Ash, The Conglomerated Rework.

[YasaiTsume]

Wow what is this..... 

I open the thread and the first passive that pops out at me already seems abit too much.
I am for the Dagger bonus and the Rolling bonus, but not the smoke bonus.


Shuriken, could yu guys consider a Shuriken ability that makes Ash leap up and shower the area underneath him with shuriken? 
(Just a simple yes or no is fine)

Smoke Screen idea is awesome, but meh, I would just do away with the whole "Press and hold" function.

Press when aiming at yur feet and it will bomb yur location.

Press when aiming at an area and will toss in an arc toward target. 

Much simpler ^.^
(Might as well make Flashbang augments now tho hue)

 

 

I like Teleport... so I would rather Teleport does a forced Bladestorm on 1 target, but puts him near the target after casting.





Additional input :

Smoke screen special augment that turns it into a Toggle (On/Off) ability.

When next attacked, Ash simply turns drops a smoke bomb at his location and stealths. 

He then gains 30% additional movement speed when moving towards enemies afterwards.

 

 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Wow what is this..... 

I open the thread and the first passive that pops out at me already seems abit too much.

I am for the Dagger bonus and the Rolling bonus, but not the smoke bonus.

Shuriken, could yu guys consider a Shuriken ability that makes Ash leap up and shower the area underneath him with shuriken? 

(Just a simple yes or no is fine)

Smoke Screen idea is awesome, but meh, I would just do away with the whole "Press and hold" function.

Press when aiming at yur feet and it will bomb yur location.

Press when aiming at an area and will toss in an arc toward target. 

Much simpler ^.^

(Might as well make Flashbang augments now tho hue)

 

I like Teleport... so I would rather Teleport does a forced Bladestorm on 1 target, but puts him near the target after casting.

Additional input :

Smoke screen special augment that turns it into a Toggle (On/Off) ability.

When next attacked, Ash simply turns drops a smoke bomb at his location and stealths. 

He then gains 30% additional movement speed when moving towards enemies afterwards.

Passives: I just list the things that I like and are the most ninja-esk, but not too crazy, while also applying to Ash's skill set/demeanor.

 

Shuriken: We did consider a few different options and that was one of them, but just didn't make the cut. We decided that options we listed were the most feasible. Ash is more of a direct damage dealer than a nuker.

 

Smoke Screen: The reason behind the press and press/hold was due to Ivara. After playing with her, this idea seemed more and more right. Also, with how smoke screen is mainly a "life-saver" move and mostly activated on a dime, the default being the single press that covers Ash, just makes sense. Having to aim to pull off both of those smoke bombs would make many very unhappy, on top of slowing down the gameplay with Ash... think about actually having to aim down every time you want to go invisible, seems like it could get a bit irritating (especially on consoles) after a while, no?

 

Teleport: I basically turned teleport into a free to aim, single to small group of enemy killing version of Blade Storm. The only thing is that you can choose whether to attack or just use it to move quickly, especially with the two-stage ability. The default, single press, version just invisibly warps ash to anywhere or anything within range and hitting attack will enable a quick strike or the player can choose to shoot with their gun and then vanish again. The press/melee channel version has a special melee attack built into it (which is why it requires the melee weapon to be equipped/channeling to be used), while allowing ash to move through the targeted enemy and causing damage simultaneously.

 

As far as the turning Smoke Screen on and off, DE may actually enable that feature as it seems like they are doing that for nearly all of the newer powers and older frame revamps, as well. 

[YasaiTsume]

Passives: I just list the things that I like and are the most ninja-esk, but not too crazy, while also applying to Ash's skill set/demeanor.

 

Shuriken: We did consider a few different options and that was one of them, but just didn't make the cut. We decided that options we listed were the most feasible. Ash is more of a direct damage dealer than a nuker.

 

Smoke Screen: The reason behind the press and press/hold was due to Ivara. After playing with her, this idea seemed more and more right. Also, with how smoke screen is mainly a "life-saver" move and mostly activated on a dime, the default being the single press that covers Ash, just makes sense. Having to aim to pull off both of those smoke bombs would make many very unhappy, on top of slowing down the gameplay with Ash... think about actually having to aim down every time you want to go invisible, seems like it could get a bit irritating (especially on consoles) after a while, no?

