[WC] Ushtar: The Marine Tactician | 6/14/2017 - Added fulcrvm's last sketch

[IANOBW]

Doesn't look like a Warframe, feels more like a Presona, Warframes have a more natural look to them even Limbo and Mesa have look found on all Warframes, flesh-meets-metal is constant theme found on all warframes so far.

 

That being said, I like the look, not too crazy about the power set, sounds pretty unbalanced but I like the general theme of the frame.

 

If anything, Limbo and Mesa look less like Warframes in comparison.

[Rhekemi]

Doesn't look like a Warframe, feels more like a Presona, Warframes have a more natural look to them even Limbo and Mesa have look found on all Warframes, flesh-meets-metal is constant theme found on all warframes so far.

 

That being said, I like the look, not too crazy about the power set, sounds pretty unbalanced but I like the general theme of the frame.

 

Hi, thanks for taking a look.

 

Can you explain what you mean by Ushtar looking more like a Presona (or Persona)? And what do you mean when you say "more natural look"? Most of the warframe's look unnatural, so I'm confused, honestly.

 

I do get the point about flesh-meets-metal. Ushtar's design is Warframe meets military dress uniform, and it is the realization of a concept. Other artists, and of course DE, are free to alter it to their tastes. Personally, yes, I can see room for alterations to satisfy some concerns that he looks too human, but I love what fulcrvm designed. It marries the textual concept to the visual design.

 

I think his color-scheme may be throwing people a bit, as well, but it was my requested color-scheme. 

 

As for unbalanced, if you could point out what throws his kit off for you, let me know and I'll take a look. (I left off polarities and what mods affect what powers specifically to keep it balanced, as I do with my other concepts. Not really into getting into what mods do what with what powers.)

Edited November 8, 2015 by Rhekemi

[Q-Nel-974]

Réfléchis s'il te plait ;)

[Rhekemi]

Small update a few days ago: Void Marine changed to Marine Tactician. All references to the Void removed.

 

I liked the moniker of Void Marine (as a Tenno, Warframe version of a Space Marine), but it seemed to cause confusion (that Usthar used Void energy as Limbo does).

 

Since his name already means “soldier” it seemed redundant to call him “Ushtar: The Soldier Warframe”, so I opted for Marine Tactician for now. Those two words best fit his role, theme, and concept.

 

 

Réfléchis s'il te plait ;)

 

Google’s less reliable on this one, but thanks…as I think it was a compliment.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Rhekemi

[(PSN)x-xWiCKeDx-x]

Some friends and I were thinking about a Soldier theme frame acouple weeks ago and the main thing that came to our mind was give him some kinda Turrets to deploy like the soldier from Borderlands and some how either include with the turrets or a care package type drop power where it regens your squads ammo because there is currently nothing in the game like that. I do like the cloak idea for 1 my idea was as simple as throw a grenade. I also thought for some kind of 4 move either the turret or he calls in a sattilite laser blast from space. Idk this was all thought up in the span of 10min lol

[Rhekemi]

Some friends and I were thinking about a Soldier theme frame acouple weeks ago and the main thing that came to our mind was give him some kinda Turrets to deploy like the soldier from Borderlands and some how either include with the turrets or a care package type drop power where it regens your squads ammo because there is currently nothing in the game like that. I do like the cloak idea for 1 my idea was as simple as throw a grenade. I also thought for some kind of 4 move either the turret or he calls in a sattilite laser blast from space. Idk this was all thought up in the span of 10min lol

 

Hey, thanks for the interest.

 

You could definitely go other directions with your soldier theme than I did. I've seen turrets in defense and engineer 'frame concepts the most, so far, but no reason why you couldn't use it in a soldier 'frame.

 

As for care packages and ammo drops, that would make a good support power.

 

The only drawback to too much external gear (and one of the main areas of resistance I encountered, which helped me refine this concept) is it feels like the 'frame starts to have too many bells and whistles that are staples of other shooters. Calling in a laser from outerspace would probably be too over the top and too similar to calling in an airstrike/nuke for a lot of players. (Someone actually used that as a reason why Ushtar wasn't a good idea: helicopters and nukes, which were not part of the concept!)

 

All in all, the resistance helped refine the concept as much as the positive feedback did.

 

If you want to spend more time coming up with your concept, I say go for it.

[Rhekemi]

A large part of the debate on reddit was concerning Ushtar's current default look (by fulcrvm).

 

I love it, of course, and it still feels like a warframe.

 

 

 

There's some belief that it doesn't look like a warframe. I have left out reasons that I feel were baseless. My concept, after all, but here are some that I feel had a bit of weight:

 

-Ushtar still looks too human (also too similar to a police officer or military officer)

 

-His design would fit more for an NPC (Relay guard, syndicate boss, Orokin marines or imperial guard)

 

-Warframes should be more robotic, have more armor, look less like clothing

 

-Warframes should look less normal, more alien or unique

 

-I wouldn't feel powerful playing as Ushtar

 

 

 

My issue with this is that it has nothing to do with his kit, and judges a warframe's viability on nothing more than their look. It's also narrow, and ignores design options that we've seen with Mesa, arguably Frost's Trenchoat-tie, and now even Saryn's overpoweringly flowery, flower dress skin.

