New Quest: The Second Dream [U18 Megathread/spoilers]

[SALTLIGHT]

So, warframes are just child soldiers + sword art online + ghost in the shell? And we control the child soldiers controlling the frame which is an illusion tt we are controlling the frame? But actually we are the child soldiers?

[Deus_Prime]

thanks for this amazing dream DE

[Artashir]

Honestly, I would have preferred it if warframes were energy beings, and we actually inhabited the warframes, or that after we were recovered we bega actually physically piloting them.

 

I am content with how things are though, PROVIDED that DE do more with the operators to make them feel like a tangible part of the game and US, not just a body in a chair: being able to walk around the lander as the operator is a bare minimum of what I expect. I would also like banter between different operators [i like the snark potential], more customization, and an option [partially to satisfy the dissenters, partially because I think it is cool] to have the operator more thoroughly inhabit a single warframe instead of link to it for some sort of advantage/cost tradeoff. [i will say though, that depending on the detail of the frame/tenno link, the people who want their tenno to BE their frame may already have their wish: if syncing is an 'astra projection' sort of deal, and the soul of the Tenno literally migrates into the frame when the proper link/proximity is established, there is no operative difference between frame and original orokin/human body: they are both merely shells containing the void-modified spirit within. Heck, part of me thinks that the stalker in his insanity killed his Tenno body while he was inhabiting the stalker body,,, and got stuck, going increasingly batS#&$ as the aeons wore on. It would also explain why getting an active warframe captured is a bad idea, as is killing it in certain ways: a tenno whose frame got vaped before they could bail would have more than dumpshock to worry about. I wonder how many lost Tenno souls wander the void]

[horcruxpotter]

Absolutely amazing... This was by far the best quest we could have done. This massive reveal was awesome, and it was also deeply emotional. I almost wet myself when the character customization appeared. Fantastic... Really. Thank you guys for this massive hard work. Please, do keep it up. Also, I'm almost certain that we are going to receive more things that get the operator more involved in the future. Right now, the focus system seems like the beginning of that interaction between the suit and the tenno.

 

[FateThunder]

Can't start the Second Dream Quest, I finished the Natah Quest after U18 update

[Dragoteryx]

All I want is the ability to replay quests. Or rewatch cutscenes. Not the intro, you know what I mean.

Based DE plz.

I agree with that. :3

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

So, warframes are just child soldiers + sword art online + ghost in the shell? And we control the child soldiers controlling the frame which is an illusion tt we are controlling the frame? But actually we are the child soldiers?

 

Yes, I was going to say this exact thing---- they turned Warframe into  game about child soldiers.  I guess the DEVs have no experience with dealing with any "children with trauma" or have any idea that "child soldiers" is NOT a cool topic. I guess they think childhood trauma and child soldiers--- and drones-- are funny. 

 

 They could have chosen to go with a dozen other options (options that also wouldn't have screwed the previously laid out lore)---- but they chose to go with traumatized child soldiers controlling drones...

 

 So, yay for DE  to  take three controversial and real-world painful topics (childhood trauma, child soldiers, and drones) and sling them all together into a single  lore bomb...

 

   I wonder if the DEVs are laughing their asses off with this seemingly Troll update.. ?  It seems like a really bad joke coming from some people who are not paying attention to the implications of their jokes... 

 

  As I have said before--- I dissent from this lore and think that DE screwed the game with this choice. 

 

 All they had to do was stick with the "space ninja wearing awesome armor" and just develop that more.. they phoned this crap in at the last minute and they know it. 

[Crescendium]

Yes, I was going to say this exact thing---- they turned Warframe into  game about child soldiers.  I guess the DEVs have no experience with dealing with any "children with trauma" or have any idea that "child soldiers" is NOT a cool topic. I guess they think childhood trauma and child soldiers--- and drones-- are funny. 

 

 They could have chosen to go with a dozen other options (options that also wouldn't have screwed the previously laid out lore)---- but they chose to go with traumatized child soldiers controlling drones...

 

 So, yay for DE  to  take three controversial and real-world painful topics (childhood trauma, child soldiers, and drones) and sling them all together into a single  lore bomb...

 

   I wonder if the DEVs are laughing their asses off with this seemingly Troll update.. ?  It seems like a really bad joke coming from some people who are not paying attention to the implications of their jokes... 

