Suggestions For A More Synergetic Valkyr; Better Tank Role

[NezuHimeSama]

So, valkyr's toggle on invincibility combined with the importance of duration to channeling has really screwed valkyr into an even more restrictive build set. She's super overpowered now and a good fit for any party looking to kill all the things, but she still doesn't bring anything to the party as a support(even less than before), the importance of armour mods is basically moot with the total invincibility, and she still has no way of directing hate besides just walking towards things and hitting them, making her invincibility rather selfish and useless in a team dynamic, still.

So, Valkyr could still use some work. Probably more now than before.

The idea of these suggestions is to turn Valkyr from an invincible supercannon that totally kills all the things very well but doesn't really do anything else to help the team into more of a tank/support role with solid damage output.

The first suggested change: Hysteria invincibility. Remove it.

Instead, Hysteria could reduce damage by 90%(unaffected by power strength, alternatively 10-15-20-30% affected by power strength, but this hurts the effectiveness of hysteria in general builds and I strongly recommend against it) and reflect 10-15-20-30% of dealt damage(or more, or less, as needed for game balance) to the enemy dealing said damage to Valkyr.(alternatively, a smaller amount to an area affected by power range, but this seems to creep into Trinity territory, and could be a bit OP)

This makes it so you can't just toggle on hysteria and all of the things fall over to the invincible supercanon. 90% is a lot, but as we all should know by now, that damage sure adds up fast when you're the center of attention!

Coupled with this, either rework warcry or replace paralysis with something to draw aggro.

For a Warcry rework, it could work something like this: enemies within X meters target valkyr while Warcry is active.(aura-style effect)

Warcry's ally/self buff works the same as before, but instead of providing armour and melee speed, it reduces damage more universally(5-10-15-20% affected by str?) and increases melee damage by 5-10-15-20 + (number of enemies in the area of Warcry, up to +30) % affected by power strength.(so, at 200% str, it would be 40+(up to 60 for 30 enemies)% damage boost to melee)

In the case of Paralysis being replaced, Valkyr could have an aura effect similar to Equinox's 3rd move. Anyone within the aura's area of effect(including objectives?) has a 10-20-30-40% damage reduction, affected by str, capped at 90%, with valkyr taking 25% of the damage dealt to her health, affected by other forms of damage reduction, and affected by armour.

Either of these gives Valkyr an effective means of taking damage for the team, something that other frames lack, which would define her a unique role that synergises well with other frames.

It also opens up builds by making range a more relevant factor to an effective valkyr, reducing the importance of hysteria, and bringing Warcry back into the spotlight as an essential.(which maintains both efficiency and duration as important)

As an example of synergy, loki's radial disarm will bring more enemies to melee range, where valkyr's aggro draw will buff the team's melee damage, and give her something to lifesteal and keep that health up, while providing cover for other tenno. Combine with TE mirage in a shadow, or the health or armour buffs of Chroma, and you could have a pretty impressively deadly melee bloodbath party.

Another example is that if warcry affects melee strength instead of speed, it can be combined with Volt's speed boost without making valkyr's 4 claws just absolutely pointlessly silly fast beyond reasonable clickability.

We're going to have a major nerf to valkyr incoming, likely sooner rather than later. Everyone knows it. Let's make it something positive.

On an unrelated note, the forum seems to randomly eat linebreaks during posting.

Edited October 4, 2015 by NezuHimeSama

[Dillon_J]

no point in removing invincibility since DE is clearly okay with frames being this powerful (trinity, excalibur, loki, ect.)

 

Aggro moves without invincibility are a terrible idea (unless indirect aggro like lokis decoy). Imagine nyx absorb except you arent immune to damage. that is what an aggro is like in warframe, instant death.

 

The only way i could see an aggro work for her is being active only during hysteria(the current one not yours)

 

replacing paralysis with an aoe damage reduction makes no sense for her theme in my eyes.

 

some frames just arent meant to be team players

Edited October 4, 2015 by Dillon_J

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Regarding Valkyr's role as a tank v.s. damage dealer, it seems to me like the best way of going about changing things would be to allow the player to focus on whether they want to be more of a tank or more of a damage dealer, most likely through the use of augments. Specific augments for Hysteria and Warcry could be designed to increase damage output at the expense of survivability, and vice versa. Warcry drawing aggro would be a perfect effect to give to an augment.