 

She isn't any less a warframe because of the dress.

 

Neither is Ushtar. Rather, Ushtar's design is the realization of the concept, and marries the textual Ushtar to the visual.

 

I'm open to thoughts on his look, and whether or not it works. I do have ideas (that I'll share with any artist who's up for it) on how to satisfy some of the concerns members had with his design.

[IANOBW]

I'm open to thoughts on his look, and whether or not it works. I do have ideas (that I'll share with any artist who's up for it) on how to satisfy some of the concerns members had with his design.

 

It's fine. Don't change it, because you can't please everyone.

 

IMO, it looks fantastic: the visual design, the powers, everything is good.

[Rhekemi]

Thanks. I'm happy with it, too.

 

But as a concept creator it nags me that there might be another alternate version out there that might also be great. 

 

Completely agree on not being able to please everyone.

[Rhekemi]

I'm working on splash pages (quite a few) to show off Ushtar's artwork and bullet points on his abilities, as well as his alternate equipment.

Eventually, I will see if any artists can help.with ability icons and ability art sketches (which means I will have to think about how they work visually).

Stay tuned.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Rhekemi

[Autongnosis]

Uh, i realised now that i never actually answered you on the naming part, despite following your updates. For me at least, it was mainly a question of sound. The German one sounded somewhat weird to me, while Semper Fi, while very evocative and fitting with the theme, imho is not a proper name, just a cut motto, and that's why i didn't really dig it :)

 

 

I must say your work on abilities keeps being outstanding even after all those updates and polishing rounds :)

 

 

On topic of the model itself. Well, i will start by saying that i really like it. What imho could be made a little bit better is:

- The head design. Do not mistake me, it's really beautiful, but imho that's the point where the complain about the design looking too human come from. Just a lil finesse pass to make it look less like a beret on a head and it's golden (alternate helmets included).

- The uniform itself looks a teensy bit too clothey, just as Frost's trenchcoat for instance, or Limbo's dress. That is, it's not like frames have never went that way before, but admittedly they do look weird.

 

I would suggest you to have a look at this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/404944-frost-prime-updated-visual-design-concept-and-suggestion-artwork-included-version-20-nov2015/ It's a Frost Prime redesign concept that imho is very high quality and manages to gets off the weirdness of the clothey look without doing away with the frame's core inspiration and "soul". Something along those lines imho could work wonders for this frame's look.

 

Particularly since, being so impressively designed from the abilities' standpoint, i'd say it's well worth it to polish even things like a model proposal to perfection. Who nose*, you might pull a Zephyr on us ;)

 

 

*

I couldn't resist the bad pun, sorry

[Akiryx]

The only visual change i would make would honestly be to make the knife overly large. Not to a silly, goofy extent, but so that it looks like it could do something. The current one is neat, but the size just doesn't convince me that it can do much to enemies with thick armor like the Grineer, or strong shields like the Corpus.

[Rhekemi]

-Truncated Post-

Hey, thanks. Glad you like the concept and the artwork.

The primary artist, Fulcrvm, is on hiatus. So, while I maintain there is room to address "too human" concerns, it will be something I will put on hold until the time is right.

I'm a fan of Volkovyi's work, too, btw. His work on Frost Prime is excellent.

The flip side is still that (despite objections) more human, clothing-like armored 'frames do exist, as you note.

 

Examination of Saryn's new Orphid skin is interesting. It is an ornate flower dress with little Warframe aspects left. Less Warframe aspects than Ushtar, to be honest. So, I think it is interesting to look at it that way: Ushtar's default is on par with some deluxe skins. Just an observation, not arrogance.

I love Ushtar as is, but if there is room for improvement, I will try to address it. Your points on the helmet are in line with some thoughts I have for an alternate skin.

 

-Truncated Post-

Thanks for the input.

I disagree a bit: it's not the size of his knife, it's how he uses it. If you haven't, check out the videos on karambits I included in the first post.

Karambits are designed to mimic an animal's tooth, so by design, they don't need to be as big as other blades to be devastating. The beauty of the weapon and the brutal effectiveness are in the martial arts styles associated with it: how you use it. (Really, check out the videos!)

Also consider kunai, hikou, and arrow head sizes in the game. And for that matter, Ash's innate weapons. All of these are not very large, but when wielded by a Tenno they damage all factions just fine.

As an innate weapon, Ushtar's karambit should bypass shields and armor, especially when performing stealth kills.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Rhekemi

[Akiryx]

Yeah, I just think maybe a BIT larger would make it look better, but that's just my opinion. I dunno, maybe it's just that in the art it's curved almost like a hook. Maybe just a tad bit less curved would do? I dunno.

[Rhekemi]

I hear you, I do.

I just sincerely disagree.