 

Teleport: I basically turned teleport into a free to aim, single to small group of enemy killing version of Blade Storm. The only thing is that you can choose whether to attack or just use it to move quickly, especially with the two-stage ability. The default, single press, version just invisibly warps ash to anywhere or anything within range and hitting attack will enable a quick strike or the player can choose to shoot with their gun and then vanish again. The press/melee channel version has a special melee attack built into it (which is why it requires the melee weapon to be equipped/channeling to be used), while allowing ash to move through the targeted enemy and causing damage simultaneously.

 

As far as the turning Smoke Screen on and off, DE may actually enable that feature as it seems like they are doing that for nearly all of the newer powers and older frame revamps, as well. 

So I understand that yur teleport is being replace to something similar to slash dash before rework?

^ Ok not something I don't like.

I still think a hold and release mechanic is bad for Ash considering most of his abilities are better used "on the fly" 

I think aiming down and quickly bombing is not gonna be too much of a hindrance over trying to lob something and accidentally releasing the button causing the skill to either cancel, or to throw short of target.

 

The amount of Press and Holds in this proposed kit also kind of leaves me with a bad feeling.

Don't know how Console players have it, but pressing and holding while running around is abit tedious after awhile.(for keyboard default settings)

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by YasaiTsume

[BeardyKyle]

Great ideas, was looking forward to reading ur bladestorm suggestion

[AKKILLA]

Dont let this thread Die

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

So I understand that yur teleport is being replace to something similar to slash dash before rework?

^ Ok not something I don't like.

I still think a hold and release mechanic is bad for Ash considering most of his abilities are better used "on the fly" 

I think aiming down and quickly bombing is not gonna be too much of a hindrance over trying to lob something and accidentally releasing the button causing the skill to either cancel, or to throw short of target.

 

The amount of Press and Holds in this proposed kit also kind of leaves me with a bad feeling.

Don't know how Console players have it, but pressing and holding while running around is abit tedious after awhile.(for keyboard default settings)

Smoke Dash: In some ways, my changes would make it similar to Excal's Slash Dash, but in other ways it would be more like a Manic's Smoke Dash ability. When activated, Ash disappears in a puff of smoke and (for all essential purposes) would Slash Dash to the targeted enemy or area and reappear in another puff of smoke. These puffs of smoke can act like small smoke screens in that they stagger the target. This gives Ash more use out of his invisibility (and smoke theme) and a means of quick travel, albeit over a very short distance. In what I can surmise, the length of time it would take to zoom to a target would be 2 seconds or less.

 

Dash Strike (Channelling plus C Trigger press): This secondary move is the most like Slash Dash because this incorporates the strike. In plain terms, Ash channels and empowers his entire frame with smoke, turns invisible, dashes, strikes and smokes through the wound he makes and reforms on the other side of the enemy. He does this with such speed and force that it staggers the target and makes it seems like he can move through solid objects when in fact he is creating an opening for himself to traverse.

 

As far as the press and holds, there is only one that "I" proposed, The Smoke Screen throw away. Dash Strike requires channelling to be active in order to be used, but thats not the same as a press and hold. Dash Strike = Equipped Melee, Hold Channelling, press C trigger. Rinse and repeat. Shuriken can just be held down if desired to throw out a ton of blades consecutively, but doesn't require it.

 

Trust me when I say that having to aim every smoke bomb, precisely, with a controller would be very bothersome to say the least.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Great ideas, was looking forward to reading ur bladestorm suggestion

Thank you for your support! 

 

Sorry about the lack of Blade Storm. I/we do have ideas, but we felt it unnecessary or too preemptive since it is being reworked as we speak.

Dont let this thread Die

I'm hoping it won't. Took a while to put this all together. A good bit of work.

[Drufo]

Actually I don't see why to change Shuriken and Teleport. Those are the abilities that work better, thought I appreciate the idea of the hold mechanic in Shuriken for marking enemies (in addition to the system we have now), and Teleport needs to be more stealth firendly by not alerting enemies just a millisecond before you kill them (maybe, on non-alerted enemies, Ash teleports always behind them?).

