Would It Be Bad If Element Mods Were Exclusive?

[potatofamine]

It would just make the game less fun. I don't care about the logic or reasoning you use to justify it, it would just flat out make the game less fun. And isn't fun the whole point?

[Bakim0n0]

The problem people are having here, in terms of saying we do too much damage etc etc etc...

Damage is largely irrelevant in the bulk of content, which is why a decently modded and tater'ed weapon will breeze through everything no worries.

However... there are specific, select and high-end content that *needs* that extra damage to be accessible to the majority of players who get there and toning down damage overall robs game-life from those players who will see the top-end content as just way too hard and not worth doing. We already run into a problem where difficulty like Kappa and Kieste are where the bulk of players stop wanting to play and dialing down damage more would further thin the pool for those that want to push the limits.

[Lumireaver]

It would just make the game less fun. I don't care about the logic or reasoning you use to justify it, it would just flat out make the game less fun. And isn't fun the whole point?

 

What would make the game "less fun?" Having more variety with regards to mod selection? I do not follow.

 

The problem people are having here, in terms of saying we do too much damage etc etc etc...

Damage is largely irrelevant in the bulk of content, which is why a decently modded and tater'ed weapon will breeze through everything no worries.

However... there are specific, select and high-end content that *needs* that extra damage to be accessible to the majority of players who get there and toning down damage overall robs game-life from those players who will see the top-end content as just way too hard and not worth doing. We already run into a problem where difficulty like Kappa and Kieste are where the bulk of players stop wanting to play and dialing down damage more would further thin the pool for those that want to push the limits.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Ideally damage numbers would be similar, if perhaps more situational.

 

...Are you saying the game is to hard?

[Bakim0n0]

What would make the game "less fun?" Having more variety with regards to mod selection? I do not follow.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Ideally damage numbers would be similar, if perhaps more situational.

 

...Are you saying the game is to hard?

Without an adjustment to how much damage each elemental mod actually gives the damage would not be similar at all.

I did not say the game is too hard, I commented on people saying we do too much damage. For the bulk of the game, fighting enemies below level 50? Yeah, we do tons of damage and the content is generally trivial, but it keeps the more casual players active and enjoying the game. If we dialed down the damage considerably you'd further push back those types of players.

It's not that the game is too hard, just HIGH END CONTENT like wave 50+ on defense etc where you start seeing enemies in triple digit levels that is where damage becomes VERY important.

[potatofamine]

What would make the game "less fun?" Having more variety with regards to mod selection? I do not follow.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Ideally damage numbers would be similar, if perhaps more situational.

 

...Are you saying the game is to hard?

 

If you wanted to play like this, you could start doing it right now! You can choose to only use one elemental mod, or just not put a potato in your weapon.

 

The problem is that you want to force everyone else to play like this too. That is not fun.

[Lumireaver]

Without an adjustment to how much damage each elemental mod actually gives the damage would not be similar at all.

I did not say the game is too hard, I commented on people saying we do too much damage. For the bulk of the game, fighting enemies below level 50? Yeah, we do tons of damage and the content is generally trivial, but it keeps the more casual players active and enjoying the game. If we dialed down the damage considerably you'd further push back those types of players.

It's not that the game is too hard, just HIGH END CONTENT like wave 50+ on defense etc where you start seeing enemies in triple digit levels that is where damage becomes VERY important.

 

I believe a number of suggestions to prevent an across-the-board damage reduction have already been tossed around in this very topic. Someone said crits could be tweaked to fill in the gap, individual elements could also be adjusted and so forth. Not to mention those 'anti-faction' mods of dubious veracity which have been posted a few times now.

 

If you wanted to play like this, you could start doing it right now! You can choose to only use one elemental mod, or just not put a potato in your weapon.

 

The problem is that you want to force everyone else to play like this too. That is not fun.

 

I think you're missing the point. The idea is not to restrict choice, but to win it back. Currently there is only one effective build. That is not fun.

[MoonicusMaximus]

The only bad thing that would happen if elemental mods were exclusive would be damage would be lower across the board, and people would have to be switching their mods to match specific factions. You could say that it would increase the difficulty by lowering the maximum damage achievable, and I personally wouldn't mind finding ways to increase the challenge, even if it means slightly nerfing out own ability to produce the often-times ridiculous amounts of damage that make a majority of the game trivial.

 

I doubt a change like this would go over well without some sort of compensation. Maybe making elemental mods higher in rank, like Damage mods are currently. That way, as we are forced to only choose one element, we can make that element extremely powerful. Cold elemental mods would need to be relooked at as well.

[Frendh]

They should make the exclusive.

But buff them at the same time so they're around the same damage if you had all three.

This would often make them really overpowered. Imagine doing infested defense with a maxed out firemod that does three times the damage compared to the current one. Or a corpus defense mission with an electrical mod. You get the point. Since missions rarely mix factions it becomes really easy to take advantage of the enemy weaknesses.

[Notso]

Currently elemental mods are part of the "Always Equip" category, except for electrcity if you're fighting Ancients. That still leaves 5 damage mods which you should never not equip, leaving space for only 3 more mods [1 of which is usually electricity]. Then there's fire rate [a must have], and reload speed [a must have on most weapons]. So basically most of the time you don't have any room for different mods.

