Pay 2 Win Much?

[DrummerSoul13]

I dont agree for the most part as most things can be farmed. but I do agree that thing that can be bought with platinum is waaaaaaay too outrageous...150 plat for a skana? i have to pay 10$ for skana and leftovers for 1 potato/forma/slots?! thats really ridiculous...obviously i will not buy a skana with plat. im just pointing out that. eventhough this game is not really considered a pay2win game. its more of a pay4convenience game...but paying 10 bucks or more for ONE weapon just because you are lazy to farm for it. ITS REALLY RIDICULOUS...i understand if it was for like the glaive and vauban because the alert missions are annoying to wait for. but seriously..the prices in the game has to drop. I played games where i can buy more than 1 weapon with just 10$. besides this im pretty happy with the game.

[Guest]

This is just pay2notFarm.

 

[Szak]

i guess it encourages players to actually farm for the weapon rather than buying everything up and ending up having everything in a week.

[Demonocolips]

rng in payed for items should not exist

i hated it in star trek online 

it sucks here just fix it so we can get what we pay for.

[Zurakci]

This... IS STILL.. not PAY 2 WIN... It is a thing called Farm for fun, Pay 2 fun and so on. Two different thingy ma-jiggy...-

[Relkin]

TheErebus, on 29 May 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

50$ and you get it?

With what? The mod packs?

Buddy listen here, I wasted god knows how many plat on the mod packs for a Killing Blow mod.

Nothing.

No, they give you special mods if you buy certain amounts of plat now. I'm not sure if those mods are even on the drop tables as of now.

[Opacuslupus]

RNG should really be RNGHBIM=Really Not Gonna Happen But It Might; Or just RNGH which is why we always keep farming away lol. Whether its f2p or pay per month, RNG is always there...I played WoW for 6 years and I did runs for the Baron mount which had a 1 in 100 drop rate, I ran that place over 700 -800 times and never had the mount drop, I however did get a epic sword that had an even lower drop rate twice....I couldn't use it cause I was a druid. The point is it doesn't matter if you pay or not luck is luck. A friend of mine went in to the place and his first time got the mount...I was pissed but I got over it and kept trying, because I got the Raven mount and he never did. I had a lot of mounts but the Baron was my White Whale... It got frustrating but I tried and never got it. Oh well, time goes on many other people got the Baron mount I just wasn't one of the lucky ones. Same goes with actual gear, a lot of gear I wanted didn't drop so I supplemented with other gear and did just as well. RNGH is what it is

[GottFaust]

No, they give you special mods if you buy certain amounts of plat now. I'm not sure if those mods are even on the drop tables as of now.

They are. My squad has had at least one instance of each drop for us. They are very rare, but they exist.

[thedrag0n22]

really, pay2win? then how did I get my charged excalibur and charged rhino and charged hek, charged kunai, and on top of that all my non charged weapons like my strun, paris, boltor, gram, dark dagger, dark sword, heat dagger, duel ether,twin vipers, lex, and furis without paying a dime?

Edited May 29, 2013 by thedrag0n22

[GottFaust]

really, pay2win? then how did I get my charged excalibur and charged rhino and charged hek, charged kunai, and on top of that all my non charged weapons like my strun, paris, boltor, gram, dark dagger, dark sword, heat dagger, duel ether,twin vipers, lex, and furis without paying a dime?

Quite obviously you know something that the OP doesn't.

[Jack.Bauer]

dude listen,

if your problem is about the lack of slots, a lot of people complain you can either wait for them to find a solution for this thing or simply pay $10 to get extra slots for both weapons and warframes.

 

but you're complaining about how you're not getting any good/rare mods or voids key, don't just do the same thing over and over and over and farm to get the key.

 

just play the game enjoy it and eventually a key will show up,

I already got 3 keys ALL of them from defense missions and ALL of them I got after finishing wave 5, yes it is about luck

[Deadly-Bagel]

Several points here, first and most importantly i dismissed his crying because he was wrong and abusing terms that are already badly misunderstood and that serves no one.  i never referenced any implication that he is new that is your projection on my words, but if you want we can discuss "straw man attack" later.