Smoke bomb should be what the name suggest: a smoke bomb, just like you suggested. The finisher thing it not necessary, since it would be a utility ability and would slow things down for melee guys (also: there's teleport for finishers). For that ability I'd like the animation include a swirl of smoke around his left arm (the smokey one) that concentrate in his hand to create the "bomb".

As for Blade Storm, I don't have a concrete idea. Still, I know I don't want it to become a sort of "Exalted Blade", since we have 4 frames with that kind of ultimate and I think it's enough (also, I don't like to be restricted in my weapon choice: if I bring a staff in mission, I don't want to use a sword, or else, I would have brought a sword)

 

ps as a passive, it could be nice a sort of perma-semi-Eclipse: when you're in the shadows, you're harder to see and enemy accuracy is reduced

Edited February 4, 2016 by Drufo

[Marbelik]

Daaam, dat Genji from Overwatch is insane. Would love to see something like his skill set in warframe or in Ash. If we could get a better energy reduction while blocking it could have the same effect as Genji's block and could help on melee only for most frames.

 

Aside from that i like your rework ideas. Thanks for putting time and effort in this post, hope some of them get into an Ash future rework (if there is a rework).

[AKKILLA]

Daaam, dat Genji from Overwatch is insane. Would love to see something like his skill set in warframe or in Ash. If we could get a better energy reduction while blocking it could have the same effect as Genji's block and could help on melee only for most frames.

 

Aside from that i like your rework ideas. Thanks for putting time and effort in this post, hope some of them get into an Ash future rework (if there is a rework).

 

Tell Me Genji's Swift Strike isnt a better version of Excaliburs Slash Dash? :)

 

A bit off topic srry but I was watching the Overwatch trailer and now I wanna download it, dont know where to download this tho :( 

Can anyone here help Me? It looks like some fun to get into

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Daaam, dat Genji from Overwatch is insane. Would love to see something like his skill set in warframe or in Ash. If we could get a better energy reduction while blocking it could have the same effect as Genji's block and could help on melee only for most frames.

 

Aside from that i like your rework ideas. Thanks for putting time and effort in this post, hope some of them get into an Ash future rework (if there is a rework).

Yea, I know, Genji is so awesome. Wreathed in smoke and able to teleport, that is basically Ash. I considered making an option for Ash where I replaced Shuriken with Genji's power blocking move which would not only let him deflect all incoming projectiles regardless of strength/type, but would also allow him to reflect it back at the enemy with increased damage/speed/force. It would have been a drain ability like Wukong's Defy or Valkyr's Hysteria and would be able to be activated while utilizing other abilities for interesting bonuses.

- Like activating it, then smoke dashing around and not getting hit at all and that which does manage to get too close gets auto-power reflected back at its source. This would consume more energy, but would make for a good life-saving tool.

 

I chose to leave it out because it would have limited Ash to a melee only capable frame... but would have been cool.

 

Thanks very much for your support!

Edited February 5, 2016 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(PSN)LordJFA]

It's been forever since DE has said anything about ash's bladestorm rework. I sincerely hope they consider some of the ideas listed in this thread for the rework.

[AKKILLA]

What I love about  

(PS4)GR13V4NC3

  and DragonBlack is how consistent they are with the Love and Good Ideas for Ash, They are alot clunked up but they main substance is there. Shuriken visual aesthetic, Damage scaling from mods for end game, Target enemies better track enemies more precisely, charged shuriken, rapid fire shuriken (Cuz Hikou prime)

Smoke Screen Choke Cloud, Cloud Range Increase, Cloud works as CC and opens enemies to Finishers (Cuz Spoiler)

 

Teleport Smoke Dash (Free-aim teleport) Short ranged ofcoarse, Small smoke bomb drops at Enemies teleported to (Only affects one enemy) 

 

Bladestorm ofcoarse is where people have the biggest problem with creating a good idea for and I have only heard 3 good Bladestorm references.

 

Your Ninjutsu is one of em but I only dont like is the different weapon Idea's I do think its great but I think keeping it as just Ash/clones using the Hidden Blades is fine, Making the Blades redesigned similar to Zeds aesthetically its same just Ashs hidden Blades look too short visually.

