Dojo Costs Scaling Suggestion

[truthless]

Most suggestions I've seen are exploitable in the sense that you can have people leave the clan, build what you want for less resources, then have them rejoin (perhaps have them join one at a time to spend their resources). Here's my suggestion.

 

Tier according to max members, not current members. Allow the clan leader to specify max number of members in the clan. Suggested tiers:

 

Tier 1: max 10 members, one tenth of the current costs

Tier 2: max 25 members, one fourth of the current costs

Tier 3: max 50 members, half of the current costs

Tier 4: Unlimited members, current costs

 

Now here's the tricky part. Upgrading the tier of a clan triggers a freeze on EVERYTHING. Your rooms are still there (the blueprint for them anyway), but in order for you to access and use them you must feed the appropriate resources into them to reach the next tier (for example if going from tier 1 to tier 2 you must feed enough resources to go from 1/10th, to 1/4th of the current costs).

 

You can only downgrade the tier of a clan when the clan fills the requirements (can only downgrade to tier 2 from tier 3 when you have 25 or fewer members). Downgrading does not freeze anything, but you don't get any resources back either. The only reason to downgrade would be if your clan shrunk and you want to add new content. New content will obviously cost accordingly to the current tier of the clan.

 

In terms of research, a tier 1 clan researching a certain resource (like, say, a weapon) will only unlock 10 instances of that resource. If 10 people use the resource, it's used up, and in order for more people to get that resource you must feed more resources into it (tier 2 research).

Edited May 30, 2013 by truthless

[WindHorse]

Tenno,

Allow me to caveat from your scale that I can only speak to the size of my current clan (50-60 members).

 

I do agree that there may need some scaling with multiple tiers of structures.  It may be an idea to offer smaller versions of a lab where perhaps you do not get as many research options until you upgrade it.  This could be described as a phased approach of sorts. 

 

Our clan only slows down when we need Forma, but we have steady donators either through platinum purchases or farming the Void to get the one-time Forma blueprint.

 

When we start research, we fill up what is needed very quickly as we believe in unlocking the full potential of our dojo.  I am not saying people in other clans are not generous when building out their Dojos, but it seems like mobilizing your clan towards a common goal can achieve even current costs. 

 

I am not sure that well motivated players justify the costs, but well motivated players can achieve a great deal when they work together.

 

 

WindHorse

Quantum Entanglement

[truthless]

Well, my clan is currently 5 members, 2 of us are pretty active with a 3rd part-time active and the other two not playing more than once a week. We cannot even begin to approach the costs needed to build anything, and we have no interest in joining a larger clan. Some sort of scaling needs to happen or this feature is essentially dead for us.

Edited May 30, 2013 by truthless

[Socinus]

Most suggestions I've seen are exploitable in the sense that you can have people leave the clan, build what you want for less resources, then have them rejoin (perhaps have them join one at a time to spend their resources).

This is easily fixable by implementing a cost to unlock rooms for new members of the clan to use.

 

A certain fee (in resources) would have to be paid to unlock a room for use by a new member. Thus is such exploiting prevented.

[Darkvirusvx]

This is easily fixable by implementing a cost to unlock rooms for new members of the clan to use.

 

A certain fee (in resources) would have to be paid to unlock a room for use by a new member. Thus is such exploiting prevented.

 

Thats assuming they want to grow there clan. My clan is in the same boat we are a group of friends that play many diffrent games together. I alone could get a hallway up to 30%... Thats it. Why are all hallways the same price? A tiny hallway the same as a cross.

 

So now we are thinking of recruiting which takes up game playing time and then more time to manage the clan. Im kind of shocked a recource multipler wasnt added to the store or a credit to recource exchange.

[Socinus]

Thats assuming they want to grow there clan. My clan is in the same boat we are a group of friends that play many diffrent games together. I alone could get a hallway up to 30%... Thats it. Why are all hallways the same price? A tiny hallway the same as a cross.

If you dont want to grow the clan, you dont have to. The new person tax only applies when someone new comes in, people already in the clan can contribute to that tax but otherwise they dont have to deal with it.

[truthless]

This is easily fixable by implementing a cost to unlock rooms for new members of the clan to use.

 

A certain fee (in resources) would have to be paid to unlock a room for use by a new member. Thus is such exploiting prevented.

 

Transferring the cost of building rooms and research from the group to the individual kind of removes from the sense of accomplishment of working on something together, though. I don't think that's a good thing, nor do I think devs consider that a solution.

[Moonhymen]

I agree with the OP entirely. My clan is just 2 friends, we wont grow any larger and once I found out that there is 'exclusive' clan content, I definately wanted to work towards building it myself. Seeing the astronomical costs of the dojo at the moment there is no way a 2 person clan could build it.

Where as if we could build a dojo that a maximum of 10 members could use it would be highly desirable, I don't mind grinding for a month, maybe two, but the current price would be like a years worth.

