a special mastery syndicate, though. I think the Lotus should serve as a syndicate (with all players starting out apart of the Lotus syndicate). Then later on, players could join other syndicates.

 

As for mastery, well, I think the entire mastery system needs to be reworked. I think mastery should be based on a combination of XP gained and mission types played, as well as certain accomplishments in these missions. So, basically, just about all of the statistics that you see when you view your profile should be factors that go into mastery rank. I don't think mastery should continue to be based solely on maxing out items. That's not rewarding to players who find and stick a specific playstyle based around specific frames, weapons, and sentinels/kubrows. I would put more emphasis on diverse mission exposure and total XP gain, and less on frames, weapons, and sentinels/kubrows. For some small support of what I suggest, look at the mastery tests. What are we tested on? It's not on specific frames, weapons, sentinels, or kubrows. It's not on all frames, weapons, sentinels, or kubrows. It's on our skill/time spent doing in-game tasks. Revamping the mastery system to one that is focused on gameplay, and not on items, would allow for a much better mastery system that isn't dependent on maxing out "mastery fodder" weapons and frames. Then, with a mastery requirement for certain high-level, high-powered weapons like the Boltor Prime, MR-restricting that weapon becomes less about trying to limit how many people use the weapon, and more about rewarding that weapon to players who have spent the time in gameplay to earn that weapon.

 

As well, I think that, with regards to Syndicates, Syndicate weapons should not have a mastery requirement. Instead, Syndicate weapons should have an cumulative XP requirement for weapons. Now, certain missions can reward more XP, certainly. So, I would suggest that 1) more ranks be added to each Syndicate, 2) the cost of all Syndicate weapons be increased (and Syndicate armor and syandanas can be set at the current price of the Syndicate secondaries), and 3) that each Syndicate rank require a MR-like test that is suited to the theme of that Syndicate. As well, I think that Syndicate XP should contribute to mastery rank.

 

As for new player guidance, the game could use the Lotus as a starter Syndicate to guide new players through the game. Part of what would help is if the game would literally guide you through all of the components of the Liset, including the Codex. Right now, there's just a new player quest, which guides players through basic gameplay. Thing is, that isn't enough to help players. But if new players could be guided through an unskippable tour of the Liset and the game features that they need to see to understand the game, then that would ensure that at least all new players would be exposed to most parts of the game.

 

As for drop rates. Well, yeah, that needs to be looked at. Thing is, I really don't think DE is serious about fixing drop rates, because they can just use lines of code to bypass the entire RNG system. And, if they don't actually play the game regularly (some do play, but I don't think those responsible for loot and drop rates play the game), then they'll never really take seriously the complaints about drop rates. Thing is, I understand that DE wants to encourage players to buy plat, but they aren't hurting for money, so they don't need to be so drastic in that aim. RIght now, drop rates are way too drastic. IMO, DE should bring the drop rates closer together, instead of having a bunch of items being very common, and then rare items being so rare that only a fraction of players will ever see those items drop. That's too rare imo. Making drop rates a bit more reasonable would be a good thing.

 

As for the game as a whole: I think Warframe, in its current state, is a game that is unfriendly to new players, and one that is only friendly to high-MR veteran players. It's a system that favors those who have merely maxed out (but don't necessarily use) every item in the game, and one that doesn't encourage (because it doesn't reward) diversity of playstyle. What this means for the new player is that s/he is presented with the various items in the game, and not with other useful information. Why? Because the only that matters in the game is acquiring and maxing out an item before immediately moving on to the next in order to gain mastery points. The game is not friendly toward helping players because players are meant to simply buy platinum and spend it on a new frame, weapon, or sentinel, and to max that item and then move on to another frame, weapon, or sentinel. It doesn't matter what mission they play or how they play it, as long as they are acquiring an item with plat and then maxing that item out. That's the game and what it favors in its current state. If the mastery system would be overhauled, such that mastery points are rewarded as you play the game (not acquire items), creating a natural increase in mastery rank the longer you play the game, with a shift in focus from items to mission gameplay, as well as a vast improvement to the drop rates of mods and parts, then you could have a game that out of necessity would provide guidance for new players to learn the game and its various features, and not just its frames, sentinels, and weapons. And, ultimately, you could have a game where people play to enjoy the gameplay, not merely to farm for resources in order to acquire and max out items.

[OptimumBow0]

Stance mods are a bit like Warframe Ability mods in that you could get rid of them completely and build the combos into the weapon itself.

Yep.

 

On the topic of a syndicate, Teshin seems to be a prime candidate. Also, I think tying the availability of stances to the rank of the weapon itself, to reflect your mastery over it, would be a better way of going about it. The less-rare stance would become fully available at weapon rank 30 and Teshin can go send you on a quest to master the comparatively more valuable one at some point. Or whatever, I'm just pitching an older idea.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Teshin as noob syndicate and conclave/ PVP syndicate would be nice.

 

Yep.

 

On the topic of a syndicate, Teshin seems to be a prime candidate. Also, I think tying the availability of stances to the rank of the weapon itself, to reflect your mastery over it, would be a better way of going about it. The less-rare stance would become fully available at weapon rank 30 and Teshin can go send you on a quest to master the comparatively more valuable one at some point. Or whatever, I'm just pitching an older idea.

 

A stance test? That would be better than the endless grind I suppose. +1

[WhisperByte]

Stance mods are a bit like Warframe Ability mods in that you could get rid of them completely and build the combos into the weapon itself.

B-b-but if stances were part of weapons then I would have less to do. And market economy would suffer. We can't reduce the grind. Shame on you, sir, for suggesting such nonsense.

 

Back when stances were just announced, DEvs said that we would be unlocking combos by leveling up our melee weapons. So originally combos were supposed to be part of the weapons. And then the update hit and DEvs were like "Nope, you have to grind for functionality now"

Edited September 9, 2015 by WhisperByte

[Shehriazad]

"Nope, you have to grind for functionality now"

Yepp...not sure what devil was riding them when they came to the conclusion that this was a good idea...because it was a terrible idea. Many weapons are essentially useless without the combos....this pretty much means that BASIC functionality has to be grinded for when in fact it really should be readily available. 

At this point I don't even care how they do it...but if 2k15 is really the year of quality...they need to address this issue...and not move it to "meh, maybe 2016". Issues like that really alienate new players and annoy the crap out of old players. 

Sure...right now some of the rare drop stances can make you like 5-30 plat or something... (Only event ones' really have a good value) but is that really worth it? I say no. It looks new players out of an important part of the game and makes new somewhat bad until the stance is aquired...sure, you get some basic spam attacks...but in most cases that really leaves a lot to desire. And having to grind for days to weeks for FUNCTIONALITY (Glaive stance anyone?) is just wrong.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

"Those combos look BA where can I get that stance?" Me "it doesn't exist anymore." This is very bad game design.

[Shehriazad]

"Those combos look BA where can I get that stance?" Me "it doesn't exist anymore." This is very bad game design.

That too is very bad design...yes....but I can at least somewhat understand the deal with timed event exclusives...as most things at some point make it into the game later down the line.