Zed and Ash share similar concepts, If You play League You know this guy ^^^ Ash and Zed both 1st attack is Shuriken and there Ulti is basically the same except Ash targets 18 enemies Zeds only 1 target but both summon 2 clones and the attack is somewhat similar. I honestly think this idea rung a bell thinking about Farming Regular Ash from Grineer Manics, then this video rung a bell.

Manics move and act like Ash in Bladestorm, Teleporting and attacking swiftly and disappearing again, very elusive creatures. Why not make Bladestorm resemble that in a way? Yes a Stance Ulti, or as Punned the Exalted Bladestorm basically. its the best idea i think soo far not because its My iea and Threads topic but it keeps Bladestorm in theme makes it Interactive and ofcoarse Bladestorm should be a stance, theres synergy between Ulti and 1-2-3 as well as all the same mechanics as now except you chose what to do no more endless uncontrollable animations and no more allies down and cryopods destroyed. I think this is what Ashs Bladestorm really needs.all the other ideas I totally agree with will make Ash what he should have been since day one. He shouldnt be a solo Frame, Ninjas worked in squads and Smoke Screen should be his actual CC and utility. The duration on smoke screen is fine, some folks need to learn how to Mod ash or just remove all there mods and remod him. You honestly dont need Vitality, i use to run it and learned from Koga he runs Ash squishy but has always least damage taken in almost every game. I dont see no point in running Ash with Energy Siphon aura, I never change Steel Charges Aura. and I never use Seeking Shuriken or Rising Storm unless Im bored but I usually run Smoke Shadow to teach others how Great it is, most dont know still to this Day how Vital this mod is to Team mates and a Good Smoke Shadow Ash is a Master Ash.

 

Do Youre Research on SMOKE SHADOW and the passive it provides to Allies :)

 

A smoke shadow Ash is a Real Team Player

[Tozeas]

Bumping for the Ash master race.

[AKKILLA]

Bumping for the Ash master race.

 

Glad to see this thread still surviving and prosperous. Also glad to see the Vets (Founders) showing support instead of yelling...

 

LOKI MASTER RACE

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Glad to see this thread still surviving and prosperous. Also glad to see the Vets (Founders) showing support instead of yelling...

 

LOKI MASTER RACE

 

Ditto! 

Edited February 17, 2016 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[AKKILLA]

Ditto! 

 

I wish You werent on Console :(

 

Id love to play with You and see Your Ash play style.

Edited February 17, 2016 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I wish You werent on Console :(

 

Id love to play with You and see Your Ash play style.

I know, as do I.

 

I kill everything, invisibly ;P

Edited February 17, 2016 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Tenedranox]

I wish You werent on Console :(

 

Id love to play with You and see Your Ash play style.

Ash playstyle? what is this supposed to be? pressing 4 XD unfornutaley our suggestions havent hit the development yet, so atm there isnt that much playstyle possibilities with ash....

[Bloodskll]

My only suggestion for ashes smoke dash is to add clones and have his dash have a width to it, so that if they're are multiple enemies the clones do original bladestorm finishers while ash does his own personal finisher.

The reason why I suggest is because if your dealing with large mobs going to each person one by one could get just as boring as ash's bladestorm is now, and would allow ash to have a tribute to his original blade storm.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Bloodskll

[dodyouserious]

take my +1

[AKKILLA]

Can we get a Dash Teleport like this?

 

 

BTW yall notice the Exalted Blade waves the enemy launched? (1.30 seconds) xD

[enJohneering]

I see yall have got another thread together. Maybe a couple of you will remember me from past threads. 

I'm surprised that you haven't added any bladestorm rework material, as any progress on that front hasn't been mentioned in a couple of devstreams now and DE Steve seemed nervous to go forward last I saw it talked about, so it might be on hold right now. Maybe I'm just uninformed. 

I'm not sure how useful a 10m teleport would be, considering how fast I run and bullet jump. Both can already can cover that distance without taking energy or breaking the flow of my parkour. However, a small smoke cloud and free aim are fantastic additions if it was able to move around 25m. Then it could keep it's higher energy cost and still be useful. 