 

  As I have said before--- I dissent from this lore and think that DE screwed the game with this choice. 

 

 All they had to do was stick with the "space ninja wearing awesome armor" and just develop that more.. they phoned this crap in at the last minute and they know it. 

 

I wonder why some people refer to them as "child soldiers" or "childs" in general. Because of the size? If you listen to the voices they have, those are not the voices of a child but of an adult. Personally I think they are mature, but not as tall as we're used to from ourselves as humans. So - why not?

[Kageru]

You could never actually be something "in" the suit, because it dies a lot.

 

I think a lot of people don't like the idea of "playing the child pilot" and I somewhat agree. The child element is good for them being passive characters and lotus's back-story as "mother" but they're awful normal looking for void scarred and extremely ancient monstrosities. Though it means more cosmetics to sell which helps fund the game.

 

That said I don't think of myself as playing the child. I'm playing a warframe that is powered / influenced by the child but which in its normal state is an autonomous combined being. That's why Valkyr can be scarred and corrupted into a murderous beserker without tenno influence (because the Tenno would just disconnect, or would carry the behaviour across to each frame it uses) before being retrieved. That's also why the tenno can't use all the frame powers on any frame, the powers are inherent in the nature of the frame. Which makes the Tenno more like a "battery" and motivator (at the strategic level?) than the frame itself. Which seems to match well with the rhino prime codex and why my frame could break the sword while the operator was busy.

 

My frame blacked out and we changed to the viewpoint of the kid. But it wasn't totally inert. It would be sort of cool to think all the frames would react differently to being free'd. My valkyr reverting to a bersker would have been cool... but some things work better as a movie and they had to allow for all frames to be possible choices. So suggesting there's a "shutdown" mode is not a bad compromise. It doesn't mean the warframe is purely a shell, it just means it's powered down or disrupted.

 

I would like the ability to switch my Tenno "off" in terms of messages during play. I'd prefer to think of them as submerged in the composite being that is a warframe. Though if the focus system remains as it is I guess they could talk when they are in super-hero mode, or walk around the ship when they've parked the frame.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Kageru

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

Because the storyline was clearly designed to appeal to teenagers, and by all accounts, these are children/teens in the pods-- the size issue is a factor because we see what adults look like in Warframe, and these kids are clearly not adults. 

 

But honestly, even if they were adults, it still wouldn't really change anything.  The entire idea that the warframe is a drone controlled by an external pilot is a bad lore decision.  Yes, some people like it.. but, follow me :

 

People who like this lore = Would have liked several other less ridiculous options

People who hate this lore = Won't financially invest in game anymore

 

DE could have retained their entire customer base by simply going with lore everyone would have appreciated.

 

 Furthermore, those who do not like this lore are feeling like DE led them along via false pretenses to get their money. For example, they thought they were buying a game about space ninja (men in armor) -- but now they learn they have been funding an Avatar rip off...  Now, there is obviously nothing illegal about this, but it feels deceptive and that trust isn't going to be repaired.  Its broken. 

 

I'm on the fence. I think the lore is stupid and will drive away adult customers-- but-- I also know DE is known for flipping and reversing the lore on a whim, so I will casually play (I wont invest anymore money) into the game and see what U19 and U20 bring.... If the game reverts back to Space Ninja, I -might- consider putting money towards it again... but, I will be really really gun shy about doing it.. because, again, that sense of trust is broken. 

 

Also, it reminds me that I should never invest anymore time or money into FTP games-- I prolly should just stick to games that have their lore straightened out at launch.

 

Some people love this= great, have fun

Some people hate this = stop paying money to game

 

So-- with all that said, the reason people are saying "child soldier" isn't just because the humans/humanoids are clearly underaged... it is because the entire feeling of the game has now become childish. Even if the Operator is an adult, the entire game now feels like some bad anime rip-off... and, because of that, the Operator will be seen as a "child" even it they are--somehow-- an adult. 

[Kageru]

... There is no lore everyone would have liked. Grizzled space marines in power armour would have been hopelessly dull and left no avenues for development.

 

But really it's just "extra flavour" on top of the gameplay, which hasn't changed. There might be some who find this flavour so odious they stop playing, but that's always going to be the risk when they extend the story of the game.

[krisp]

Just finished the quest.

 

Well, it's Ender's Game all over again.