[Sweetpink]

Since myclan consists of two players (me and my mate), it is indeed a high wall to climb if we want to build something, esp the forma. But I like this suggestion, I had a very simular of not identical suggestion.

We like to play with eachother and sadly as how the Dojo is at the moment we can't really enjoy anything in the dojo more than resource trading.

[WindHorse]

This topic perplexes me a little now that I have stewed on it a little more.  I understand that players want to spend time with their friends. 

 

One solution that players are trying is the creation of small clans for just them and their friends.  I see nothing wrong with this and I am glad you guys are enjoying Warframe together! =)

 

The opposite part is the Dojo aspect of a clan.  The Dojo (as it stands right now) is structured that if you want to complete a building project quickly, you will need a certain amount of active players contributing to the resources of each build project.

 

Without recruiting more players, the length of time to build a small section of the Dojo will take a good amount of time.  I am not sure this is short sighted by DE.  If you want more immediate results, you need to build your clan.  If you do not want to build your clan, how different is than just playing with people on your contact list?  Granted, you get an extra channel to talk in, but if you have a voice chat software then that may be a litte moot or at least Clan chat would be used less.  Right now and other than events like the Moa event, your clan name is only going to be seen on a recruitment forum post or your clan website.

 

If you want more immediate results and DE does not restructure build requirments, why not look for a little bit larger clan that is already pre-established? 

 

I am one of the officers of my current clan and I spend time out of each gaming night to review Dojo progress, answer recruitment questions, help farm Void keys, run Void missions for people wanting their prime bluprints, and then I spend time on my own to level a Warframe that is not going to slow down clan farming.  I find the game relaxing and I do not see any obstacles on our Dojo needs because we have generous members and we recruit people who fit in with the idea being helpful, contributing members and not just for resources, but more importantly time with us.

 

I hope all clans have success in building their respective Dojos and DE evaluates a way to perhaps offer different avenues that could boost smaller clans.

 

 

WindHorse

Quantum Entanglement

Edited May 30, 2013 by WindHorse

[Socinus]

Transferring the cost of building rooms and research from the group to the individual kind of removes from the sense of accomplishment of working on something together, though. I don't think that's a good thing, nor do I think devs consider that a solution.

Anyone can contribute to the admission of a new player. The resources necessary to unlock that room for the use of the newest player can be donated by any clan member, including the new member. The sense of accomplishment is still there.

[WindHorse]

A per player dues seems like it would discourage the growth of a clan. It would almost be a concrete expectation that if you want to gain access to the Dojo and you cannot meet the dues of the Dojo, then either the clan communally assists that player or the player has a forced trial period while he/she farms the dues requirements. This would also introduce a social impact as clans will not accept new players unless they meet the dues requirements before entering the clan. If someone is more casual, it could create a bit of an obstacle trying to enjoy something as central as a Dojo.

WindHorse

Quantum Entanglement

[truthless]

This topic perplexes me a little now that I have stewed on it a little more.  I understand that players want to spend time with their friends. 

 

One solution that players are trying is the creation of small clans for just them and their friends.  I see nothing wrong with this and I am glad you guys are enjoying Warframe together! =)

 

The opposite part is the Dojo aspect of a clan.  The Dojo (as it stands right now) is structured that if you want to complete a building project quickly, you will need a certain amount of active players contributing to the resources of each build project.

 

Without recruiting more players, the length of time to build a small section of the Dojo will take a good amount of time.  I am not sure this is short sighted by DE.  If you want more immediate results, you need to build your clan.  If you do not want to build your clan, how different is than just playing with people on your contact list?  Granted, you get an extra channel to talk in, but if you have a voice chat software then that may be a litte moot or at least Clan chat would be used less.  Right now and other than events like the Moa event, your clan name is only going to be seen on a recruitment forum post or your clan website.

 

If you want more immediate results and DE does not restructure build requirments, why not look for a little bit larger clan that is already pre-established? 

 

I am one of the officers of my current clan and I spend time out of each gaming night to review Dojo progress, answer recruitment questions, help farm Void keys, run Void missions for people wanting their prime bluprints, and then I spend time on my own to level a Warframe that is not going to slow down clan farming.  I find the game relaxing and I do not see any obstacles on our Dojo needs because we have generous members and we recruit people who fit in with the idea being helpful, contributing members and not just for resources, but more importantly time with us.

 

I hope all clans have success in building their respective Dojos and DE evaluates a way to perhaps offer different avenues that could boost smaller clans.

 

 

WindHorse

Quantum Entanglement

 

You're missing the point I think. Even if there were no rewards, I would like to build and maintain the Dojo with my friends. A sort of "base of our own". An accomplishment that we could strive for together. You lose that when you join a big clan in the sense you're proposing, and basically you're just collecting the rewards without any sense of accomplishment. Does that make sense?