 

Now bear with me, because I just had a radical redesign for smoke screen based on a very uncommonly used game mechanic in Warframe.

Do you know how if you are playing sniper, or in a mission there is a maximum distance where enemies can 'see' you? Specifically, most mobs have a certain range where they are considered close enough to target your location and attack? Well, wouldn't it be nice if when inside or behind your smoke screen, mobs had to get closer in order to attack you. Much much closer. Think invisibility but with a range attached. Perhaps mechanically, it would just reduce the range on every mob's weapons and sight, but the same general effect. With this change, SS could easily last at base 20 or 25sec instead of 8 and also promote Ash's skill set of stealthy melee and close quarters combat as only those targets can see him. At this point, SS could also have the same choking and other effects you mentioned which would also be more likely to occur if all the mobs had to move in close to fire. 

The augment now could simply make targets within the cloud not just staggered, but blinded and open to finishers. Very powerful CC and extra damage. 

 

Under this system, true invisibility could be focused on his ultimate, where it would be cheap and part of whatever quick high damage channeled/finisher/teleport combo they might implement. I may add another post about 4th ability ideas later, or make my own thread, but I thought I'd put this up here before I forgot it. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by JoeLorodeath
Image was link not image

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, JoeLorodeath said:

I see yall have got another thread together. Maybe a couple of you will remember me from past threads. 

I'm surprised that you haven't added any bladestorm rework material, as any progress on that front hasn't been mentioned in a couple of devstreams now and DE Steve seemed nervous to go forward last I saw it talked about, so it might be on hold right now. Maybe I'm just uninformed. 

I'm not sure how useful a 10m teleport would be, considering how fast I run and bullet jump. Both can already can cover that distance without taking energy or breaking the flow of my parkour. However, a small smoke cloud and free aim are fantastic additions if it was able to move around 25m. Then it could keep it's higher energy cost and still be useful. 

 

Now bear with me, because I just had a radical redesign for smoke screen based on a very uncommonly used game mechanic in Warframe.

Do you know how if you are playing sniper, or in a mission there is a maximum distance where enemies can 'see' you? Specifically, most mobs have a certain range where they are considered close enough to target your location and attack? Well, wouldn't it be nice if when inside or behind your smoke screen, mobs had to get closer in order to attack you. Much much closer. Think invisibility but with a range attached. Perhaps mechanically, it would just reduce the range on every mob's weapons and sight, but the same general effect. With this change, SS could easily last at base 20 or 25sec instead of 8 and also promote Ash's skill set of stealthy melee and close quarters combat as only those targets can see him. At this point, SS could also have the same choking and other effects you mentioned which would also be more likely to occur if all the mobs had to move in close to fire. 

The augment now could simply make targets within the cloud not just staggered, but blinded and open to finishers. Very powerful CC and extra damage. 

 

Under this system, true invisibility could be focused on his ultimate, where it would be cheap and part of whatever quick high damage channeled/finisher/teleport combo they might implement. I may add another post about 4th ability ideas later, or make my own thread, but I thought I'd put this up here before I forgot it. 

Interesting feedback.

One thing I want to mention tho, are you suggesting smoke screen only be used as Crowd Control and remove invisibility from the ability as a whole, or are you promoting smoke screen keep you unseen only inside the clouds AoE? 

BTW about the CC part of smoke screen, i wanted to touch a statement yyou mentioned about the augment, which if im correct you said the augment could choke enemies opening them up for Finisher Kills. If i recall the augment is a team buff that cloaks allies similar to Ivara's Cloak arrow except I will state that Smoke Shadow is actually Better.

Reason why? Cloak arrows can be Nullified (Nullifiers/Stalker) and broken, where Smoke Shadow buff to Allies cannot be Broken by Nullifiers shields or Stalkers Dispel. Im sure not too many players know this about Smoke Shadow but check out Wiki Notes about Smoke Shadow, you will see it there.

Back to the Finisher part, I think the idea intended is to have the cloud initially stun/choke enemies within the AoE and Open them up to Finishers without the augment. The augment would be great as a window of opportunity to allow allies entry to a late Cloud because as of now I mainly use Smoke Shadow to revive allies which its quiet difficult to chase after Your teammates and keep them cloaked unless if You're using mics and play coordinated but no one does that.