 

I kinda expected what happened... all until the character creator. That was a kick in the head. I... need a moment.

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

... There is no lore everyone would have liked. Grizzled space marines in power armour would have been hopelessly dull and left no avenues for development.

 

But really it's just "extra flavour" on top of the gameplay, which hasn't changed. There might be some who find this flavour so odious they stop playing, but that's always going to be the risk when they extend the story of the game.

 

... There is no lore everyone would have liked. Grizzled space marines in power armour would have been hopelessly dull and left no avenues for development.

 

But really it's just "extra flavour" on top of the gameplay, which hasn't changed. There might be some who find this flavour so odious they stop playing, but that's always going to be the risk when they extend the story of the game.

 

You could reread my post to understand that I wasn't saying a Lore that would make everyone happy-- just a lore that wouldn't have alienated a portion of the player base.

 

 For example, let me just run an alternative:

 

1.) kids in void

2.) kids have powers

3.) Orokin mistreat and traumatize kids

4.) kids grow up

5.) Kids trained to be killers who project into warframes

6.) Orokin/Sentient wars

7.) Warframes win

8.) Orokin get killed by Warframes either in revenge for childhoodtrauma or they learn they are slated to be terminated because Orokin want them gone now that Sentients are gone

9.) Sentients also want them dead

10.) Lotus does an irreversable transference into the warframes

11.) Warframe is the ghost of Tenno stuck in shell

 

 As an alternative--- you could also have had the Orokin be the ones who did an irreversable transfer of the soul/mind of the void-children into the warframes to fight the sentients-- and the Warframes turned on the Orokin when war was over out of revenge.. etc...

 

 

See-- that is already two alternatives which 1.) would not have violated previous lore nor 2.) alienated a portion of the customer base.

 

 I seriously doubt the people who are happy with the current U18 ending would have been alienated if a scenario, such as I presented above, had been the actual lore..

 

 The point that I was  making wasn't the exact details of the lore-- but the mistake I believe DE has made by committing to a very "backed-into-a-corner" archetype...  this is the kid of decision which absolutely causes you to lose a portion of your paying customers.

 

 **also-- on that note : How the hell does this new lore square with, for example,  Mirage's Quest Lore ---  Mirage's Quest doesn't make any sense now-- I mean, WITHOUT adding a ton of inferences and speculation. ... ***

[SilentCircle]

 For example, let me just run an alternative:

 

1.) kids in void

2.) kids have powers

3.) Orokin mistreat and traumatize kids

4.) kids grow up

5.) Kids trained to be killers who project into warframes

6.) Orokin/Sentient wars

7.) Warframes win

8.) Orokin get killed by Warframes either in revenge for childhoodtrauma or they learn they are slated to be terminated because Orokin want them gone now that Sentients are gone

9.) Sentients also want them dead

10.) Lotus does an irreversable transference into the warframes

11.) Warframe is the ghost of Tenno stuck in shell

 

 

That's pretty much what happened except for 4). And after fighting 2 wars and being in stasis for hundreds/thousands/? years they aren't exactly kids anymore even if they still look young.

 

With 10) you'd have the problem of "how do they switch between frames" again. It's either irreversible or it isn't.

[OniDax]

That's pretty much what happened except for 4). And after fighting 2 wars and being in stasis for hundreds/thousands/? years they aren't exactly kids anymore even if they still look young.

 

With 10) you'd have the problem of "how do they switch between frames" again. It's either irreversible or it isn't.

 

See, that's my problem with the current Tenno dialogue. They should be incredibly mature, even if they are still physically kids. Yet, their dialogue has them talking like teenagers (not talking voice, but word choice).

[BlueSpiritFire1]

Nujintuai, this response is directly at you, and I mean no offence, but I strongly disagree with what you've said and I would like to politely refute/debate your points. I have gotten carried away and I apologise in advance for the lengthiness of my post, but I think it's all quite valid and would highly appreciate if you could spare the time to read through what I've said. There is a tl;dr summary, though it omits a lot of the content (and personally i abhor tl;dr's).

 

I think I have presented things well enough that others who also share Nujintuai's opinion will find my points of interest, which is why I'm posting this here at all and not simply PMing to him/her.

 

Since this is geared toward Nujintuai it's lengthy and detailed I'll just put it in spoiler tag. But I really recommend to those people thinking that this lore was just a last second twist to go and read the Codex entry for Ember Prime.

