De Have Made Two New Frames And A Valkyr Skin.....

[OniDax]

 

DE never made Wukong (the new monkey frame). It was made by Changyou, the Chinese company that handles Warframe China.So DE has made 1 frame and 1 skin. And alot of other stuff

 

You're wrong. DE makes all of the assets. Changyou markets it.

[SurryCurry]

So, super long rant post - there's a TL;DR at the bottom.

 

Why does anyone care? It's a skin. If it isn't a skin, it's just another Excal. If everyone can get it, how is it like Excal Prime in any way? It's a gift. Live with it.

 

Honestly. I am losing patience with the lack of patience regarding Umbra. That and the osmosis of misinformation that seems to be so prevalent regarding Excal Umbra. The only reason people are having such an unmanageable time waiting for the damn thing is because they think they're getting what amounts to a replacement for Excalibur Prime, and I find that to be one of the most horrible and venomous notions in the entire community.

 

Taking a step back, my opinion when it comes to the whole issue of Excal Prime being exclusive to Founders is that it's a well-deserved reward for the people who decided to buy into the Founder's Pack. I had a chance and I decided not to, because money reasons, and I'm fine with that.

 

But the constant whining about Excal Prime really grates on your nerves after two (or more) years - it's childish entitlement. (I actually have an addendum to add to this, I'll put it at the end.) But that's only my opinion on that matter. The big issue for me now is that people are getting uppity for, what I think is, no damn reason when it comes to Umbra because they think it's a replacement for Excal Prime - and that's only making the situation worse. 

 

What I believe may be the fact of the matter is that the whining has put DE into a corner regarding the release of Umbra. They went through negotiations - across language barriers, mind you, and it's not so easy to get in touch when you don't have a dedicated 'bridge' between two companies - to see what exactly China's version of Excal Umbra was about, and now DE is probably deciding how to approach the concept of Umbra frames; are they skins? Are they complete frames? Who knows - DE may not have decided 100% what to make of them.

 

And that's why there's very little information. The concept of Umbra frames was, to my understanding, 90%-100% ChangYou's invention - probably stemming from contractual agreements with DE regarding the Founder's Pack and Excal Prime, that DE had to give the okay to ship. So now they're probably in the process of tweaking the model, deciding how to ship it, designing stats in the case that it's a frame as opposed to a skin and balancing it to the 'Prime' Umbra in China... And so on. And the whole reason why there's such a fuss is because the community thinks it's a big deal, and DE knows quite well how sensitive they are to anything Prime related and don't want to stir needless controversy before they've decided how to treat Umbras in their entirety.

 

Tell me, do any of you CARE about the eventual Umbra Mag? Umbra Volt? I don't exactly see any of you making such a fuss about the unnamed Trinity skin coming out, or the Temple Guardian Rhino, or the Saryn skin coming out - all of which have received about as much information as the state of Excal Umbra.

 

tl;dr: untwist your knickers and wait patiently, because it's just the usual and it's nothing that special. If DE wants to keep quiet until release, respect that decision instead of questioning why, because it's ultimately your faults for making the situation much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

I'm usually not so heated, but I think that this is a serious case of community entitlement and that it's ultimately venomous and unnecessary. I'm sincerely sorry if I stepped on anybody's toes, but I really think this is not how business should be conducted within the community regarding future releases like these.

 

Addendum:

In regards to what I said above regarding 'childish entitlement' and Excal Prime, this is mainly in reference to people (who weren't around for the Founder's Pack) begging for Excal Prime to be reintroduced on PC - and DE's official response in regards to these requests.

 

The issue I have with the response is that it extended to the console versions, and I believe they should have gotten the chance to pick up Excal Prime, at least; the reason I call it 'childish entitlement' is because of the ridiculous backlash on both sides regarding the decision not to ship it to Console - and the indication that, if they had shipped Excal Prime to consoles, the PC community would have been all up in arms about exclusivity rights - DE was damned if they do, damned if they don't, so it was simply safer to stick to principles and not ship it at all to consoles.

 

A similar backlash happened when Umbra Prime was announced in China. Forum threads and toxic Youtube comments had the vocal majority stating that it was, excuse my French, bullS#&$ that China was getting their own "prime" despite ChangYou's Warframe being an entirely new venture and completely disconnected to the rest of the world. Huh? How does that make any sense?

 

(I believe it should have just been Excal Prime, if I wasn't clear, but DE's protection of the Founders idea is what led to Umbra Excal Prime's creation.)

 

So that's why I think it's childish - that people would act so toxic to the point that certain arrangements must be made to avoid stepping on toes, as opposed to something done out of courtesy and consideration, an arrangement opened up by Digital Extremes themselves as a gesture of gratitude to their very first supporters. How screwed up is that?