 

What am I getting at? The current mod system doesn't really allow you to stay competative at uber-high levels [i.e. Endless Defence] without equipping these must-have mods. While it is true that if you only allowed the player to equip one elemental damage mod at a time you would open up many more options in terms of what mods you can put on, it would also mean that everybody would always take AP. And on top of that there are not enough different mods for rifles and pistols that you could put in the now empty mod slots [except Eagle Eye].

 

Basically, it would be better to limit it to 2 or 3 elemental damage mods at a time, or as more elements are introduced make some incompatible with others. Currently you could say Fire cannot be equipped at the same time as Ice, and Electricity cannot be equipped at the same time as AP. For example.

[dEEkAy2k9]

instead of making elemental mods add some extra damage of that element, elemental mods should change YOUR actual attacking type.

 

so you equip serration on your rifle and fire, now you are doing ONLY fire damage. not base + ap + fire + electric + ice

this would make you think through your build, take damage + fire on your main, fire on the melee weapon and maybe electric/ice on your secondary.

 

right now everyone stacks just each damage mod and fills the blanks with other stuff. people just run damage + multishot + all elements (wow, very thought through indeed...). you do not have any disadvantages when you take all those elemental mods with you, no matter what resistances your enemies have got since it just bonus elemental damage and not modified elemental damage.

 

furthermore the elemental resistances on enemies should be revised as AP damage is a must have mod on every enemy while electric/fire/ice is not (well ice slows so maybe just for the effect).

[MoonicusMaximus]

instead of making elemental mods add some extra damage of that element, elemental mods should change YOUR actual attacking type.

 

so you equip serration on your rifle and fire, now you are doing ONLY fire damage. not base + ap + fire + electric + ice

this would make you think through your build, take damage + fire on your main, fire on the melee weapon and maybe electric/ice on your secondary.

 

right now everyone stacks just each damage mod and fills the blanks with other stuff. people just run damage + multishot + all elements (wow, very thought through indeed...). you do not have any disadvantages when you take all those elemental mods with you, no matter what resistances your enemies have got since it just bonus elemental damage and not modified elemental damage.

 

furthermore the elemental resistances on enemies should be revised as AP damage is a must have mod on every enemy while electric/fire/ice is not (well ice slows so maybe just for the effect).

 

That's an interesting idea. How would elemental mods calculate the damage in relation to the level of the mod itself? Are you saying that, with your idea, a rank 1 Hellfire mod will, say, convert 20% of your damage (base + multiplier white damage) to fire damage, while a maxed rank 5 Hellfire will convert 100% of your white damage to fire damage? Or perhaps not a complete change, say rank 1 at 10% while max rank is 50%?

 

That system might make switching between mods a bit more of a decision rather than a must, but it would also nerf damage pretty hard across the board and make serration/point blank/hornet strike mods the mainstay in damage increases.

[dEEkAy2k9]

That's an interesting idea. How would elemental mods calculate the damage in relation to the level of the mod itself? Are you saying that, with your idea, a rank 1 Hellfire mod will, say, convert 20% of your damage (base + multiplier white damage) to fire damage, while a maxed rank 5 Hellfire will convert 100% of your white damage to fire damage? Or perhaps not a complete change, say rank 1 at 10% while max rank is 50%?

 

That system might make switching between mods a bit more of a decision rather than a must, but it would also nerf damage pretty hard across the board and make serration/point blank/hornet strike mods the mainstay in damage increases.

 

You speak about some valid points there. Haven't really much thought about the numbers (tbh, i forgot there are ranks xD).

For a quick answer, fully ranked Fire/Ice/Electric/AP should give you 120% so it converts all your damage to fire for example and because you modded it to the max you get 20 bonus damage on top of that, but of course you are only doing fire damage now, not a split from base + serration + elemental damage.

 

Sure, it would nerf damage a lot and would need DE to rebalance enemies and their resistances. Grineer are heavily armored and get about 200% from AP (as it passes through armor) but only 25% from electric (or even 0%). Picking your loadout according to the mission you are attending would bring more depth into this great game. You would also need to balance your secondary and melee for odd occurances where you fight more then one faction.

[LeAtlas]

To think cryo element is rare enough... so how about no?

[Lumireaver]

To think cryo element is rare enough... so how about no?

 

You seem to have misconstrued my intention. In this case exclusivity has nothing to do with rarity, rather, it has to do with the ability/effectiveness of slotting multiple elemental mods at the same time.

[ArsVampyre]

Yes, it would be bad as things currently stand. Personally, I prefer seeing the elemental effects at the same time, especially the graphical affects on my melee weapon.

I could see part of it being useful if say, combined damage from fire and ice on the same enemy did extra damage. Then it might be smart to have one person in the cell run with fire, and another with ice, and for them to get 'shatter' damage or something. Maybe have a similar affect from AP and Electrical damage.

But frankly, I'd still prefer the way it is now for that. For many of the weapons, most of the mods just suck. I don't need a bigger magazine that only lets me hold one more shot, or a doubled chance for a critical hit from .5% to 1% or soemthing equally worthless. I'd rather keep fire, ice, electrical, and AP damage on my weapons all the time.

[Sixty5]

Only elemental mods that are worth it are Cryo and AP. AP modifiers don't decrease as enemies level up, and Cryo will always slow, as well as taking down shields faster (since shields have no DR)

 

Means you can stack more useful stuff like ammo capacity.