I minced my understanding of a few posts so I apologise for including you in that statement, but the statement itself stands. Many people are saying "you're new therefore you're wrong" which is a stupid mode of thought.

 

"Because he's wrong." Agent_of_Change has spoken, people! We must blindly follow his beliefs or we will never attain enlightenment! I dislike when people say "You're wrong". It's presumptive and pompous, whether he's wrong or not is your opinion that we most certainly do not have to abide by.

 

1. Reasonable grind and RNG are hand in hand.  sometimes you are (un)lucky but your sample set is insignificant to the larger data set that actually matters.  sorry the game doesn't revolve around you, however you will notice that DE, when something is clearly out of whack, adjusts their numbers rapidly.  Because Beta is Beta... hmm you might be in need of a post about what Beta is i'm getting the feeling your not sure what it actually means... but i digress

Sometimes you are unlucky. Apparently I'm just permanently unlucky. I've played every day since U8 and haven't skimped on defence. Like I said, one key. I assume RNG stands for "Rigged Number Generator"? btw I realise people do regularly get keys, some of my guildies among them, I'm just saying that many of us are also not getting keys, to an extent it goes beyond random. Yeah you can toss a standard coin a hundred times but I bet you anything they won't all be heads.

 

And FYI I'm an aspiring software developer, currently working in software support. I know what beta is, but fail to see how it is relevant. I think something is out of whack so as a beta tester I am telling them I think so. Maybe you need that post if you're saying I shouldn't be providing this feedback. They can decide if it's the probabilities they need to look at or the RNG itself.

 

2.  Yes the founders attack i could see how you might think that was relevant but while i could tell you that i have 198 hours logged in mission 10 warframes and 24 weapons every single one (except the excal prime) gained through grind and materials (including the vauban [still cooking] and frost prime) and I have only paid for credit/affinity boosts, some mod p[acks early on and some void keys cause hey i had platinum to spend, you wouldn't believe me and I'm to lazy to post pictures.  Point is the founders attack is just the refuge of an argument without substance, I have hoever personally picked up 6 void keys since friday through grind but then it might just be my week.

I asked why the people always going off that plat prices are fine are hunters and grandmasters. Many founders are not like this, but I don't see many people who are not founders saying plat prices are fine. And I believe you, I did a similar thing, but again fail to see how it is relevant. Additionally, I pointed out that founders packs are a cheaper way of getting platinum (which isn't even remotely an attack) and as such a perception of value is skewed compared to someone in maybe a year's time (if the Founders program ever ends).

 

3. Again I didn't say no one was complaining or  you couldn't complain about Plat costs but you shouldn't cry about it.  Whining publicly just looks bad and is pretty pathetic, the truth is that the forum community is a tiny fraction of the games player base.  The point is the fact that prices haven't changed yet is indicative of two things either DE is happy with the revenue stream and all the complainers or in the minority or a change is in consideration but no decision has been made yet. What i can tell you decisively is the the disastisfied are NOT in tthe majority, and i can tell you that through the simple use of deductive logic:  If the majority were dissatisfied then the majority wouldn't be buying plat (and if they were they are dumb), if the majority isn't buying plat then DE isn't making money, If DE isn't making money they will change things so they are in a hurry, if DE is changing things we would see it.  No rapid change mean people are buying platy which means perceived value is acceptable by the majority at this time.  again the game doesn't revolve around you.

Do I look like I'm crying? Did I use even more than two lines on that topic, doing anything more than pointing you to another topic? Please stop insinuating people are just blubbering that they can't afford anything whenever they so much as mention platinum, it's insulting and disrespectful. And if DE are happy then fine, they can ignore us or tell us they're not interested. Don't presume to know what they do and don't want to hear, you're not even a moderator let alone DE staff.