So far Joe You have the concept pretty good, maybe you implemented certain aspects and misinterpreted the intended idea of smoke screen, but I dont think removing Invisibility from Smoke Screen, or forcing Ash to sit in a cloud like Ivaras cloak are a good idea. Nor do I think changing Smoke Shadows function a good idea.

Smoke Shadow is my favorite augment because its his one and only Team augment which he is known to be Mr.Solo in a Multiplayer Game. Seeking Shuriken is ok but I think the effects should have been innate. Rising Storm is the one augment I never liked, now with BODY COUNT present it basically $hits on Rising Storm. I honestly would prefer that augment trashed and give Ash a Teleport augment, which is his one ability thats under used, Teleport could use another function, something more other then x% Finisher dmg or useless Combo multipliers. One thread I loved was this Phantom Teleport Koga made I cant find it for some reason but I may remake that thread as it was an awesome concept. Its basically a CC clone left behind at your last known position, similar to Saryns Molt but lasts for (2/3/4secs) and detonates stunning/choking enemies opening Finishers. One clone can be available per Teleport and I would say Maxed 3 enemies stunned per Clone soo it isnt Over Powered. This augment would work great with Free-aim teleports as you could spam Teleports leaving behind clones and stunning enemies constantly for strategic executions.

As for Your Bladestorm suggestion, check My thread. I explain basically the majority of this threads concepts since I am a Fan of the majority of this threads great ideas I wanted to promote and keep those Ideas alive. but I based My thread mainly around Bladestorm and added synergy with his entire kit within Bladestorm.

 

Check it out and give Me your feed back. Sorry OP for slightly Hijacking. My intentions are Noble :)

Shinobi Noble stance^

[enJohneering]

6 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Interesting feedback.

One thing I want to mention tho, are you suggesting smoke screen only be used as Crowd Control and remove invisibility from the ability as a whole, or are you promoting smoke screen keep you unseen only inside the clouds AoE? 

- snip -

So far Joe You have the concept pretty good, maybe you implemented certain aspects and misinterpreted the intended idea of smoke screen, but I dont think removing Invisibility from Smoke Screen, or forcing Ash to sit in a cloud like Ivaras cloak are a good idea. Nor do I think changing Smoke Shadows function a good idea.

- snip (only good augment is smoke cloud) teleport idea -

- snip (check my thread) -

Check it out and give Me your feed back. Sorry OP for slightly Hijacking. My intentions are Noble :)

I am suggesting that instead of pure invisibility as we know it, Ash uses a obfuscation ability, which is basically invisibility past a certain distance from Ash/allies, and something like reduced mob accuracy/damage inside that distance. Also, this smoke debuff would be in effect any time Ash/Allies or the target is in the cloud, or the cloud is between Ash and the target. The trick is to think of it as REAL smoke that just doesn't effect the visibility of allies. 

I have the world's worst art skills, but I hope the idea is simple enough to carry through:

Think of it as a mobile cataclysm of invisibility that still allows you to shoot at targets as normal. You are invisible down to a certain radius, where it transforms to just a high damage reduction ability. It is unique because it works even if you are outside the cloud as long as the cloud is between you and the target, so placed in a doorway it can protect an entire room, while in the open it functions like a less effective but wider range ivara arrow. This would of course work for all party members. Finally, the cloud itself would stagger enemies as our current SS (slightly longer duration), but with the augment would leave them staggered and open to finishers. 

 

Now with this, the 4th ability could be the more mobile ability, similar to your concept of invisibilty and increased parkour/sprint speed with fast finishers. I would suggest that instead of a stance allowing 'E' to be a teleport+finisher if out of melee range instead of a simple attack would be better, because currently I can just run naramon+crit-melee to run as fast as I please invisible around the map 1-hit red crit murdering everything exactly as you describe with any frame. Increased mobility and finisher damage would be a worth even a fairly high energy cost if teleport was rolled in. Think much higher damage channeled landslide + invis. If it did stacking damage on a window of opportunity, so much the better.