The karambit is a curved blade weapon. It mimics the tooth or claw of an animal. Larger, and straighter loses that unique character, I think. Makes it just a dagger. Karambits do come in various sizes, and degrees of curvature, but they are all relatively small and very curved when compared to other combat and tactical knives.

Please watch this through and tell me it wouldn't be badass to watch a Tenno mow through enemies with similar combinations:

 

 

The karambit's power is in its design + martial art styles built around it.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Rhekemi

[Akiryx]

I'm definitely not saying it shouldn't be curved, just maybe not so much. But I dunno, maybe it's just the drawing. That video is really kickass though.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Akiryx

[Rhekemi]

Noted. Alterations to the primary art will have to wait until Fulcrvm is available, or another artist can be of help.

That said, still prefer to work on splash pages, presentation, and augment mods since the artwork is completed at this stage in Ushtar's development. (IE: further development could produce more artwork.)

Any ideas for augments, y'all?

My thinking was to make IED an augment of Takedown should my "new ability toggle" not pan out. However, Ivara the new archer has a first ability that actually toggles (between tap and hold states, as my original concept did) for access to more skills.

With that in mind, I think I will leave Takedown/IED as is, and create other, new augments.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Rhekemi

[Xamerzan]

I'm not sure if anyone said anything about this yet, but I'd LOVE to see a karambit as an available weapon for ALL Tenno to use! Based on the video that Rhekemi linked in this post, I could TOTALLY see this style being implemented into the Warframe fighting style. >w>

[Rhekemi]

There is precedent for it seeing seeing as the Mios is now an all-Tenno weapon, yet if Typhus is created, I'd expect him to still have some innate version of it.

The only difference here is the karambit is not fan-designed by me, but it is more central to Ushtar's abilities (as Ash's blades, and Ivara's bow). The karambit is the last remaining innate gear from Ushtar's original concept (I dropped his stealth roller/Tenno latchers, and Void suppressor due to criticism). I am not keen on relinquishing the karambit as it would throw off his kit.

The ideal outcome would be Ushtar winds up with an innate karambit (and stance/combinations) and Tenno can craft a useable karambit and farm its stance.

I will consider making a separate karambit concept when time allows.

Well, feel free to comment on Ushtar's full concept while you're here, and thanks for stopping by.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Rhekemi

[xRaigii]

I think it sounds cool.

[Rhekemi]

Thanks, xRaigii.

Splash pages are around 90% complete though I cannot upload them soon due to technical issues. We'll see.

[Q-Nel-974]

I hear you, I do.

I just sincerely disagree.

The karambit is a curved blade weapon. It mimics the tooth or claw of an animal. Larger, and straighter loses that unique character, I think. Makes it just a dagger. Karambits do come in various sizes, and degrees of curvature, but they are all relatively small and very curved when compared to other combat and tactical knives.

Please watch this through and tell me it wouldn't be badass to watch a Tenno mow through enemies with similar combinations:

 

 

The karambit's power is in its design + martial art styles built around it.

 

 

Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!! Karam style !

[Rhekemi]

UPDATES:

-Enemy Chain Cap of Takedown raised: 4 / 6 / 8 / 10

-Takedown speed and damage can be improved by melee mods

-Ushtar's signature karambit has a name: Fidelis

-Fidelis stats (speed, damage, etc.) can be increased and improved with melee mods

-Combo counter damage multiplier numbers apply to all Fidelis hits, combos, and kills

Splash Pages created: (To be uploaded.)

-Ushtar main page

-Ushtar art progression pages (contains all versions)

-Reference sheet/Alt helms/Equipment

-Ushtar's helmets have names now

Planned Updates (To be created)

-Ability Artwork

-Ability Icons

-Ushtar skins that look less deluxe and/or less human. (I have plenty of ideas on how to make him look more alien, just need time and an artist)

-Splash pages to house all of the above, or updates of existing ones

Planned Offshoots: (To be created)

-Weapon Concept: Karambits

-Ushtar fan fiction

[Autongnosis]

Good job :)

I have an idea though: during Blade and Gun Tourniquet becomes able to deal damage to a single enemy if cast on that if i understood correctly. It would b nice if the ability had the same function even outside of Blade and Gun.

[Rhekemi]

Thanks.

Yes, you got Tourniquet's offensive use during Blade and Gun spot on. (Instead of support Tourniquet affecting all allies, offense Tourniquet affects one enemy at a time with 100% slash [??], which results in dismemberment and death if they are weak enough.)

I like your suggestion.

I have gotten comments that Tourniquet is both not powerful enough (support) and that it isn't offensive enough.

If I give it offense by default as you suggest (and I think I will), I need to augment its function during Blade and Gun.

This is going to sound like fighting words to the Trinity master race:

During Blade and Gun, Ushtar wraps energy strands around multiple enemies (max 4). Enemies bleed slower, but transfer health to any squad mate (including Ushtar) whose health is below its maximum level.

This is a slow heal, and not the massive infusion of health seen with Trinity's Blessing.

(Thoughts?)

Edited December 1, 2015 by Rhekemi