 

Lastly, yes the forums are only a sample of the actual playing base but when product testing you don't go give it to everyone on the planet. The ratio of opinions here likely relate quite closely with the ratio of opinions of non-forumers. If you want to think that everyone not on the forum is happy with platinum prices then fine, but I'm not interested in your assumptions.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Deadly-Bagel

[Deadly-Bagel]

RNG should really be RNGHBIM=Really Not Gonna Happen But It Might; Or just RNGH which is why we always keep farming away lol. Whether its f2p or pay per month, RNG is always there...I played WoW for 6 years and I did runs for the Baron mount which had a 1 in 100 drop rate, I ran that place over 700 -800 times and never had the mount drop, I however did get a epic sword that had an even lower drop rate twice....I couldn't use it cause I was a druid. The point is it doesn't matter if you pay or not luck is luck. A friend of mine went in to the place and his first time got the mount...I was &!$$ed but I got over it and kept trying, because I got the Raven mount and he never did. I had a lot of mounts but the Baron was my White Whale... It got frustrating but I tried and never got it. Oh well, time goes on many other people got the Baron mount I just wasn't one of the lucky ones. Same goes with actual gear, a lot of gear I wanted didn't drop so I supplemented with other gear and did just as well. RNGH is what it is

Fully agree with you.

 

However I don't agree the endgame should be RNG. We might let you go on that more awesome mission that is actually appropriate for your gear, but then again the day ends in "y" so it doesn't feel like it. Feel free to pay though. This is not how to play a game =/

 

It's not even paying to make things easier, it's paying to make things harder so we've actually got something to use our weapons against!

[Aizeol]

If this were PvP, sure Pay2Win would be valid. However, all other players are on your side and if you spend money to get a gun (which just means you get it without farming, not sooner than you're "supposed to") it only helps you and your team. This doesn't make the person playing a better player, nor does it adversely affect everyone else they play with.

How is it Pay2Win when there isn't actually anything to "win"?

[CrunkTanium]

I've been trying to figure it out for a couple hundred hours now, but how do you "win" Warframe?

 

He who has the biggest Ego wins or something like that.

[Katakuna]

He who has the biggest Ego wins or something like that.

 

"Stop killing our enemies faster than me!"

[IspanoLFW1]

If this were PvP, sure Pay2Win would be valid. However, all other players are on your side and if you spend money to get a gun (which just means you get it without farming, not sooner than you're "supposed to") it only helps you and your team. This doesn't make the person playing a better player, nor does it adversely affect everyone else they play with.

How is it Pay2Win when there isn't actually anything to "win"?

 

Because it doesn't have to be PvP to be valid. Even in Co-op games there is competition, especially with a sort of leaderboard in place. Player A with the better gun, or getting the gun earlier, or even a potentially exclusive item that's better than its in game counterpart. It can still be considered pay2win. Not saying it is, but being co-op most certainly does not exclude it from being so.

[Ketec]

what i see on AVERAGE  you can get 1 key/day (more if lucky, less if not) -  people have run (plat users?) 50+ times t3 voids and such and yet still havent got the  stuff out of it they need - now thats  ~2 months for a f2p just to get enough playthroughs  thats comparable to 1-3 days for plat users.

This is not balanced.

[Aizeol]

Because it doesn't have to be PvP to be valid. Even in Co-op games there is competition, especially with a sort of leaderboard in place. Player A with the better gun, or getting the gun earlier, or even a potentially exclusive item that's better than its in game counterpart. It can still be considered pay2win. Not saying it is, but being co-op most certainly does not exclude it from being so.

In a Co-Op game Pay2Win is false. Now that isn't saying that someone who pays doesn't have an advantage over someone playing for free. That is true, and I won't deny it. But when E-penis contests are the only thing at stake, it doesn't matter. There is nothing to "win" in the game besides bragging rights.

The term being used on Co-Op games is what I have a personal problem with. It is a misnomer because there isn't anything to "win". When a PvP game lets players buy power there is a problem and that is Pay2Win, but most of Warframe is close enough to balanced (not entirely) that with some skill it doesn't matter when gun/frame you're using.

[Opacuslupus]

Fully agree with you.

 

However I don't agree the endgame should be RNG. We might let you go on that more awesome mission that is actually appropriate for your gear, but then again the day ends in "y" so it doesn't feel like it. Feel free to pay though. This is not how to play a game =/

 

It's not even paying to make things easier, it's paying to make things harder so we've actually got something to use our weapons against!

