Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Every week this forum is loaded with topics that turn into giant flame wars. Yes, it sucks that small clans that aren't willing to expand can't build a dojo as clans that decided to grow or were massive already. Yes, it is very bad for business and trust to tell someone you are giving them a gift exclusively and then they turn around and give it to everyone. Neither of these topics are being dealt with in a mature manner though. Insulting someone else does not make his/her point wrong nor does it make the attacker's point right. There are two sides to both of these stories, and honestly it should be well within the community's ability to discuss them like mature, rational adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supern00b Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) No we aren't. Clearly someone has never seen the Tribes:Ascend forums post Jackal / Plasma. Lrn2Internet pls. You think this post will make people play nice? Ahah. Edited May 28, 2013 by Supern00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraalOhOtonami Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Shut up. Nawh, in all seriousness, you're right, things can escalate all too quickly in these cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramBlackmon Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 This is not an argument. This is passionate debate. it's the corner stone of democracy. It also shows people are enthusiastic about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supern00b Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 This is not an argument. This is passionate debate. It's the corner stone for trolls to crawl out of the woodwork too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkTanium Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Must be OP's first MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 No we aren't. Clearly someone has never seen the Tribes:Ascend forums post Jackal / Plasma. Lrn2Internet pls. This is what I'm talking about. The first post in these forums is frequently just an attack against the original post. This is not an argument. This is passionate debate. it's the corner stone of democracy. It also shows people are enthusiastic about the game. There is a difference. Once someone starts attacking someone else, then the debate has ended and it is just mudslinging. We are better than the US senate. We still have humanity and should listen to the other side once in a while. I get what you're saying though, and I have no problem with anyone feeling strongly about their opinions. The problem only comes from when they either refuse to see the other side, or demonize anyone that isn't on theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Must be OP's first MMO. Again, thank you for demonstrating my point. Also, no this isn't my first and this isn't an MMO in the strictest sense. Only 4-man squads for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BETAOPTICS Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 A while ago I have actually made a post about the same topic, well close enough anyways. We can do better as a community, I have to evolve, community has to evolve. This topic has a story first but the point is in the bottom.Here is my topic:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/48036-oh-man-just-my-luck-xd/#entry491223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 No we aren't. Clearly someone has never seen the Tribes:Ascend forums post Jackal / Plasma. Lrn2Internet pls. You think this post will make people play nice? Ahah. You are jaded beyond belief. If you don't think people can change, that's your problem, not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyfe3rX Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 No we aren't. Clearly someone has never seen the Tribes:Ascend forums post Jackal / Plasma. Lrn2Internet pls. You think this post will make people play nice? Ahah. eh? This is not an argument. This is passionate debate. it's the corner stone of democracy. It also shows people are enthusiastic about the game. Nope, he already made this a flame war zone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) The problem is that DE hasn't stepped in once to say anything.Just their PRESENCE in a topic would make things calm down.They like to hold their cards to their chest and tell us things through things like the livestreams (which are great and cool dont get me wrong!).But the livestreams don't let people know "we hear you" or "we are working on xyz" except once every 2 weeks. Edited May 28, 2013 by TraumaHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worira Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 YELLING IS FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 You are jaded beyond belief. If you don't think people can change, that's your problem, not ours. While the message of people can change is a noble one, remember that insulting one while telling them that might not deliver that message in a way the listener will appreciate. We are better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Pax Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) I admire your sense of balance, but at the same time you can't really appeal to people. They'll be whoever they want, it's the internet. Got no face, got no name except what you choose. Do what you want, cause...we got a badass over here. Thinking about it though most of the posts that will get paid attention to by the developers are either going to be populated threads of outrage against what they've done, but the ones with weight will be from people who can stay balanced. So all in all, save your breath appealing to people like this and instead pose constructive arguments. It works out better for your time and energy really. It takes a lot of effort to successfully appeal to someone to change their methods and mindset, but it's a lot easier to craft an argument that offers a decent alternative or at least a mid way to theirs. Edited May 28, 2013 by J-Pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 The problem is that DE hasn't stepped in once to say anything. Just their PRESENCE in a topic would make things calm down. They like to hold their cards to their chest and tell us things through things like the livestreams (which are great and cool dont get me wrong!). But the livestreams don't let people know "we hear you" or "we are working on xyz" except once every 2 weeks. And this is something I would love to see. A