Edited September 23, 2015 by SurryCurry

[Etsoree]

They've gone silent before on things then suddenly popped them out.

 

 

I hope UMBRA excal comes as a skin i can use to cover up excal primes weird face.

 

You say that but your icon is Excal Prime?

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

So, super long rant post - there's a TL;DR at the bottom.

 

 

Honestly. I am losing patience with the lack of patience regarding Umbra. That and the osmosis of misinformation that seems to be so prevalent regarding Excal Umbra. The only reason people are having such an unmanageable time waiting for the damn thing is because they think they're getting what amounts to a replacement for Excalibur Prime, and I find that to be one of the most horrible and venomous notions in the entire community.

 

Taking a step back, my opinion when it comes to the whole issue of Excal Prime being exclusive to Founders is that it's a well-deserved reward for the people who decided to buy into the Founder's Pack. I had a chance and I decided not to, because money reasons, and I'm fine with that.

 

But the constant whining about Excal Prime really grates on your nerves after two (or more) years - it's childish entitlement. (I actually have an addendum to add to this, I'll put it at the end.) But that's only my opinion on that matter. The big issue for me now is that people are getting uppity for, what I think is, no damn reason when it comes to Umbra because they think it's a replacement for Excal Prime - and that's only making the situation worse. 

 

What I believe may be the fact of the matter is that the whining has put DE into a corner regarding the release of Umbra. They went through negotiations - across language barriers, mind you, and it's not so easy to get in touch when you don't have a dedicated 'bridge' between two companies - to see what exactly China's version of Excal Umbra was about, and now DE is probably deciding how to approach the concept of Umbra frames; are they skins? Are they complete frames? Who knows - DE may not have decided 100% what to make of them.

 

And that's why there's very little information. The concept of Umbra frames was, to my understanding, 90%-100% ChangYou's invention - probably stemming from contractual agreements with DE regarding the Founder's Pack and Excal Prime, that DE had to give the okay to ship. So now they're probably in the process of tweaking the model, deciding how to ship it, designing stats in the case that it's a frame as opposed to a skin and balancing it to the 'Prime' Umbra in China... And so on. And the whole reason why there's such a fuss is because the community thinks it's a big deal, and DE knows quite well how sensitive they are to anything Prime related and don't want to stir needless controversy before they've decided how to treat Umbras in their entirety.

 

Tell me, do any of you CARE about the eventual Umbra Mag? Umbra Volt? I don't exactly see any of you making such a fuss about the unnamed Trinity skin coming out, or the Temple Guardian Rhino, or the Saryn skin coming out - all of which have received about as much information as the state of Excal Umbra.

 

tl;dr: untwist your knickers and wait patiently, because it's just the usual and it's nothing that special. If DE wants to keep quiet until release, respect that decision instead of questioning why, because it's ultimately your faults for making the situation much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

I'm usually not so heated, but I think that this is a serious case of community entitlement and that it's ultimately venomous and unnecessary. I'm sincerely sorry if I stepped on anybody's toes, but I really think this is not how business should be conducted within the community regarding future releases like these.

 

Addendum:

In regards to what I said above regarding 'childish entitlement' and Excal Prime, this is mainly in reference to people (who weren't around for the Founder's Pack) begging for Excal Prime to be reintroduced on PC - and DE's official response in regards to these requests.

 

The issue I have with the response is that it extended to the console versions, and I believe they should have gotten the chance to pick up Excal Prime, at least; the reason I call it 'childish entitlement' is because of the ridiculous backlash on both sides regarding the decision not to ship it to Console - and the indication that, if they had shipped Excal Prime to consoles, the PC community would have been all up in arms about exclusivity rights - DE was damned if they do, damned if they don't, so it was simply safer to stick to principles and not ship it at all to consoles.

 

A similar backlash happened when Umbra Prime was announced in China. Forum threads and toxic Youtube comments had the vocal majority stating that it was, excuse my French, bullS#&$ that China was getting their own "prime" despite ChangYou's Warframe being an entirely new venture and completely disconnected to the rest of the world. Huh? How does that make any sense?

 

(I believe it should have just been Excal Prime, if I wasn't clear, but DE's protection of the Founders idea is what led to Umbra Excal Prime's creation.)

 

So that's why I think it's childish - that people would act so toxic to the point that certain arrangements must be made to avoid stepping on toes, as opposed to something done out of courtesy and consideration, an arrangement opened up by Digital Extremes themselves as a gesture of gratitude to their very first supporters. How screwed up is that?

 

Well, first of all, nobody here flames on this particular thread because we will never get Excalibur Prime. The Founders supported the game and that is a fact, and most of the player-base respect that. That case is officially closed and has been for a while. However, it still doesn't stop that feeling of disappointment from new players when they enter the game and discover that the poster child for this very game, has an inaccessible Prime variant.