 

One thing I will absolutely agree on is that it's completely unreasonable for Hysteria to make you permanently invincible while also being able to deal the kind of damage that Valkyr can put out. Currently, using Hysteria feels like legitimized hacking. I won't be playing Valkyr again (except for testing purposes) until Hysteria's invincibility is tweaked or removed, because removing 100% of enemy threat from any mission without Nullifiers and 99.9% from any mission with them just isn't very fun for me. Can you believe it?

Edited October 4, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[NezuHimeSama]

 

no point in removing invincibility since DE is clearly okay with frames being this powerful (trinity, excalibur, loki, ect.)

 

Aggro moves without invincibility are a terrible idea (unless indirect aggro like lokis decoy). Imagine nyx absorb except you arent immune to damage. that is what an aggro is like in warframe, instant death.

 

The only way i could see an aggro work for her is being active only during hysteria(the current one not yours)

 

replacing paralysis with an aoe damage reduction makes no sense for her theme in my eyes.

 

some frames just arent meant to be team players

 

90% damage reduction + 1200~*buff armour? + blessing.

 

Regarding Valkyr's role as a tank v.s. damage dealer, it seems to me like the best way of going about changing things would be to allow the player to focus on whether they want to be more of a tank or more of a damage dealer, most likely through the use of augments. Specific augments for Hysteria and Warcry could be designed to increase damage output at the expense of survivability, and vice versa. Warcry drawing aggro would be a perfect effect to give to an augment.

 

One thing I will absolutely agree on is that it's completely unreasonable for Hysteria to make you permanently invincible while also being able to deal the kind of damage that Valkyr can put out. Currently, using Hysteria feels like legitimized hacking. I won't be playing Valkyr again (except for testing purposes) until Hysteria's invincibility is tweaked or removed, because removing 100% of enemy threat from any mission without Nullifiers and 99.9% from any mission with them just isn't very fun for me. Can you believe it?

 

The problem with augments is that builds get so cramped already. There's just not enough room for it.

If we had an augment slot, it could certainly make things more interesting though.

Edited October 4, 2015 by NezuHimeSama

[(PSN)TrueAlastar]

 

Some frames just aren't meant to be team players

This kind of sums it up, I don't want my Valkyr changing to suit the needs of some people that think all frames should help all other frames for some reason. I get on Valkyr because I like to kill things, now I can kill things for longer, in more situations. To me that's perfect. Get away from my Valkyr with your "We're all in this together" love-song world.

[(PSN)TrueAlastar]

Regarding Valkyr's role as a tank v.s. damage dealer, it seems to me like the best way of going about changing things would be to allow the player to focus on whether they want to be more of a tank or more of a damage dealer, most likely through the use of augments. Specific augments for Hysteria and Warcry could be designed to increase damage output at the expense of survivability, and vice versa. Warcry drawing aggro would be a perfect effect to give to an augment.

 

One thing I will absolutely agree on is that it's completely unreasonable for Hysteria to make you permanently invincible while also being able to deal the kind of damage that Valkyr can put out. Currently, using Hysteria feels like legitimized hacking. I won't be playing Valkyr again (except for testing purposes) until Hysteria's invincibility is tweaked or removed, because removing 100% of enemy threat from any mission without Nullifiers and 99.9% from any mission with them just isn't very fun for me. Can you believe it?

Aye, I'd much prefer like a 40% damage reduction (At base) and keep the life steal. To me that would be plenty to keep her alive, no need to be invincible.

[Dillon_J]

 

 

One thing I will absolutely agree on is that it's completely unreasonable for Hysteria to make you permanently invincible while also being able to deal the kind of damage that Valkyr can put out. Currently, using Hysteria feels like legitimized hacking. I won't be playing Valkyr again (except for testing purposes) until Hysteria's invincibility is tweaked or removed, because removing 100% of enemy threat from any mission without Nullifiers and 99.9% from any mission with them just isn't very fun for me. Can you believe it?

You must hate playing with blessing trinitys

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

You must hate playing with blessing trinitys

 

I don't mind Trinity as much, because Trinity's invulnerability requires some skill to pull off with maximum effectiveness, and it doesn't let you deal 70k damage melee hits several times per second. Trinity is still a problem, though. As I've already indicated, permanent invincibility with no downsides would be called hacking in any other game, and it's just as unreasonable in this one.

 

I've seen reports of hackers in Warframe, and they aren't empowering themselves to anywhere near the level the level that they can reach legitimately.

Edited October 4, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3