topic where they can post and show us what they are working on, and what they are listening to. The community hot-topics is a good idea, but a topic that only they can update with a side topic allowing us to respond would help with clutter and keep the original topic from loosing focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 While the message of people can change is a noble one, remember that insulting one while telling them that might not deliver that message in a way the listener will appreciate. We are better than that. I also understand your message to the T. However, being ignorant or jaded is not an insult; it is an observation based on reactions. I am in no way inciting argument. If a person expects a certain degree of hostility or troll-ness just because we are on the internet, they are clearly over saturated and need to be made aware of such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_The_Pariah Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 While our characters in-game are posthuman warriors, I'm afraid the players themselves are not. I, for one am glad that Frost prime is available. I dont care if they went back on their "word", or whatever.Speaking of humanity, do you know what DE's devs are? Because I'm certain the art director is some kind of god...But as for the rest of the devs, They're human. They make mistakes. It was a livestream! This isnt some sort of premeditated announcement by a big company. These are little guys who present themselves before you live, behind no editing or PR employees. They're going to make mistakes. Just like you do. Just like I do. Give them a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 I also understand your message to the T. However, being ignorant or jaded is not an insult; it is an observation based on reactions. I am in no way inciting argument. If a person expects a certain degree of hostility or troll-ness just because we are on the internet, they are clearly over saturated and need to be made aware of such. Correct. Personally, it is my belief to try and be balanced in all things. All that was meant is that it is unwise to use language that might incite hostility when there are so many other choices available. Your message was noble, and that is what was really important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Give them a break. ^^ We aren't dealing with EA or Blizzard after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) And this is something I would love to see. A topic where they can post and show us what they are working on, and what they are listening to. The community hot-topics is a good idea, but a topic that only they can update with a side topic allowing us to respond would help with clutter and keep the original topic from loosing focus. Sounds like you remember this topic I made : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46699-de-i-love-you-i-want-to-hear-from-you-more/ DE responded to it saying this: 1) “How to better release big things” Quick timeline: Friday @ 5 PM, Update 7.11.0 goes out. Reactions pour in for Rhino, then feedback pours in. Time passes and instead of Rhino being targeted, it’s the communication process in general. I agree and think we should come up with something new! Just like we have “Community Hot Topics”, why not have “Development Hot Topics!” Thanks to the threads that nudged, poked, and screamed for more communication. This leads me to my next topic…. 2) Balance and future plans? This is derived from Item # 1 in that when we know we are going to change something (Like Rhino Skin), we should inform, rationalize, and gauge feedback before we implement. This will be an ongoing learning process for us to find the best way to succinctly communicate upcoming changes and goals. They say they are going to be adding such a thing. Really hope to see it soon.. Edited May 28, 2013 by TraumaHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizeol Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Speaking of humanity, do you know what DE's devs are? They're human. They make mistakes. It was a livestream! This isnt some sort of premeditated announcement by a big company. These are little guys who present themselves before you live, behind no editing or PR employees. They're going to make mistakes. Just like you do. Just like I do. Give them a break. There must have been a mis-communication. While there are plenty of topics on the issue of Frost Prime's exclusivity being revoked, that is not the topic in this thread. As for my thoughts on that matter, I am inclined to believe that Frost Prime was never meant to be exclusive, but that they simply mis-spoke. If DE could acknowledge that, and promise to make anything they label exclusive to truly be such in the future, then they will have regained some honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_The_Pariah Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 ^^ We aren't dealing with EA or Blizzard after all... And I'm one of the players that farmed Fusion MOAs. And hey, Fp BP is hard to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_The_Pariah Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 There must have been a mis-communication. While there are plenty of topics on the issue of Frost Prime's exclusivity being revoked, that is not the topic in this thread. As for my thoughts on that matter, I am inclined to believe that Frost Prime was never meant to be exclusive, but that they simply mis-spoke. If DE could acknowledge that, and promise to make anything they label exclusive to truly be such in the future, then they will have regained some honor. That is indeed what I was saying good sir. Glad someone sees in my light on a subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoLikWong Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) The pattern of S#&$ slinging recurs for a reason more natural than civilized discussion have reasons to be conducted. And of course we are no better than the US Senate either, we're just a bunch of strangers without any qualification talking about game design with different agenda each, some just to argue for the sake of arguing, some really want to have their ideas implemented, and some cares more about how people discuss things than the points the discussee(?) made. It's an open forum now and you can't stop the rain from raining everyone in the parade, it's just natural. Edited May 28, 2013 by HoLikWong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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