 

Because the storyline was clearly designed to appeal to teenagers, and by all accounts, these are children/teens in the pods-- the size issue is a factor because we see what adults look like in Warframe, and these kids are clearly not adults. 

 

But honestly, even if they were adults, it still wouldn't really change anything.  The entire idea that the warframe is a drone controlled by an external pilot is a bad lore decision.  Yes, some people like it.. but, follow me :

 

People who like this lore = Would have liked several other less ridiculous options

People who hate this lore = Won't financially invest in game anymore

 

DE could have retained their entire customer base by simply going with lore everyone would have appreciated.

 

 Furthermore, those who do not like this lore are feeling like DE led them along via false pretenses to get their money. For example, they thought they were buying a game about space ninja (men in armor) -- but now they learn they have been funding an Avatar rip off...  Now, there is obviously nothing illegal about this, but it feels deceptive and that trust isn't going to be repaired.  Its broken. 

 

I'm on the fence. I think the lore is stupid and will drive away adult customers-- but-- I also know DE is known for flipping and reversing the lore on a whim, so I will casually play (I wont invest anymore money) into the game and see what U19 and U20 bring.... If the game reverts back to Space Ninja, I -might- consider putting money towards it again... but, I will be really really gun shy about doing it.. because, again, that sense of trust is broken. 

 

Also, it reminds me that I should never invest anymore time or money into FTP games-- I prolly should just stick to games that have their lore straightened out at launch.

 

 

While you bring up entirely valid points, I also find them a little - pardon the term - childish. Warframe is a constantly evolving and improving game. You can't expect the to have all the answers and all the plot laid bare when it's in constant motion. It's what keeps the game alive and fresh, instead of stagnant. Do you bother the read a book or watch a movie when you know how it's going to progress? I tell you, I sure as hell don't. There are questions to be answered, and you may not always like the answers. This is true for everything.

 

All they had to do was stick with the "space ninja wearing awesome armor" and just develop that more.. they phoned this crap in at the last minute and they know it. 

 

Um. What? Excuse you? They haven't 'phoned' anything in. The moon missing on Earth has been a gaping question left unanswered for how many updates? Ordis has been spouting about not 'splitting the dream' for ages. He also hinted at the Orbiter (the Liset) being 'much larger than this'. And what do you know? We got a bigger ship! The codex entires for several Prime warframes scream at a deeper plot (involving children no less, I mean look at Ember P's. Seriously. Go and read it.) The Chroma quest has that eeire voice going on about the 'womb of the sky'. Which also happens to be what Hunhow called the Reservoir.

 

Yes, I was going to say this exact thing---- they turned Warframe into  game about child soldiers.  I guess the DEVs have no experience with dealing with any "children with trauma" or have any idea that "child soldiers" is NOT a cool topic. I guess they think childhood trauma and child soldiers--- and drones-- are funny. 

 

 They could have chosen to go with a dozen other options (options that also wouldn't have screwed the previously laid out lore)---- but they chose to go with traumatized child soldiers controlling drones...

 

 So, yay for DE  to  take three controversial and real-world painful topics (childhood trauma, child soldiers, and drones) and sling them all together into a single  lore bomb...

 

   I wonder if the DEVs are laughing their asses off with this seemingly Troll update.. ?  It seems like a really bad joke coming from some people who are not paying attention to the implications of their jokes... 

 

You seem to be clinging to this 'child soldier' issue. Have you heard of a little series called Halo? The whole Spartan program that spawns Master Chief, and others like him, is based off the actual historical Spartan way of life of taking children and raising them for war. Warframe is not the first (nor will it be the last) game or story to use this plot, and Warframe, as far as I have gathered from playing the quest, hasn't done something even that remotely traumatic (ripping them away from their families). The quest has a very serious tone, all the way through. I don't know where you're getting the idea that they took it lightly. It's clear from the get go that your life is in serious danger and some serious S#&$'s about to go down. If the Loki head that gets tossed to the floor in the opening cinematic didn't get that across, well S#&$, I don't know what will.

 

These 'children' are inherently dangerous (they lashed out at the people who found them - Margulis and Kaleen (the lady in the Ember P codex entry) were injured by them and the rampant power they possessed). The Warframes are a way to safely channel and harness that raw power. In the option I chose for dialogue at least, I gathered that their parents died aboard the Zariman ship, and they were taken care of by Margulis when they were found (though I could be wrong about the sequence of events here and the parent's CoD is unknown).