Ya, I can understand where your coming from and agree to an extent. I think the idea of the drops are good per se but maybe increase the drop rate a bit? Because if they made it just another mission base area then farming these cool and awesome bps and mods would be just another place you constantly farm, instead of working for it, as well as, there would be no uniqueness to the gear.

 

Even though anyone who did not participate in the weekend event were supposed to have access to getting the new prime gear anyway, I myself had just started that weekend so I knew nothing about what was going on, but I was fine with that. I figured next event that comes up I'd be there for sure to get those prime gear.

 

Anywho if the drop rate was raised up on the keys then I think there would be a lot less complaints.

[IspanoLFW1]

In a Co-Op game Pay2Win is false. Now that isn't saying that someone who pays doesn't have an advantage over someone playing for free. That is true, and I won't deny it. But when E-penis contests are the only thing at stake, it doesn't matter. There is nothing to "win" in the game besides bragging rights.

The term being used on Co-Op games is what I have a personal problem with. It is a misnomer because there isn't anything to "win". When a PvP game lets players buy power there is a problem and that is Pay2Win, but most of Warframe is close enough to balanced (not entirely) that with some skill it doesn't matter when gun/frame you're using.

 

That's why what you're saying is called an opinion, and not false, nor is it fact. It's a valid stance, regardless of whether you agree with it or not. Winning can be as simple as having the most kills.

[Venarge]

ok so the only problem here is the droprate at higher levels all the other things are nonsense.

This game isnt charity. You dont want to pay, thats ok. But its a little bit ridiculous to ask for faster ways when it comes to plat items. Slots will be most likely obtainable for progression/mastery. Everything else can be found ingame. What I wanted to suggest was patience, but its one of the rarest things around here....

[Aizeol]

That's why what you're saying is called an opinion, and not false, nor is it fact. It's a valid stance, regardless of whether you agree with it or not. Winning can be as simple as having the most kills.

Fair enough.

[IspanoLFW1]

ok so the only problem here is the droprate at higher levels all the other things are nonsense.

This game isnt charity. You dont want to pay, thats ok. But its a little bit ridiculous to ask for faster ways when it comes to plat items. Slots will be most likely obtainable for progression/mastery. Everything else can be found ingame. What I wanted to suggest was patience, but its one of the rarest things around here....

 

I doubt people think it's charity either. I see it like this, with a F2P game, you release some new content. All players get to experience it in most, however here, the Free players have to wait, and hope they can get lucky to experience it. And even if they do find some keys or wiggle into someone elses run, they may only see it once or twice. Now this isn't always the case, but just that fact can push people away. Me and some friends found 2 Tier 1 Keys on the first day, nothing since. So small handful of times we go, and that's... it. At least for now unless RNG decides we can try again, to experience this new content that i'm SURE DE wants people to go play. Now I said that not to complain, more to point out how some might get annoyed or bothered by how things work. I may be, I may not, only my close friends will ever know.

 

Having weapons and items and such take time and whatnot to obtain is another side of the coin, but in my experience, most people are more content in waiting for things like that, vs actual content, ie things to DO(Example, Void Levels). There will always be people that dislike this as well though.

[Venarge]

I doubt people think it's charity either. I see it like this, with a F2P game, you release some new content. All players get to experience it in most, however here, the Free players have to wait, and hope they can get lucky to experience it. And even if they do find some keys or wiggle into someone elses run, they may only see it once or twice. Now this isn't always the case, but just that fact can push people away. Me and some friends found 2 Tier 1 Keys on the first day, nothing since. So small handful of times we go, and that's... it. At least for now unless RNG decides we can try again, to experience this new content that i'm SURE DE wants people to go play. Now I said that not to complain, more to point out how some might get annoyed or bothered by how things work. I may be, I may not, only my close friends will ever know.

 

Having weapons and items and such take time and whatnot to obtain is another side of the coin, but in my experience, most people are more content in waiting for things like that, vs actual content, ie things to DO(Example, Void Levels). There will always be people that dislike this as well though.

Thats why I said the only thing that needs to be changed are the drop rates for higher levels. Making them more often in hard levels would easily solve the problem.