 

We are not bashing the Founder's, we are not gloating in their faces and those who do are, as you say, very childish. This new Excalibur Umbra, drew attention because it was the second Excalibur that wasn't just a skin and the way it was found, was not an official statement from DE, but from someone who was browsing ChangYou's Warframe website, so it looked a little shady. Since Excalibur was getting a very Prime-like variant that was exclusive to China players, everyone went a bit crazy because when the original Founders package was released, barely anyone had heard of Warframe and the game was in its barest of stages and without their help, Warframe probably wouldn't be where it was now.

 

Now, the game is very successful and has joined the ranks of commonly known sci-fi MMO's. Subsequently, when its poster child gets another upgrade, people start to question as to why this would be exclusive when the game is so successful, that there is virtually no need for another Founder's package. If DE had just advertised another frame, say Wukong, people really wouldn't have collectively lost their minds about the situation.

 

And we have seen a lot of work on the alternative skins for Rhino, Saryn and Trinity. The latest Devstreams show Mynki working on a model of the Temple Guardian skin and we have seen rendering of the exclusive melee weapon that will come with him.

 

We continue to wait, but when DE simply ignore the comments about Umbra in the latest Devstream instead of momentarily addressing it with a 'We are continuing to work on the situation, just give a little more time.' they paint themselves into a corner.

 

We truly do not know whether DE have set in stone that Umbra's will be a new line of Warframe variants, because DE have only given one statement on the matter, and DE has a history of backtracking on certain things.

 

When Rebecca said that a new FAQ would be incoming, detailing the situation about Umbra, everyone was A-ok with that. But as I have said so many times; that was two months ago. So either ChangYou is running circles around DE, or they don't want to share the information that we might not be getting Umbra after all. I do not care whether either of the previous scenarios are true or not, just a small bit of info on what is going would be appreciated. We are not demanding that DE give us Umbra within the next three days, we just want a simple bit of up-to-date information on the status quo.

 

China's version of Warframe, is not a completely different game or venture. The only reason our version wasn't released there was because of China's Great Firewall which censors pretty much anything Western that doesn't fit their 'cultural needs'. It is a simple repaint of what we have called 'Star Armour' and they have refitted the lore as well, lets not forget those pictures of a Mag with hair. But it is still the exact same game with the exact same gameplay, character models, level designs etc. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by (PS4)Redemption_015

[Gemenai]

Just give me already my Sancti Umbra Oberon Prime <_<...

[SurryCurry]

The thing is, the whole issue of Excalibur Prime's exclusivity goes hand-in-hand with the rabid desire for news and clarity on Excalibur Umbra. I believe you cannot write them off as different entities, and that's why I wrote that entire post.

 

It wasn't my intention at all to bring attention to anybody "flaming" Founders, it just so happened that I wanted to explain my entire stance in one go; thing is, Excal Prime is the symbol of early adopters in Warframe - it does not matter how popular or how supported Warframe is, it has always been intended as a symbol of support and loyalty, regardless of success.

 

I digress, DE has said consistently that Umbra is coming. But that's the extent of the news - that is a fact that can not be denied, no matter the issue about the FAQ or the lack of depth. Yes, the promise of a better FAQ was two months ago and people want it on paper, but consider how difficult that is when you're trying to decide what exactly to do about the Umbra series as a whole. That was the point of my first post, further down when I clarified what I believed was the fact of the matter. (Which, again, is just my belief.)

 

Also, Redemption, you seem to confuse DE and ChangYou quite a bit, perhaps stemming from a belief that DE has total control over what happens in China - which is not at all the case. I apologize if this assumption is incorrect, but when you say "there is virtually no need for another Founder's package," that belies a bit of ignorance about China's market. (Which is fine, nobody should be expected to know these things off-hand.)

 

I wanted to add this to my first post, but I didn't have a good place to fit it: release packages, like Warframe's Founder's Pack, are extremely vital to the Chinese gaming market. It is nothing like it is over here - it is a necessity, especially for games from the West. It serves as advertisement as well as incentive to pick up the game.

 

The fact that DE nixed the whole "Excalibur Prime" in China deal means that ChangYou had to resort to providing its own variant and that was greenlit by DE - but nothing else beyond that. ChangYou did not have time to develop an entirely new frame that would effectively be the poster-child for China. (In fact, if Wu Kong were the poster-child, that would cause a similar mess to what we are seeing here, but in a different regard.)

 

But again, I digress.

 

What I want to convey is that I believe DE does not want to rush any news of Umbra, because that would give false impressions about something that they have not decided 100% of the way. Sure, it would be nice to have a confirmation of all of this - but that's not exactly the smartest business move.

 

All they can say with certainty is that it's coming, and I am personally fine with that - we don't need to know much more until they have finally decided everything with certainty. In fact, I think it would suck if we got information that ended up being out-dated, as was the case with the original FAQ - which was put out due to the massive initial push for information.