 

If you actually pay attention to the Operator's words, both during the quest and during mission transmissions, it is NOT the words of a little kid. Sure they're disoriented and scared (the Stalker just tried to kill their frail physical body), but they're more mature than a child. Think about it. All this time, they've been piloting crazy strong, stealthy killers. Before that, they wiped out an entire civilisation. Read the Stalker's codex entry for a glimpse on that if you've not done so already. They're not kids and I think people need to wash off that idea that 'Oh I've been reduced from a cool space-ninja to a little baby'. The Warframes are a tool, and the fact that we play as someone who can control that incredibly powerful tool is amazing. The only reason they probably don't speak like hardened killers - or not at all - is to help us (as human beings) identify with them. The conversation I had with Lotus was quite mature, albeit saddening.

 

I also recall reading someone's comment (somewhere, I can't remember if it was on this thread or another place entirely) that the Warframes seem to be wild beasts without the Operator's consciousness to keep them in check. Rhino P's Codex entry seems to support this, though that could be referring to a very violent Operator? I can't 100% make sense of that one.

If you don't like the idea of piloting a drone/robot, then think of it as a collaborative effort between brains (Operator) and brawn (Warframe). I, personally, have given my Warframes different personalities, over time. My Hydroid is loyal, but also kind of a wuss and pools far too often. My Banshee is a stern killer who takes no nonsense and wants absolutely nothing to do with the others in my arsenal, and my Vauban has a cheeky streak that drives him to decorate people with 'strategically placed' grenades. Just because the lore says they're suits being controlled, it doesn't mean I'm going to erase those traits i've tied to them.

 

You could reread my post to understand that I wasn't saying a Lore that would make everyone happy-- just a lore that wouldn't have alienated a portion of the player base.

 

 For example, let me just run an alternative:

 

1.) kids in void

2.) kids have powers

3.) Orokin mistreat and traumatize kids

4.) kids grow up

5.) Kids trained to be killers who project into warframes

6.) Orokin/Sentient wars

7.) Warframes win

8.) Orokin get killed by Warframes either in revenge for childhoodtrauma or they learn they are slated to be terminated because Orokin want them gone now that Sentients are gone

9.) Sentients also want them dead

10.) Lotus does an irreversable transference into the warframes

11.) Warframe is the ghost of Tenno stuck in shell

 

 As an alternative--- you could also have had the Orokin be the ones who did an irreversable transfer of the soul/mind of the void-children into the warframes to fight the sentients-- and the Warframes turned on the Orokin when war was over out of revenge.. etc...

 

 

See-- that is already two alternatives which 1.) would not have violated previous lore nor 2.) alienated a portion of the customer base.

 

 I seriously doubt the people who are happy with the current U18 ending would have been alienated if a scenario, such as I presented above, had been the actual lore..

 

 The point that I was  making wasn't the exact details of the lore-- but the mistake I believe DE has made by committing to a very "backed-into-a-corner" archetype...  this is the kid of decision which absolutely causes you to lose a portion of your paying customers.

 

 **also-- on that note : How the hell does this new lore square with, for example,  Mirage's Quest Lore ---  Mirage's Quest doesn't make any sense now-- I mean, WITHOUT adding a ton of inferences and speculation. ... ***

 

But speculation is half the fun! Coming up with theories is always a blast. Where's the joy of just....having everything spelled out for you? You know, before U18, I thought that the Operator might've been a more advanced type of Cephalon. Like an advanced AI, or something of the like. It was such a relief to finally know the truth.

 

First and most immediate problem with your alternative is this: if the Orokin transferred the souls into a Warframe...they would just have put their soul into one Warframe, thus severely limiting the ability to use different frames. It would've been just like locking in a class in a RPG.

I'm thinking logically here and from a creators perspective; you don't make up an entire civilisation that's dumb enough to give these super powerful beings who are very likely to turn on said civilisation multiple OP bodies. So, logically, you only put them into one. One that you can easily control and shut down if they rebel.

Ontop of that, a civilisation that is dumb enough to give the void children several forms simply cannot be smart enough to make the technological advancements that the Orokin did.