 

Not trying to say big clans are bad. They're probably great if you have a big community of friends playing the game. But I wouldn't want to be in a big clan with a bunch of people I never play with, just to collect the rewards of their Dojo. I want to build my own Dojo with my friends.

Edited May 31, 2013 by truthless

[WindHorse]

You're missing the point I think. Even if there were no rewards, I would like to build and maintain the Dojo with my friends. A sort of "base of our own". An accomplishment that we could strive for together. You lose that when you join a big clan in the sense you're proposing, and basically you're just collecting the rewards without any sense of accomplishment. Does that make sense?

 

Not trying to say big clans are bad. They're probably great if you have a big community of friends playing the game. But I wouldn't want to be in a big clan with a bunch of people I never play with, just to collect the rewards of their Dojo. I want to build my own Dojo with my friends.

 

Your point was not missed.  I wish you luck with your clan and as I said above:

 

I hope all clans have success in building their respective Dojos and DE evaluates a way to perhaps offer different avenues that could boost smaller clans.

 

The perception of size of a clan on what is large is kind of subjective.  I find my current clan of around 60 players still small in comparison to some of the larger clan sizes that are currently out there.  The desire or motivation to make new friends in a group of strangers is an individual journey in which we all have different path.

 

I hope you find a path that gets you your sense of accomplishment and keeps you motivated on continuing to play Warframe.

 

 

WindHorse

Quantum Entanglement

[mL_2010]

It's a very good idea^^ My clan has BIG problems with building all these things. finally, after 4 weeks or so, we made a cross shaped hallway... I have to say that we are like 6 people or so but with this idea, it would be much more enjoyable to build these things and not farm one map for hours to get f****** insane amounts of salvage...

[vekien]

I think the current costs are fine, you should not have stuff handed you because you want to stay in your tight little group of friends. Dojo's are about expansion, both through players and capacity. You would not see the Serenity team in the Star Ship Enterprise...

If you are small and choose to be that way, it will take you time, that is how it is, it is like that everywhere, no different than a company expanding for more resources and man power!

Many of you could stop being anti-social who are complaining about this and make 1 big group. The "Anti-Insane Resource Cost Clan" and it would solve all your issues :D

Edited May 31, 2013 by vekien

[Thor]

If you haven't seen https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/'>Steve's recent thread, he details what they're considering for clans right now. Seems to be quite similar to your suggestion, which I think is a good one for avoiding a lot of the concerns for cost scaling.

[Lakitel]

 Well you know, when it comes to game design, the concept you want to implement sometimes isn't as important as how you implement it. Maybe what would be a great fix in this kind of situation where the size of the clan is an issue, is to have some better in-game recruitment stuff.

 

 I don't generally like referencing different games on another game's forum, but if any of you have ever played EvE online, they have this great recruitment method where somebody can open the recruitment window and then set the parameters they want (Such as what time zones the clan is playing in, what the clan focuses on, a clan message/description, and who is the recruiter for the clan), then a search returns them clans within those parameters that are set, they can read the description or requirements and then they can contact the recruiter if they are interested.

 

 As stated many times, the issue here is mostly the fact that people prefer being with friends and what not. Even so, the fact of MMOs is that "Massive" is in the title, so you will have to expand at some point. I think it would be nice if we had a specific place in-game that was properly set-up specifically for clan recruitment.

 

 I mean its all great and good to say that scaling will go on, but at the end of the day, its most likely that the smaller clans will be left out, and they shouldn't be punished because they find it hard to recruit. Many small clans probably don't have the know-how or the time to manage and recruit a clan, so maybe some work should be done on that as well as any actual scaling that happens.

[PeaceOfMind]

Tenno,

Allow me to caveat from your scale that I can only speak to the size of my current clan (50-60 members).

 

I do agree that there may need some scaling with multiple tiers of structures.  It may be an idea to offer smaller versions of a lab where perhaps you do not get as many research options until you upgrade it.  This could be described as a phased approach of sorts. 

 

Our clan only slows down when we need Forma, but we have steady donators either through platinum purchases or farming the Void to get the one-time Forma blueprint.

 

When we start research, we fill up what is needed very quickly as we believe in unlocking the full potential of our dojo.  I am not saying people in other clans are not generous when building out their Dojos, but it seems like mobilizing your clan towards a common goal can achieve even current costs. 

 

I am not sure that well motivated players justify the costs, but well motivated players can achieve a great deal when they work together.

 

 

WindHorse

Quantum Entanglement

I completely agree with the points you have made. The only issue for me is that not everyone wants a large clan or to be in one; also not everyone is an avid hardcore gamer who is ultra dedicated to collecting the required resources. That is the reason I would like to see resource cost tiered. Give the smaller groups [and individuals] and casual gamers a chance to participate.

[dukelego]

I think the only frozen rooms should be research rooms etc not hallways and elevators