 

You can speculate about whether ChangYou is running circles around DE, and speculate about all of the complications that brings or what have you, that is completely fine within reason, but at the end of the day there is a reason there is a lack of information about Umbra and I do not believe it has anything at all to do with ill will or distrust in the players, so the amount of vitriol when it comes to demanding information about Umbra is toxic and unnecessary and (in my belief) stems from a toxic place - Excalibur Prime's exclusivity and what Excal Umbra 'means' for the Prime series as a whole.

 

I'm going further down the rabbit hole, and I hope I haven't offended anybody with these clarifications. Always gotta be careful and considerate and what not.

Edited September 23, 2015 by SurryCurry

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

just sit tight, DE will get it out when its stable 

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

The thing is, the whole issue of Excalibur Prime's exclusivity goes hand-in-hand with the rabid desire for news and clarity on Excalibur Umbra. I believe you cannot write them off as different entities, and that's why I wrote that entire post.

It wasn't my intention at all to bring attention to anybody "flaming" Founders, it just so happened that I wanted to explain my entire stance in one go; thing is, Excal Prime is the symbol of early adopters in Warframe - it does not matter how popular or how supported Warframe is, it has always been intended as a symbol of support and loyalty, regardless of success.

I digress, DE has said consistently that Umbra is coming. But that's the extent of the news - that is a fact that can not be denied, no matter the issue about the FAQ or the lack of depth. Yes, the promise of a better FAQ was two months ago and people want it on paper, but consider how difficult that is when you're trying to decide what exactly to do about the Umbra series as a whole. That was the point of my first post, further down when I clarified what I believed was the fact of the matter. (Which, again, is just my belief.)

Also, Redemption, you seem to confuse DE and ChangYou quite a bit, perhaps stemming from a belief that DE has total control over what happens in China - which is not at all the case. I apologize if this assumption is incorrect, but when you say "there is virtually no need for another Founder's package," that belies a bit of ignorance about China's market. (Which is fine, nobody should be expected to know these things off-hand.)

I wanted to add this to my first post, but I didn't have a good place to fit it: release packages, like Warframe's Founder's Pack, are extremely vital to the Chinese gaming market. It is nothing like it is over here - it is a necessity, especially for games from the West. It serves as advertisement as well as incentive to pick up the game.

The fact that DE nixed the whole "Excalibur Prime" in China deal means that ChangYou had to resort to providing its own variant and that was greenlit by DE - but nothing else beyond that. ChangYou did not have time to develop an entirely new frame that would effectively be the poster-child for China. (In fact, if Wu Kong were the poster-child, that would cause a similar mess to what we are seeing here, but in a different regard.)

But again, I digress.

What I want to convey is that I believe DE does not want to rush any news of Umbra, because that would give false impressions about something that they have not decided 100% of the way. Sure, it would be nice to have a confirmation of all of this - but that's not exactly the smartest business move.

All they can say with certainty is that it's coming, and I am personally fine with that - we don't need to know much more until they have finally decided everything with certainty. In fact, I think it would suck if we got information that ended up being out-dated, as was the case with the original FAQ - which was put out due to the massive initial push for information.

You can speculate about whether ChangYou is running circles around DE, and speculate about all of the complications that brings or what have you, that is completely fine within reason, but at the end of the day there is a reason there is a lack of information about Umbra and I do not believe it has anything at all to do with ill will or distrust in the players, so the amount of vitriol when it comes to demanding information about Umbra is toxic and unnecessary and (in my belief) stems from a toxic place - Excalibur Prime's exclusivity and what Excal Umbra 'means' for the Prime series as a whole.

I'm going further down the rabbit hole, and I hope I haven't offended anybody with these clarifications. Always gotta be careful and considerate and what not.

DE has only stated once that Umbra's are coming, so it isn't consistent.

I know DE has very little control over what happens in China. ChangYou are the publishers of their version and they can ask for specific content from DE, but I know DE don't directly control it, given the obvious evidence that ChangYou have stolen unofficial fan art and created non-canon depictions of Mag and Excal.

But you have many fair points my friend and I completely respect that.

[PEPIYEA]

1 month=1 year

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

I would be fine if they would tell us that they are making some changes to his stats and appearance but absolutely no information is completely unacceptable. 

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

I would be fine if they would tell us that they are making some changes to his stats and appearance but absolutely no information is completely unacceptable.

My point exactly.

Edited September 23, 2015 by (PS4)Redemption_015

[SurryCurry]

Except they have already briefly mentioned the changes to appearance, which is a tiny lack of gold. Otherwise, it's practically the same. On top of that, like I kept pointing out, it's not possible to announce something that isn't concretely decided.

 

"No information" would be an over-exaggeration.