This whole alternative dramatically cuts down on the freedom to switch from Warframe to Warframe that makes this game unique.

 

It would've been the same if Lotus had done the transfer. The Tenno have more power and more presence if they can be flexible and use multiple, replacable Warframes. They're scary. If you have just the one suit and you're caught out, that's it. But, if you have multiples, it allows the Tenno to shed their Warframe in case of emergency (like Alad V or a more pertinent example, aborting a mission after you've used 4 revives) and leave it behind as a shell. Alad himself confessed that what he found during his dissections didn't make a whole lot of sense, so it works.

 

As for Mirage, I don't understand what part doesn't fit anymore. We've always known that there were 'firsts' of Warframes. Valkyr is a perfect example. I believe that the Mirage in the quest was the 'first' Mirage and she was destroyed by Sentients that she was fighting, likely Hunhow, before Lotus hid the Reservoir. Possibly just before she hid it. Maybe Mirage was holding them off and giving Lotus the time she needed. After all, Mirage knew Lotus had been lying about sending a ship. If I'm correct, then it wouldn't have been possible to send a ship becuse everything was getting ready to hide in the Void.

 

You're probably right - the ones happy with the curret U18 lore update would probably have been happy with a plot similar to the one you laid out...but the thing is we're not happy, we're ecstatic about the one we actually got. It's deeper than a simple 'ninja wearing armour'. it gives us more to think about and chew on. Plus, how on earth would someone be able to go from fitting in an Atlas Warframe to a Mag Warframe? The drastic physical differences between the frames was a dead giveaway that were were never physically inside them.

 

TL;DR? though I really hope you did read it and once more I apologise for the lengthiness

If people don't like the way the lore's gone and don't want to spend their cash, that is perfectly fine, and it's up to them.

Just keep in mind that we've never HAD to spend money in the first place. Everything on Warframe that costs plat is cosmetic. You can always trade Prime parts for free plat when you need more weapon/warframe spaces.

Keep in mind that there has always been more hinted at. We've never had the full picture and with a constantly expanding game, that's only natural.

[SilentCircle]

See, that's my problem with the current Tenno dialogue. They should be incredibly mature, even if they are still physically kids. Yet, their dialogue has them talking like teenagers (not talking voice, but word choice).

 

I agree, the dialog with Lotus (and the in-game transmissions) made them seem inexperienced and naive. This goes against what the "frames" have already lived through during the last 2/3 years of the game.

[OniDax]

I agree, the dialog with Lotus (and the in-game transmissions) made them seem inexperienced and naive. This goes against what the "frames" have already lived through during the last 2/3 years of the game.

 

Not just the 2-3 years of the game, but their entire time serving the Orokin and fighting the Sentients.

[(PSN)kira4715]

It honestly makes Warframe feel like a bad mecha anime now the operater sounds childish/naive 

[Jakcal]

Does any one have a size comparison between the frame and the Operator?

I did a height Calc for Excalibur which makes him 8 feet tall so they could be really tall kids.

[SilentCircle]

It honestly makes Warframe feel like a bad mecha anime now the operater sounds childish/naive 

 

Apparently it's a rip-off from some anime called Neon Genesis Evangelion. Someone was really pissed about that on twitter. I couldn't care less, despite my criticism I think the whole quest is incredibly well done. Whoever directs those cinematics is talented beyond believe.

Edited December 5, 2015 by SilentCircle

[(PSN)kira4715]

Apparently it's a rip from some anime called Neon Genesis Evangelion. Someone was really pissed about that on twitter. I couldn't care less, despite my criticism I think the whole quest is incredibly well done. Whoever directs those cinematics is talented beyond believe.

Yes cinematics were awesome the ending/seeing the tenno was pure crap for a genocidal space ninja they act far to naive 

[(PSN)BYTRUBOSS]

https://youtu.be/pnCob_UDdOw

Take a Look

[Tau.]

First of all, as a fellow artist and creator I fully appreciate what it must mean to you to finally get this product out there - the realization of the image you had for the game, the way you wanted. I definitely picked up on all the Dark Sector roots, and the end it very much tied in with your original concept for it. The name Tenno makes all too much sense now too. Ship Ten-Zero. Ten-O. Tenno. We finally got to see Lotus was an actual person, that she actually had a body, all that cool stuff. Anyway, job well done, DE. 

 

As for dissenting opinions/feedback with this update, I was personally rooting for the Tenno to be something a bit more sci-fi far-gone; something no-longer-even-remotely-human. I always pray for the idea of player characters that aren't boring old human-types.

 

You guys had set a really nice precedent of forbidden fruit for me with Cephalon Simaris. Literally any other game, anyone talking like him would automatically end up being a bad guy. Literally any other game, the devs would have lazily turned it around into the player character turning on the schemer and turning it into some quest-end boss fight, being like, "Hey yeah even though I commit about a thousand times more heinous atrocities on a regular basis, I just remembered I developed a sense of ethics about two seconds ago and now think that this is wrong. But I'm the player character so I don't take responsibility for this despite having done 99% of the work here, and am going to kill you now. And then I'm gonna return to my genocidal ways like nothing ever happened." You guys didn't do that. You guys actually humored that forbidden fruit, letting player characters for once, to go along with one of those grandiose, high-level-virtue, potentially-ethically-questionable schemes. Literally any other game, the devs always cling to a dogma of the sacredness of individual life even at the cost of a greater good. You guys wow'ed me with that.

 

 

I had practically a thesis paper's worth of reasons why I thought it would be a perfect fit for Tenno to be something Dalek-esque in form - more or less amorphous bundles of nerves and smooth muscle that could plug themselves in and out of the frames of dramatically varying physical builds (like going from male to female frames, what kind of an entity would it take to wear them all with no fitting problems?)

 

As technology is a prosthesis of nature, the advancement of both neigh necessitates their integration for optimization. I was under the impression that the frame and the Tenno were in some state of integrated bio-mechanical symbiosis, that the frames were practically prosthetic extensions of what 'bodies' the organisms had underneath. The necessity for the wearer of these frames to have set muscle or bone structures of their own would be a thing of the past, as the design of operator and frame would be more efficient if the motor functions were left to artificial muscle and bone type structures belonging to the frame, custom tailored and optimized for each particular frame's style. 

 

I figured that kind of setup would very much fit how Alad and Vor claimed when they dissected the Tenno, that they had "no eyes". Why did Vor and Tyl continue to snatch up "Tenno" to dissect them and their frames for genetic research if the frames were just artificial golems - basically just more-advanced-than-Corpus robotic proxies? Going along with Cephalon Simaris's grandiose Sanctuary scheme spoke to the Tenno having a profoundly differing ethical outlook from any precedent set by human type characters, supporting the idea that they're not human. One of the Conclave Cephalons refers to the frames as "fish things," with "gills" to be ripped by his team; what could that be referring to - some kind of intake filtration system in the frames to get sustenance to the organism within? Who can forget Infested Mesa, who was said to be driven by cancerous Infested tissue operating the frame from inside (that implies there is, or can be, empty space inside the frames). And that's just a small handful of the reasons that had me thinking down those lines.

 

I suppose an Avatar/Ender's Game sort of setup between the Tenno and their frames can still be stretched out to accommodate for some of the oddities that I think the Dalek-type form theory covers better, but there's still one large question left that this setup can't hope to currently answer.

 

Why do the Infested, time and again, refer to the Tenno as the same flesh as them? Now I can let my imagination run a little wild here and theorize all kinds of crazy twists you guys could still throw in for us, like these kid Tenno forms being fronts for horrible monstrosities underneath that more resemble the cancer-like Infested, the option to have the Infested simply be referring back to a time where they were similarly humanoid and don't feel like they've actually changed that much, and many more neat options.

 

But I have a feeling now that at this rate, you may simply choose to address that detail with a Doom-condition style scenario, where something happened to people in the Void and it either made them monstrously powerful (Tenno) or simply degraded and transformed to a monstrous state (Infested). Given the track record with Dark Sector, I get the feeling that if this question is addressed, this approach seems likely. 

 

I know it's not entirely fair, how other various entertainment medias may have beaten you to the punch with publishing some of these concepts. I'm not going to say I'm disappointed yet, because there's still lots of room to turn it around into something that doesn't fall into any existing precedent. Please wow us with where you go with it from here :)

Edited December 5, 2015 by Jenemba

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Love the quest! My question is, are we(player) the operator who controls the frame or are we the frame, powered by the operator? Or as some sort of both?

Cuz i can see it being any of those at this point. (Maybe I need to read more lore?)